next brisbane coach (after voss)

[Dylan12]

Just out of curiosity, who is our forward coach? I am thinking Jade Rawlings. I appreciate we have one of the greatest modern day forwards in Brown, so I'd hope he is able to instruct Clark on how to actually play forward because at the moment it doesn't seem like anybody has in any of the games I have seen, including 3 pre-season games.

 

[BuntonRules]

I have to agree with those that thought our forward line set-up on Sunday was embarrassing.



There is no magical panacea, but the things we were doing yesterday just looked so obviously wrong that it hardly leaves you with confidence in the coaching staff.

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dunno whether it is Vossy or what, but our entire coaching effort is looking a tad amateur, or inept, or something.

 

[lionbear]

We have in the last 6 months lost our 2 key forwards. I wonder if that would affect a teams forward line at all. I don't care if you are Leigh Matthews or Damian Drum it would be very hard to have the Lions in any better position with the run of bad luck we have.

If we need to get rid of someone to improve our situation lets get rid of the Gabba trust so we are no longer running around on a rock for the first month of the season.

 

[Stocka]

Would the club have the money required in order to attract someone like P.Roos as well as the sort of decent support staff that he'd request?

 

[lionbear]

Would the club have the money required in order to attract someone like P.Roos as well as the sort of decent support staff that he'd request?

I would not get Paul Roos yet wether I was for a Voss sacking or not.

He will be only 12 months at of the game at year end. I get the feeling he is a man who enjoys a life outside of footy and if you bring him back too early he would not be the coach he was at the Swans (aka Blight + St.Kilda).

 

[Dylan12]

I don't care if you are Leigh Matthews or Damian Drum it would be very hard to have the Lions in any better position with the run of bad luck we have.

Maybe not, but recruiting and trading cannot be put down to bad luck. As an example, Sydney also recruited and traded not too dissimilarly to ourselves and probably gave up less, yet did it so much better. You make your own luck in the AFL.

 

[Last of the Roys]

It also doesn't make sense that Mitch Clark looks so ill-prepared for a forward role. What have we been teaching him all summer???

On a side-note I just saw in the paper that we had 114 interchanges vs. the Bulldogs 149. It didn't cause us to lose by any stretch of the imagination, and there is a bit of chicken and egg going on (the better you play the more you are likely to rotate frequently anyway), but it is something we are always behind on vs. the top teams.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Forgive me for comparing us to the pies but this thread is and people need to get some perspective. Dogs and Pies are in their prime and they are what we are building towards. It probably deserves its own thread to compare our age/experience vs teams in the top 8 or on the rise. Hope I've got all this right...

Brisbane:

Players 200+ games: 3
Players with 100-199 games: 7 (Not Counting X or Charman)
Players with 30-99: 8
Players with 1-29: 14

Collingwood:

Players 200+ games: 4
Players with 100-199 games: 11
Players with 30-99: 9
Players with 1-29: 5

Western Bulldogs:

Players 200+ games: 1
Players with 100-199 games: 14
Players with 30-99: 6
Players with 1-29: 11

At the moment we are down to 6 in the 100-199 and 2 in 200+. No players will be moving in to the 200+ group or into the 100-199. Green, Polec, Bartlett and Retzclaff are all likely to get some games this year as well so we will end up with 26 players with 1-99 games. Some of those players are obviously not going to be with us for much longer but it still shows we have a huge amount of youth and it's going to take time. There is far too much criticism of Voss for a list that is extremely inexperienced and does not have the depth to cover for injuries. We have a long way to go and I doubt there is a coach out there that could magically transform our team from where we are right now. It was a mistake getting Fev but Lucas and Henderson would be just 2 more young inconsistent players we would be rotating through the team. Let Voss finish off the development of the team for this year and next before we think about who our next coach should be if we still aren't improving then.

 

[Surly Boy]

Forgive me for comparing us to the pies but this thread is and people need to get some perspective. Dogs and Pies are in their prime and they are what we are building towards. It probably deserves its own thread to compare our age/experience vs teams in the top 8 or on the rise. Hope I've got all this right...

Brisbane:

Players 200+ games: 3
Players with 100-199 games: 7 (Not Counting X or Charman)
Players with 30-99: 8
Players with 1-29: 14

Collingwood:

Players 200+ games: 4
Players with 100-199 games: 11
Players with 30-99: 9
Players with 1-29: 5

Western Bulldogs:

Players 200+ games: 1
Players with 100-199 games: 14
Players with 30-99: 6
Players with 1-29: 11

At the moment we are down to 6 in the 100-199 and 2 in 200+. No players will be moving in to the 200+ group or into the 100-199. Green, Polec, Bartlett and Retzclaff are all likely to get some games this year as well so we will end up with 26 players with 1-99 games. Some of those players are obviously not going to be with us for much longer but it still shows we have a huge amount of youth and it's going to take time. There is far too much criticism of Voss for a list that is extremely inexperienced and does not have the depth to cover for injuries. We have a long way to go and I doubt there is a coach out there that could magically transform our team from where we are right now. It was a mistake getting Fev but Lucas and Henderson would be just 2 more young inconsistent players we would be rotating through the team. Let Voss finish off the development of the team for this year and next before we think about who our next coach should be if we still aren't improving then.

Agree with this post - need to maintain some perpective and wait until the end of next season which will be the test as we get 50+ games into Leuemberger, Rich, Redden, Rockliffe and Polkinghorne. After that, if there is no improvement it will be time to reassess.

While on the topic of game stats, I posted elsewhere that the team that played the Dogs on Saturday boasted 12 players who have played less than 50 games, and 6 of them have played less than 20 games. The majority of these players are 21-22 or younger. It will take time for it to come together.

 

[Dylan12]

Dogs and Pies are in their prime and they are what we are building towards.

Considering we were the top side along with Collingwood in 02-03, we have completely stagnated between 03 and 2010 and Collingwood have come full circle, won a flag, missed out on a GF appearance in 09 and are a power house, yet we are in no better shape, and to be honest worse shape, than at any stage between 05-10 and with compromised drafts, still face another 3-5 years in the wilderness. We should also be in our prime or not far off, yet are not even close and have failed to develop players more players in the 100+ game bracket. While all of that can't be heaped on Voss, a fair portion can with that disastrous trading period of 2010.

It was a mistake getting Fev but Lucas and Henderson would be just 2 more young inconsistent players we would be rotating through the team. Let Voss finish off the development of the team for this year and next before we think about who our next coach should be if we still aren't improving then.

It was more than just a mistake. I don't buy that the bolded is necessarily fact, particularly Henderson and who is also to say that we would have taken Lucas over the Jetta at the Swans or somebody else. Voss needs to do something over the next 10 weeks before we gift him another 2 years. At the moment, I'm not for or against Voss, but he really hasn't shown anything in the way he coaches, his trading record and even communicates to the media that convinces me that he is particularly the right person. It just maybe that until a Roos or somebody of similar ilk does become available, that he remains in the position out of necessity.

 

[Gibbo_88]

. We should also be in our prime or not far off, yet are not even close and have failed to develop players more players in the 100+ game bracket. While all of that can't be heaped on Voss, a fair portion can with that disastrous trading period of 2010.

I think every other trade other than the Fev trade has been good for us, not a huge success overall but without it we would be even worse than we are now. Our list would look pathetic if we didn't have Staker, Maguire and Buchanan in the team and Clarke still to come in (fingers crossed).

It was more than just a mistake. I don't buy that the bolded is necessarily fact, particularly Henderson and who is also to say that we would have taken Lucas over the Jetta at the Swans or somebody else. Voss needs to do something over the next 10 weeks before we gift him another 2 years. At the moment, I'm not for or against Voss, but he really hasn't shown anything in the way he coaches, his trading record and even communicates to the media that convinces me that he is particularly the right person. It just maybe that until a Roos or somebody of similar ilk does become available, that he remains in the position out of necessity.

I've already replied to something similar you have said in this thread. The club has admitted it has stuffed up. Voss has admitted he screwed up with recruiting Fev. We've got rid of the people that were causing problems. You can't keep complaining about the past when they have taken steps to fix these problems. They did a review and the club is fixing the relationship with Fitzroy and they are communicating a hell of a lot better to members and supporters. The club has brought some good people in and it's going to take a while. It's not going to be a good place on here to discuss the lions if you and a few other posters keep complaining about the past, it doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah I don't get the need to repeatedly hang Voss for the same offence.

The club has responded to the mistakes honestly and proactively. Time to move on. Plenty of current issues to discuss. No need to bring up history over and over again.

 

[Dylan12]

IYou can't keep complaining about the past when they have taken steps to fix these problems. They did a review and the club is fixing the relationship with Fitzroy and they are communicating a hell of a lot better to members and supporters. The club has brought some good people in and it's going to take a while. It's not going to be a good place on here to discuss the lions if you and a few other posters keep complaining about the past, it doesn't get us anywhere.

When you post something about not having a certain amount of players in a particular games brackets, how can you not discuss the past.

You yourself brought up Henderson, so don't jump on me for disagreeing and responding to the trade that you brought up.

So criticising Voss for an inept coaching performance on the weekend and some of his other failings is repeatedly hanging him for the same offence.

What is the topic of this thread? Shit, I thought I was in the right place.

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

Mine reason is lack of game plan and not shifting players around why had the chance on Sunday.

2010 is gone that is all last years crap,Maguire is a plus,Staker and Raines still uncertain on, the rest was mistakes shouldn't have kept at end of 2010.

 

[John]

So criticising Voss for an inept coaching performance on the weekend and some of his other failings is repeatedly hanging him for the same offence.

Inept? It was brilliant coaching. If he had not coached as well as he did we would have lost by over 100.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

If someone can explain these than Ill be more than happy to listen:
1. Why was McCauley, Clark and Lester in the forward 50 for nearly the whole entire first 3 quarters, we had 4 goals..at what stage do you realise this set up isnt working?
2. Why do players continue to kick into the pockets, when we had these 3 talls down there?
3. Eade rested his midfield in the forward line to great affect, why did Voss rest ours on the bench?
4. We played a hard running, midfield reliant side on a fast ground...why was Beams our sub, and not used until nearly the end of the 3rd quarter?

These are all to do with game plans/ styles. All of this comes back to Voss' doing, any explanations?

 

[John]

If someone can explain these than Ill be more than happy to listen:
1. Why was McCauley, Clark and Lester in the forward 50 for nearly the whole entire first 3 quarters, we had 4 goals..at what stage do you realise this set up isnt working?

Because if we had put Merritt, Patfall et al forward we would have had no tall defenders. The defence actually performed OK considering and kept the score manageable by the standards of the opposition mids delivery to their own forwards. It a says a lot for our injury and depth predicament when we have 1st and 2nd gamer's along with the enigma that is Clark playing as our forward line. Yes a debate can be made for Acorn inclusion, I don't buy it as the bloke is a long way off from my observations, and debate for another debutante in Retz. But what would that have achieved? I reckon the coaching staff realised they had issues but are not going to say to the press "no Browny no forward line" What would that tell the younger players? That the set up was not working very early was no doubt obvious to them as it was to us but we have only so many player who fit in there at this point in time. They are also realistic enough to know that we are in this predicament for a good few games to come and have to keep them there for continuity sakes. Broc looked out of his depth or he may have had a nervous first one but be that as it may prior to his selection the ressies watchers had no complaints from what I read around here. The bloke got found out. I would hardly bag the coach for keeping him there to get used to the pace and tempo of the game at the top level.

2. Why do players continue to kick into the pockets, when we had these 3 talls down there?

Well I was not at the game so am unable to comment on what it looked like at the ground but from my TV viewing I, for the first time in goodness knows how long, bothered to turn on this den of knowledge to make the comment that if they are going to bomb it into the talls, as it looked to me in the 1st half, at least get players front and centre when the ball hits the deck. Funny how we complain that Clark is unable to take mark, use his body properly nor read play but you kinda imply that he was not getting the ball as we were going wide in delivery .

3. Eade rested his midfield in the forward line to great affect, why did Voss rest ours on the bench?

Easy to rest Hall when you are 10 goals up against a team that has a far too young midfield that is not able to win the ball and send it the opposite way. If they had been under the cosh I bet they would have been resting key players.

4. We played a hard running, midfield reliant side on a fast ground...why was Beams our sub, and not used until nearly the end of the 3rd quarter?

I am going to call this comment a version the newly found "Proud Syndrome". "Brisbane Lions supporters find a young player and turn them into more than they are" Beams as far as I know got a huge whack in the kidneys last week and no doubt it was thought that it may be prudent to use him as a sub. I would also suggest that starting with him would hardly have made a difference. Lets give the bloke a break hey? He has one game under his belt. If we play him he changes things? I would suggest that we should have banged a few in in those first 10 minutes when we dominated and at least put the opposition under pressure.

These are all to do with game plans/ styles. All of this comes back to Voss' doing, any explanations?

I have just given reasonable explanations. I know that they are not going to be popular but I am also not going to carry on week in week out when we get beat. And as to playing the Bulldogs they have not been top 4 team for the last few years for nothing. They have not been the first finals side that has lost it's first game of the season and gone on to bigger and better things and anyone, and I include the press in this as they talked rubbish about them after they lost, are far too fixated on "you are only as good as your last game" and that is not true

I watched the Suns on Saturday and it brought home the reality that us fans, and the press for that matter, have far too high expectations of what some teams can achieve given certain circumstances. We are a very young and new side and have a huge amount of players with less than 20 games under their belts. If anyone is not expecting us to not get a few smashing along the way they are in fantasy land.

My advice is to think a bit deeper about our list. A lot of players like The Banfields and Reddens and Rockliffs just to name a couple of players that come to mind are still very very young and not as good as some of us think they are. Some of our older players like Luke are showing signs of long hard careers and when the injuries hit us our depth is stretched. I think that we should also be very aware that we pay our captain a fair chunk and that means that players like the Stillers of this world are all we can afford. The coaching staff are not the idiots some of us think they are and also know the players limitations. Just deciding to suddenly change the forward line with the back line and make 100 plus rotations just because the opposition do will not be a panacea to games like the one just gone. Getting a fit Brown Staker, Drummond and Maguire back playing would be a better indication of how the coach is going. Not giving him shit because he used a 2nd gamer as a sub.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Good reply, a bit thought has at least gone into it!

With the forward line though, it clearly wasnt working, you have to change something, Put Polkinghorne in the square, if that doesnt work put Rockliff in the square, just do SOMETHING, instead of just waiting and waiting for something to happen.

With resting the midfielders, its not just the Bulldogs, all clubs do it, at one point he took Voss and Power both off at the same time, and put Stiller and Buchanan on and straight into the centre bounce, Bulldogs kicked a goal then he brought them back on. Its like those 2 HAVE to come off because its their scheduled time, he has to adjust to the game situations.

Beams wasnt a "Proud Syndrome" The kid showed promise, so put him out there. He aint gonna learn much sitting on the bench. Heres your reward for a good game last week, we're gonna sub you. You got blokes like Stiller (who wouldnt get a game in any other teams reserves) running around doing nothing week after week, put Beams out there. And if he wasnt fully fit, dont name him!

 

[kimp]

Thanks John you make reading this forum worthwhile.

 

[chopperduck]

As painful as it was to watch, perhaps we persisted with the gameplan against the dogs because it is the way we want to play our footy, and the young guys need to learn how to play that way. We clearly lacked a link at CHF and it wasn't working, but we are in a development period now, and what good does it do to radically change the game plan during a game when your trying to teach the team to play a certain way ?

This could be the reason why we didn't seem to really change up our plan at all. On the day we didn't really have the skill level or cattle to pull it off, we were also beaten by a much better team.

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

I read somewhere McCauley had a injure and still played 3Qtrs on Sunday is this correct ?

Crazy Voss ohwell lets hope he goes Crazy and strangles Clark to play like Kruzer.

 

[Ceebee]

John always the voice of reason, thank you.

 

[Ceebee]

Bradshaw.. long term injury list.
Fev.. playing suburban footy, looking like a beached whale..
Henderson... Injured.
None of those players would have helped us on Sat. Browns injury was an unfortunate accident , as was Staker, who was our prize recruit last year. We have to learn to do without them, that will take time.
Rischa was always leaving, as was Brennan, Sherman could barely get a game last year.

We have to do the best with what we have, you cant change what has happened , you have to move on. Going over old ground is not healthy.
It is no good bringing in too many young players at a time either.We have to give players at least a chance to prove what they are capable of.

 

[John]

Beams wasnt a "Proud Syndrome" The kid showed promise, so put him out there. He aint gonna learn much sitting on the bench. Heres your reward for a good game last week, we're gonna sub you. You got blokes like Stiller (who wouldnt get a game in any other teams reserves) running around doing nothing week after week, put Beams out there. And if he wasnt fully fit, dont name him!

I am not going to labour the point as it gets dull for other readers seeing us bang on with the same points post after post but I will make this comment that really do not buy this. The bloke not only got a knock in his first game but he showed signs of fatigue. I far from see him being a sub some kind of insult. IMO it was a huge rap for his game. Positions we take on small issues like this are in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Dylan12]

I reckon the coaching staff realised they had issues but are not going to say to the press "no Browny no forward line" What would that tell the younger players?

If the footy world already knows and thinks that, surely the other 45 players on our list are not complete morons and realise we have serious issues up forward and know it too.