List Mgmt. NGA, Father son watch

[Mostyn]

I cant believe that people think playing Fog in defence helped his football.
The only thing that did was hold back his development and it crushed his confidence.
I can understand trying to improve a players weakness in the the first year or two but Cook is now into his third year.
If they felt he needed to improve in areas, do that early on.
He should be playing HFF instead of Murphy

Cook arrived at the club with the body of a twelve year old boy. He had an enormous amount of physical maturing to do.

You have no idea what playing Fog in defense and midfield did to help his development. It's impossible to know, so you'd just be projecting your beliefs into it.

 

[Mostyn]

The issue with Fogarty has always been getting himself AFL fit and maybe playing in defence helped his motivation to get fitter and serious about becoming a professional footballer....?

Maybe.

Maybe it taught him more about how defenders were going to play him. Or maybe it taught him more about going both ways. Or maybe he picked a few tricks up from seeing the game from a different viewpoint.

Who knows. He wasn't playing well previously and is now.

 

[Vader]

I think there was 1 main reason why they played Fogarty in defence for a while.

The typical Fog game, back then, consisted of a 5-10 min cameo, where he would completely dominate the game - but then he'd go completely AWOL for 2 quarters. He wasn't working hard enough, for long enough.

So...

The reason was to try and get him more involved in the game - take it easy as a forward, and you cost your team scoring opportunities; take it easy as a defender, and your opponent scores against you. It was hoped that this would teach him to work harder, more consistently. He would learn from the work rates of his opposition forwards. He would also be forced to match their work rates, or have goals scored against him. Even Jason Dunstall questioned the value of Fogarty, if he was only touching the ball 7-8 times per game. Fog needed to learn to get more involved in the game, and stay involved.

Did it work? Probably not, given how long it took for him to "come good" after this trial. Was it worth trying? Absolutely.

 

[maxlilly]

Cook arrived at the club with the body of a twelve year old boy. He had an enormous amount of physical maturing to do.

You have no idea what playing Fog in defense and midfield did to help his development. It's impossible to know, so you'd just be projecting your beliefs into it.

What, you can make an assumption on Fogs development but i cant ?

Yes, Cook body wasn't mature as an 18 year old like every other 18 year old that gets drafted.
But his skill set is basically the same as that is what got him drafted.
His elusive, got good decision making, vision and skills and knows how to kick a goal.
I feel that is wasted playing a defensive role as not many players possess those skills

 

[jackster83]

I think there was 1 main reason why they played Fogarty in defence for a while.

The typical Fog game, back then, consisted of a 5-10 min cameo, where he would completely dominate the game - but then he'd go completely AWOL for 2 quarters. He wasn't working hard enough, for long enough.

So...

The reason was to try and get him more involved in the game - take it easy as a forward, and you cost your team scoring opportunities; take it easy as a defender, and your opponent scores against you. It was hoped that this would teach him to work harder, more consistently. He would learn from the work rates of his opposition forwards. He would also be forced to match their work rates, or have goals scored against him. Even Jason Dunstall questioned the value of Fogarty, if he was only touching the ball 7-8 times per game. Fog needed to learn to get more involved in the game, and stay involved.

Did it work? Probably not, given how long it took for him to "come good" after this trial. Was it worth trying? Absolutely.

Or we did it because we didn't have any key defenders due to poor list management.

 

[maxlilly]

I think there was 1 main reason why they played Fogarty in defence for a while.

The typical Fog game, back then, consisted of a 5-10 min cameo, where he would completely dominate the game - but then he'd go completely AWOL for 2 quarters. He wasn't working hard enough, for long enough.

So...

The reason was to try and get him more involved in the game - take it easy as a forward, and you cost your team scoring opportunities; take it easy as a defender, and your opponent scores against you. It was hoped that this would teach him to work harder, more consistently. He would learn from the work rates of his opposition forwards. He would also be forced to match their work rates, or have goals scored against him. Even Jason Dunstall questioned the value of Fogarty, if he was only touching the ball 7-8 times per game. Fog needed to learn to get more involved in the game, and stay involved.

Did it work? Probably not, given how long it took for him to "come good" after this trial. Was it worth trying? Absolutely.

It was always a coaching mistake to play Fog in defense.
People trying to justify it by some convoluted thinking when it isn't there is pie in the sky sort of stuff.
The coaches did the best to destroy any confircence he had by not backing him in and he kept doubting himself because of the coaches lack of faith in his ability

 

[Big Dub]

What, you can make an assumption on Fogs development but i cant ?

Yes, Cook body wasn't mature as an 18 year old like every other 18 year old that gets drafted.
But his skill set is basically the same as that is what got him drafted.
His elusive, got good decision making, vision and skills and knows how to kick a goal.
I feel that is wasted playing a defensive role as not many players possess those skills

But we are well stocked for forwards. What we need more of is rebounding defenders/ wings, which his skill set absolutely fits (and allows us to draft/ trade in mids, not rebounding defenders).

 

[maxlilly]

But we are well stocked for forwards. What we need more of is rebounding defenders/ wings, which his skill set absolutely fits (and allows us to draft/ trade in mids, not rebounding defenders).

But we are playing Dawson, Smith and Milera as our rebounding defenders.
Hamish has recruited McPherson, Hamill, Parnell, Bond and we have tried Jones as well as rebounding defenders
That's 8 rebounding defenders we already have on our list
And now we are trying Cook and Nankervis as rebounding defenders.
I know it's an important spot on the ground but how many rebounding defenders do we need ?

 

[Vader]

It was always a coaching mistake to play Fog in defense.
People trying to justify it by some convoluted thinking when it isn't there is pie in the sky sort of stuff.
The coaches did the best to destroy any confircence he had by not backing him in and he kept doubting himself because of the coaches lack of faith in his ability

Hope the tin foil hat is fitting snugly.

The coaches don't go out to destroy players' confidence. They go out to develop the players, to help them to achieve their full potential. Indeed, that's the whole purpose of the SANFL team - player development (winning is secondary).

The coaches clearly thought that playing him in defence would be beneficial to his development as a player. I wouldn't say that it worked - but they were desperately searching for the key to unlock his full potential. Eventually that came in the form or Burgess & a sport psychiatrist, but I can't fault them for trying other things.

 

[Vader]

Anyhow... any chance of getting this discussion back to NGA & F/S players?

 

[1990crow]

Anyhow... any chance of getting this discussion back to NGA & F/S players?

With Tyler Welsh injured there's not much to talk about.

Michalanney and Tregenza play sanfl juniors this weekend.
Looking for details on Mark Stevens son the club was showing him a couple of years ago alongside Tyler as a promising player.

 

[Mutineer]

With Tyler Welsh injured there's not much to talk about.

Michalanney and Tregenza play sanfl juniors this weekend.
Looking for details on Mark Stevens son the club was showing him a couple of years ago alongside Tyler as a promising player.

Doesn't Mark Stevens live in Victoria these days?, if so his lad would be coming through one of the Coates Talent League pathways if he was any good?

 

[1990crow]

Doesn't Mark Stevens live in Victoria these days?, if so his lad would be coming through one of the Coates Talent League pathways if he was any good?

 

[Mostyn]

It was always a coaching mistake to play Fog in defense.
People trying to justify it by some convoluted thinking when it isn't there is pie in the sky sort of stuff.
The coaches did the best to destroy any confircence he had by not backing him in and he kept doubting himself because of the coaches lack of faith in his ability

Or they gave him confidence back in his game, by getting him involved again and demonstrating what he still needed to do.

It let him know exactly how hard he needed to work if he was going to make it, and he doubled down and made sure he got there.

The thing is - either of these opinions could be true.

All we know is we DID play him in defense to develop him, and he DID develop into a good forward.

We can't know what would have happened if we didn't do it. We're only guessing.

 

[Mutineer]

But where does the Stevens' family call home now, pretty sure it wasn't SA.

Let's face it if the lad's any good he'sdbe in the talent pathways somewhere once he gets to U14's?

 

[1990crow]

But where does the Stevens' family call home now, pretty sure it wasn't SA.

Let's face it if the lad's any good he'sdbe in the talent pathways somewhere once he gets to U14's?

Thats why I asked the question. No idea how old he is and where he plays couldn't find anything with a quick google search.
The post says you are right they live in country Victoria.

 

[1990crow]

Connor McLeod has switched to Glenelg for some reason this season, playing for their reserves.

 

[Mutineer]

Thats why I asked the question. No idea how old he is and where he plays couldn't find anything with a quick google search.
The post says you are right they live in country Victoria.

Where exactly, I'll then be able to work out what Coates Talent League team he would play for and keep tabs on him once he'sin the system? Hopefully it's in the Rebels zone where I can watch him live...if he's any good.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Anyhow... any chance of getting this discussion back to NGA & F/S players?

After all that I have forgotten who our NGA & F/S players are this year.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

The younger Michalanney boy playing at the moment. Looks and plays just like Max. 20 possessions so far.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

The younger Michalanney boy playing at the moment. Looks and plays just like Max. 20 possessions so far.

Who is he playing for? Norwood? U18’s?

 

[Golumless]

Cook arrived at the club with the body of a twelve year old boy. He had an enormous amount of physical maturing to do.

You have no idea what playing Fog in defense and midfield did to help his development. It's impossible to know, so you'd just be projecting your beliefs into it.

We do know though - it did nothing. Midfield sure, it had some value, but it was ruling it out as an option seeing Fogarty was considered a bit of a tweener in his draft year (noting he played forward/mid for Glenelg).

Defense had 0 and was just us panicking with a kid who wasn't a star day one.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Who is he playing for? Norwood? U18’s?

 

[1990crow]

Tregenza playing for Glenelg U16. Just the 10D.

 

[Mostyn]

We do know though - it did nothing. Midfield sure, it had some value, but it was ruling it out as an option seeing Fogarty was considered a bit of a tweener in his draft year (noting he played forward/mid for Glenelg).

Defense had 0 and was just us panicking with a kid who wasn't a star day one.

No, it's impossible to know.

We weren't playing him in defense to turn him into a defender.

We were doing it to help him develop and improve his game. And his game HAS improved.

This may have had zero to do with it, or maybe it didn't. You can't know.