Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[adelaidecrows]

That's crap. People collude and make hideous false allegations against former loved ones in the courts every day in this country.
People do it at work or at school. Police do it. Lawyers do it. Politicians do it. Everybody does it.

There is absolutely no reason to believe it isn't possible or a justifiable first thought that springs to mind.

There is every reason to think its true.

 

[Ramify]

I haven't experienced anything remotely approaching the seriousness of the allegations. I have, however, had bosses who saw me and my colleagues as commodities, and ignored our wellbeing. These allegations are an extreme example of that attitude.

I've been trying to put myself in their(Clarko,Fagans) position to try and see the logic behind this course of action and I just dont get it. I understand power dynamic etc, but I don't see how they could have ever seen this play out to serve any of their needs.

 

[Sanders]

To be fair, he was respoding to someone who said that Betts statement was bullshitting.

That does sound like saying that someone is lying.

And I quote: “Surely he didn’t mean that literally.”

And yes, that story is full of mayo at the very least.

This is the same Eddie Betts who stated as unequivocal fact that he was dumped from the leadership group for speaking out against the club. A statement of fact he cannot know.

So yes, I am saying he is no stranger to embellishment to make a point

 

[Sanders]

It's definitely plausible Sanders. I do agree, however, that the context was possibly different to what Eddie conveyed. Or that the racism was implied rather than explicit.

That a life guard went over to a very famous personality and told that famous person he had to leave because some racists wanted him to?

Pass the mayo.

 

[feenix67]

That a life guard went over to a very famous personality and told that famous person he had to leave because some racists wanted him to?

Pass the mayo.

An obnoxious racist old couple telling a 16 yr old lifeguard to kick out those rowdy indigenous kids? Unfortunately that story doesn't require as much Mayo as you think.

 

[Sanders]

Yappy entitled boomers mouthing off to some poor service staff?

I don't want to sound ageist, but I feel like I've seen that multiple times before.

And openly admitted to being racist and asked the life guard to tell a very famous indigenous family to leave because the old couple didn’t like having black people around?

The life guard went up to Eddie and said sorry you have to leave because you’re black?

C’mon.

Even if (!!!) that was the reason, no way does that get said out loud

 

[Sanders]

An obnoxious racist old couple telling a 16 yr old lifeguard to kick out those rowdy indigenous kids? Unfortunately that story doesn't require as much Mayo as you think.

You just took the story in a different direction.

Yes, it’s much easier to imagine they were asked to leave for behavioural reasons

 

[Ramify]

There is every reason to think its true.

There could be a 99% probability that it is true. The 1% chance that it isnt is why we have checks and balances.
Simply reserving judgement and aknowledging this, shouldnt mean that you need to take a good hard look at yourself in anyones eyes.
It's what separates us from the Witch hunters.

 

[Rotayjay]

I've been trying to put myself in their(Clarko,Fagans) position to try and see the logic behind this course of action and I just dont get it. I understand power dynamic etc, but I don't see how they could have ever seen this play out to serve any of their needs.

They may have thought they were untouchable, no one would question these actions, and that these young Indigenous men don't know what they're talking about or what they want. An arrogant and paternalistic attitude.

 

[MrBarry]

The fact that North supporters are basically all in unison in saying 'I'm BaCkInG ClArKsOn AlL ThE WaY' kind of epitomises why this happened (allegedly) in the first place.

It's disgusting that they are backing him in just because they want him to come in as coach. I think we were all in unison here in saying anyone involved in the camp should go.

 

[Ramify]

They may have thought they were untouchable, no one would question these actions, and that these young Indigenous men don't know what they're talking about or what they want. An arrogant and paternalistic attitude.

Maybe. I still cant fathom how 3 seemingly highly qualified and experienced people,knowing what they knew through experiencing success ,get together at any one time and come to the same stupid as *uck conclusion that what has been described was somehow going to produce for them a valuable commodity in the form of a Happy,healthy, positive player or 3.

It's batshit crazy.

 

[Sanders]

They may have thought they were untouchable, no one would question these actions, and that these young Indigenous men don't know what they're talking about or what they want. An arrogant and paternalistic attitude.

There is no way that anyone thought what they were doing was wrong.

That’s the problem. A racially motivated rescue effort

 

[Runnin Blue]

So eddie was on live tv and told a lie ??? Fmd

 

[Scorpus]

Mod Note

The allegations made against Hawthorn and various staff are understandably sensitive and when these sorts of reports come out there are a variety of views among board members.

It's fine to share your opinion on the events within forum rules

What is not fine is belittling other posters and/or being disrespectful to those you don't agree with. In this thread or in any thread

This shouldn't require a broad warning but here we are. Expect infractions if it continues

 

[ams4crows]

Allegedly Cyril Rioli's wife kept all the text messages sent to her via Hawthorn as well as ones sent to the other indigenous girlfriends.

That's nail in the coffin stuff if true.

 

[tinman]

It was an hawthorn EXTERNAL review.

The point is that they’ve escalated this once allegations of serious misconduct have been made. If it was a Hawthorn internal review or external review and they came across potential criminal activity, what should they do?

Escalate this to the police? Or continue the EXTERNAL review?

You’ve missed the point entirely. Internal or external review the right action is to hand over to the appropriate authority to deal with the allegations, having regard to their seriousness.

So you think they should have continued? And interviewed Clarkson and Fagan?

 

[AFC979810]

I've been trying to put myself in their(Clarko,Fagans) position to try and see the logic behind this course of action and I just dont get it. I understand power dynamic etc, but I don't see how they could have ever seen this play out to serve any of their needs.

After witnessing our camp fiasco and the Essendon drug scandal - It's hard to be surprised by another AFL club doing stupid shit.

 

[GROTTO]

Allegedly Cyril Rioli's wife kept all the text messages sent to her via Hawthorn as well as ones sent to the other indigenous girlfriends.

That's nail in the coffin stuff if true.

If this is true, whoever sent this text and whoever the text was acting on the behalf of is identified, definitely it is "nail in the coffin" for that person's career.

 

[GROTTO]

View attachment 1514777

So about 24 hours has passed since everything has come out publicly, even though the AFL did have this information a week before.

Having consumed and digested everything and trying to remain neutral and impartial, I personally do believe there are elements of the story are definitely true at first glance, (possibly all of it is true), however it wont surprise me if Clarko and Fagan deny all of it or some of it and/or have an interpretation of what they said and what they meant differed to the recipient receiving and processing what they heard, told and instructed to do.

Procedural fairness needs to apply here and in fairness, I should wait for Clarko and Fagan to offer their statements on what has been stated before reaching any conclusion. Then again I am not an AFL journo.

If all the allegations that have been established cant be 100% proven that Fagan and Clarkson what they did and say, they will coach in 2023. I appreciate that here it is about balance of probabilities only need to be established for findings of misconduct as this is not a criminal prosecution.

What I think will happen and Im happy for this to be bookmarked, Fagan and Clarko on the balance of probabilities may have done and said some aspects of the allegations but not 100% of them. They may even serve a temporary suspension and made to undertake a "course" or a "program", after which they will recommence coaching.

Fagan is in a tricky situation here as the Lions may decide to let him go, however Im 100% onfident that North will stick by Clarkson.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Looking at Tex’s 6 week suspension and even Hirds 12 months - surely the floor here for Fagan and Clarkson is 12 months with possibility of being removed from the industry?

Nothing will help Hird's case for a return more than other people doing something even worse

 

[GROTTO]

The fact that North supporters are basically all in unison in saying 'I'm BaCkInG ClArKsOn AlL ThE WaY' kind of epitomises why this happened (allegedly) in the first place.

It's disgusting that they are backing him in just because they want him to come in as coach. I think we were all in unison here in saying anyone involved in the camp should go.

I think North supporters and the NMFC should back Clarkson, until the investigation is completed and a conclusion is reached.

Clarkson deserves the right of reply for all the allegations made against him. Its procedural fairness at stake here.

 

[GROTTO]

Nothing will help Hird's case for a return more than other people doing something even worse

If Essendon are set on Hird, announcing his reappointment tomorrow on Grand Final eve would be the perfect way to go about it.

It will only be third biggest story of the day in the AFL world, with the Allegations and Grand Final taking in 1st and 2nd place.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If Essendon are set on Hird, announcing his reappointment tomorrow on Grand Final eve would be the perfect way to go about it.

It will only be third biggest story of the day in the AFL world, with the Allegations and Grand Final taking in 1st and 2nd place.

Maybe even fourth biggest after our camp

 

[GROTTO]

Maybe even fourth biggest after our camp

For the record, Footy Classified took less than 7mins into the program to bring up our Camp last night.

 

[GROTTO]

What happened was people have now heard from their trusted news sources and their stance has been cemented.

I have no idea what the fallout will be.

If I had to guess, parties will deny and it will be hard for the people involved to prove anything that will result in outright acceptance of wrong doing. People on one side will believe the story and the other side will point to a group of people (including the public broadcaster) colluding for attention. Hawthorn, the AFL and past people involved with the club will come out and say how sorry they are and how their thoughts go out to first nations people.

Then we go through the same thing all over again in another circumstance.

Exactly this.

Fagan and Clarko will have different interpretations of what they said and did that differ from the allegations, on the basis of that, I believe their respective Clubs will back them.

They will probably admit to certain aspects of the allegations that are benign in nature. Like did they go to a players house to assist in their relocation? Yes, did they do and say the other aspects of the allegations such as leave a partner and or instruct a partner to have an abortion, No.