Opinion Non-Crows AFL 7

[footy4ever]

Money talks.. this “culture” bullshit would take a distant second or third in any footballers mind when it comes to deciding where they want to play.

Absolutely.

 

[jackster83]

of course they can take 'official' wage cuts when behind the scenes they are likely getting property at way under market value and a pub each for a dollar

Not to mention first dibs at buying land adjacent to where the Geelong highway is being extended (and before the proposal by the state govt even became public).

Not sus at all.

 

[Bearded Clam]

No correlation between hiring a new head of culture for the club after the mass exodus of players leaving?

It's the lazy and wrong analysis that points to "they all left for money".

So..

Are you suggesting lever, charlie cameron and mcgovern didnt leave for money?.. it was more about culture at their new clubs for them?..

Please tell me you are so I can fxxkn laugh at you.

Are you suggesting lever went to melbourne.. a club who’s supporters at the time were constantly laughed at, and taunted by other supporters, because they could “book september in the snow early every year because their clubs never gonna play finals!!”.. for the culture there? .. at the time they were the other “ninthmond”. Middle table losers.

Are you suggesting CC went from Adelaide, who just played in the GF, to the lions who had just won the spoon and had massive player retention issues and as a club were at its lowest point in its history.. for the great culture there?

What about mclovin?:.

Did he go to Carlton.. a club that just won the 2018 spoon that year and had churned through half a dozen coaches in as many years and were the laughing stock of the AFL world for being totally shit and poorly run.. for cultural reasons?..

Come on.. please tell me this is the hill you wish to die on you fool.

 

[AFC979810]

So..

Are you suggesting lever, charlie cameron and mcgovern didnt leave for money?.. it was more about culture at their new clubs for them?..

Please tell me you are so I can fxxkn laugh at you.

Are you suggesting lever went to melbourne.. a club who’s supporters at the time were constantly laughed at, and taunted by other supporters, because they could “book september in the snow early every year because their clubs never gonna play finals!!”.. for the culture there? .. at the time they were the other “ninthmond”. Middle table losers.

Are you suggesting CC went from Adelaide, who just played in the GF, to the lions who had just won the spoon and had massive player retention issues and as a club were at its lowest point in its history.. for the great culture there?

What about mclovin?:.

Did he go to Carlton.. a club that just won the 2018 spoon that year and had churned through half a dozen coaches in as many years and were the laughing stock of the AFL world for being totally s**t and poorly run.. for cultural reasons?..

Come on.. please tell me this is the hill you wish to die on you fool.

I am suggesting they hated the club and the money was a bonus.

When has a player EVER leaked their own photos of them throwing out their club gear, because they got a bigger / better offer. Lever hated the club.

Charlie Cameron hated the club.

McGovern hated the club. Turns down a hugely lucrative contract at the end of 2017 and signs a 3 year deal with us. We take him on a fun camp and then F*ck his hamstring and he demands out.

Players leave for money. Compare the exits of Phil Davis and Nathan Bock to the three above. There was no malice from them when they left.

But - Lever, Cameron, McGovern, Betts, Sauce, Jenkins, Greenwood, Atkins, Keath, Hartigan, Crouch all left and it sure as hell wasn't just for money.

We had the money for Gibbs at the end of 2016, but we didn't have the money for Lever and Cameron?

Of course you could listen to Roo. He came out publicly saying it was all about money. I think it was Burton at the same time that came out saying the camp had no ill affects.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we had a perfect culture! 2018 - 2020 were pretty good years!

 

[Golumless]

Oh hell, I am 30-odd pages behind now; gonna take a while to catch up, sorry.
Meanwhile:
Serious question: does anybody think that McRae has got the Pies playing the first half-to-3/4 at around 85-90%. saving energy for those exhilarating come-from-behind wins? That's a risky strategy, difficult to manage, harder to execute, but the self-belief and the exciting energy that those wins generate would certainly lift a side.
Kingsley said that he asked GWS to keep some energy in reserve (hot/humid day, a stinker) for the last quarter in Round 1. Champion teams and individual sportspeople do seem to have that extra gear that they can fall back on when they're behind. It can't be an accident that tennis players like Federer, Serena Williams and Navratilova before her, Djokovic and others pull off so many come-from-behind wins.

No, I don't think that's the case, seeing Collingwood would lose more often then not. I imagine a lot of it is reputation and not panicking when the game is tight.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I am suggesting they hated the club and the money was a bonus.

When has a player EVER leaked their own photos of them throwing out their club gear, because they got a bigger / better offer. Lever hated the club.

Charlie Cameron hated the club.

McGovern hated the club. Turns down a hugely lucrative contract at the end of 2017 and signs a 3 year deal with us. We take him on a fun camp and then F*ck his hamstring and he demands out.

Players leave for money. Compare the exits of Phil Davis and Nathan Bock to the three above. There was no malice from them when they left.

But - Lever, Cameron, McGovern, Betts, Sauce, Jenkins, Greenwood, Atkins, Keath, Hartigan, Crouch all left and it sure as hell wasn't just for money.

We had the money for Gibbs at the end of 2016, but we didn't have the money for Lever and Cameron?

Of course you could listen to Roo. He came out publicly saying it was all about money. I think it was Burton at the same time that came out saying the camp had no ill affects.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we had a perfect culture! 2018 - 2020 were pretty good years!

Give some direct quotes of these lads openly stating they “hated the club”.

You’ve just made that up.

CC, lever and mclovin left for the piles of extra coin they had on offer. Little else. Its simply laughble to say it was due to culture when the culture at the clubs they went to at the time was even fxxkn worse!.

Keath and greenwood both openly said in the media they wanted to stay at the crows.. but the club, in a rebuilding phase, wasnt willing to offer them the long term more secure deals they were after and that other clubs were offering.

Sauce and betts were cooked.. it was mutually beneficial for both parties to move on.. no point holding on to cooked players in a rebuild. Betts still openly admits he loves the crows.. even publically states he hopes his lads play for them one day. Sauce is back at the club now working for it.. bit strange for someone who “hates the club” dontcha think!

Crouch left for more money that was on offer from the saints and the crows had absolutely no intention of standing in his way.. they foolishly believed they were gonna get band 1 compo (pick 2) for him!… idiots.

Atkins got offered a way over the top long term deal from the suns.. god only knows why.. and, again, another sh*t club with poor retention and no real culture at all.

Hartigan you could probably lump in with greenwood and keath.. wouldve stayed.. but the crows really thought it was time to move on with their rebuild and hartigan was not in that future.

This argument that “culture” has resulted in us losing players over the last 5 or so years is laughable.

Its all about a tight salary cap and money, money, money..

Its why Carlton.. the shitest club with the most garbage culture and horrid record of the past 15 years has still managed to attract players.. they’ve had salary cap cash to burn and have been casting out out big dollar contract lures all over the place..

You know whats shit for culture?.. the way we treated the one player you havent mentioned..

Tyson Stengle.

The way they dumped that young lad for his minor indescretions reeked of “lets make an example of this lad to appease our apricot slice brigade munching supporter base because he’s not that good anyway”..

And wow.. didnt that backfire.

I’m probably one of the posters in here that is most critical of the club.. and I’m willing to bag it when I deem its necessary..

But this “bad culture is the main reason players have left” claim simply isnt true IMO..

 

[CrowBloke]

No, I don't think that's the case, seeing Collingwood would lose more often then not. I imagine a lot of it is reputation and not panicking when the game is tight.

Thanks for the response.

The thing is, Collingwood don't lose more often than not over the last 15 or so games.
It happens so often that it can't just be a spontaneous surge.

Their reputation didn't count for much when we had them 22 points down (could easily have been 42 points or more) in the last.

 

[Truck25]

I am suggesting they hated the club and the money was a bonus.

When has a player EVER leaked their own photos of them throwing out their club gear, because they got a bigger / better offer. Lever hated the club.

Charlie Cameron hated the club.

McGovern hated the club. Turns down a hugely lucrative contract at the end of 2017 and signs a 3 year deal with us. We take him on a fun camp and then F*ck his hamstring and he demands out.

Players leave for money. Compare the exits of Phil Davis and Nathan Bock to the three above. There was no malice from them when they left.

But - Lever, Cameron, McGovern, Betts, Sauce, Jenkins, Greenwood, Atkins, Keath, Hartigan, Crouch all left and it sure as hell wasn't just for money.

We had the money for Gibbs at the end of 2016, but we didn't have the money for Lever and Cameron?

Of course you could listen to Roo. He came out publicly saying it was all about money. I think it was Burton at the same time that came out saying the camp had no ill affects.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we had a perfect culture! 2018 - 2020 were pretty good years!

These were all pushed out the door, they didn't walk away.

 

[Golumless]

Thanks for the response.

The thing is, Collingwood don't lose more often than not over the last 15 or so games.
It happens so often that it can't just be a spontaneous surge.

Their reputation didn't count for much when we had them 22 points down (could easily have been 42 points or more) in the last.

And it counted for everything once we were in that situation. We played that last quarter like we were scared shitless of Collingwood. We should have KO'd them, and that tells you these comebacks aren't the magpies plan. No team purposely goes through the motions against a group who can get hot. That's just more teams are going to have down quarters/halves.

There is nothing spontaneous about it. They're as fit as it comes, they have the right personalities in the squad, both in term of leadership and people who can cut through the tension, and they wholeheartedly believe they can win. So does the rest of the league. It's a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. After all, we likely don't go into our shells if the opponent was, lets say, Port.

 

[CrowBloke]

And it counted for everything once we were in that situation. We played that last quarter like we were scared shitless of Collingwood. We should have KO'd them, and that tells you these comebacks aren't the magpies plan. No team purposely goes through the motions against a group who can get hot. That's just more teams are going to have down quarters/halves.

There is nothing spontaneous about it. They're as fit as it comes, they have the right personalities in the squad, both in term of leadership and people who can cut through the tension, and they wholeheartedly believe they can win. So does the rest of the league. It's a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. After all, we likely don't go into our shells if the opponent was, lets say, Port.

Really good explanation, thanks .

 

[Scorpus]

Give some direct quotes of these lads openly stating they “hated the club”.

You’ve just made that up.

CC, lever and mclovin left for the piles of extra coin they had on offer. Little else. Its simply laughble to say it was due to culture when the culture at the clubs they went to at the time was even fxxkn worse!.

Keath and greenwood both openly said in the media they wanted to stay at the crows.. but the club, in a rebuilding phase, wasnt willing to offer them the long term more secure deals they were after and that other clubs were offering.

Sauce and betts were cooked.. it was mutually beneficial for both parties to move on.. no point holding on to cooked players in a rebuild. Betts still openly admits he loves the crows.. even publically states he hopes his lads play for them one day. Sauce is back at the club now working for it.. bit strange for someone who “hates the club” dontcha think!

Crouch left for more money that was on offer from the saints and the crows had absolutely no intention of standing in his way.. they foolishly believed they were gonna get band 1 compo (pick 2) for him!… idiots.

Atkins got offered a way over the top long term deal from the suns.. god only knows why.. and, again, another sh*t club with poor retention and no real culture at all.

Hartigan you could probably lump in with greenwood and keath.. wouldve stayed.. but the crows really thought it was time to move on with their rebuild and hartigan was not in that future.

This argument that “culture” has resulted in us losing players over the last 5 or so years is laughable.

Its all about a tight salary cap and money, money, money..

Its why Carlton.. the shitest club with the most garbage culture and horrid record of the past 15 years has still managed to attract players.. they’ve had salary cap cash to burn and have been casting out out big dollar contract lures all over the place..

You know whats s**t for culture?.. the way we treated the one player you havent mentioned..

Tyson Stengle.

The way they dumped that young lad for his minor indescretions reeked of “lets make an example of this lad to appease our apricot slice brigade munching supporter base because he’s not that good anyway”..

And wow.. didnt that backfire.

I’m probably one of the posters in here that is most critical of the club.. and I’m willing to bag it when I deem its necessary..

But this “bad culture is the main reason players have left” claim simply isnt true IMO..

The club culture of tenure and experience meant we were paying average senior players too much money (because they "earned it") which left nothing for emerging talent.

That's bad club culture and it isn't mutually exclusive with players leaving for more money

 

[Bearded Clam]

The club culture of tenure and experience meant we were paying average senior players too much money (because they "earned it") which left nothing for emerging talent.

That's bad club culture and it isn't mutually exclusive with players leaving for more money

Which senior players in 2016-17-18 were we paying too much to?..

Tex?
Lynch?
Sloane?
Talia?
Betts?
Jenkins?.. although he was only on 500-550k and tbf was kicking a shitload of goals a year.. plus he accepted less than brisbane were offering cause he wanted to stay at Adelaide.

All these guys in 2017 were gun players that everyone here wouldve agreed were being justifiably paid big contracts..

So… Who?.. name them.

We simply could not justify or afford $800k a year contracts for lever or mclovin..

Them leaving had bugger all to do with culture.. and the very fact they went to clubs who, at the time, had worse cultures than the crows just makes a complete mockery of the claim it did.

Same with CC.. how can it be claimed he wanted out because of poor culture at the crows when the club he was going to was Brisbane ffs!..

A club who just got the spoon, had massive player retention issues, who’s own captain was walking as a FA and was in all sorts of pain.

The whole arguement makes absolutely no sense.

 

[TheRankineFile]

Which senior players in 2016-17-18 were we paying too much to?..

Tex?
Lynch?
Sloane?
Talia?
Betts?
Jenkins?.. although he was only on 500-550k and tbf was kicking a shitload of goals a year.. plus he accepted less than brisbane were offering cause he wanted to stay at Adelaide.

All these guys in 2017 were gun players that everyone here wouldve agreed were being justifiably paid big contracts..

So… Who?.. name them.

We simply could not justify or afford $800k a year contracts for lever or mclovin..

Them leaving had bugger all to do with culture.. and the very fact they went to clubs who, at the time, had worse cultures than the crows just makes a complete mockery of the claim it did.

Same with CC.. how can it be claimed he wanted out because of poor culture at the crows when the club he was going to was Brisbane ffs!..

A club who just got the spoon, had massive player retention issues, who’s own captain was walking as a FA and was in all sorts of pain.

The whole arguement makes absolutely no sense.

The truth is somewhere in between I would suggest.

Bit of $
Bit of stinky kulcha

 

[Scorpus]

Which senior players in 2016-17-18 were we paying too much to?..

Tex?
Lynch?
Sloane?
Talia?
Betts?
Jenkins?.. although he was only on 500-550k and tbf was kicking a shitload of goals a year.. plus he accepted less than brisbane were offering cause he wanted to stay at Adelaide.

All these guys in 2017 were gun players that everyone here wouldve agreed were being justifiably paid big contracts..

So… Who?.. name them.

We simply could not justify or afford $800k a year contracts for lever or mclovin..

Them leaving had bugger all to do with culture.. and the very fact they went to clubs who, at the time, had worse cultures than the crows just makes a complete mockery of the claim it did.

Same with CC.. how can it be claimed he wanted out because of poor culture at the crows when the club he was going to was Brisbane ffs!..

A club who just got the spoon, had massive player retention issues, who’s own captain was walking as a FA and was in all sorts of pain.

The whole arguement makes absolutely no sense.

We were able to bring in Gibbs on a large contract straight after losing those players.

The players I'm thinking of are Thompson, Mackay and Douglas and then we recontracted Jenkins and Lynch during that period on fat stacks (both who played about 1-2 good years on their new deal).

We had guys like Otten, Cheney, Hampton, Atkins and Menzel on the list also fattening it up for little benefit.

The juniors in our team wanted to be paid. They couldn't because we were too busy loading up our cap on duds and overpaid contracts which is absolutely a cultural issue with how we managed the team. If you wanted to be paid you had to wait and earn it.

I'm not saying they hated the place (although it seems McGovern did). I'm saying our culture set at the top was not to give 3rd year players $800k contracts, so they left.

 

[1970crow]

thought he came across quite poor when having to read off prepared statements when should have easily spoken off the cuff. Very average and uninspiring start.

 

[1970crow]

I'd love to see a poster line up cats, lions and Melbourne lists with their market value against each player to show why they're convinced cats are definitely loaded with much more talent than can fit in the cap.

 

[GROTTO]

CrowBloke would you like some more obscure trivia?

GreyCrow

Fun Facts with Grotto

Power Failure in Adelaide on Sunday?

Ken Hinkley has not been beaten by a Brad Scott coached side since Round 3, 2014.

 

[Geoffa32]

The AFL paid a consulting company $1m to find the bloke next door

I wonder what a forensic accounting of ownership of that firm will turn up

It's not the same company Demetriou works for?

The one Port hired to hire Matthew Richardson as their CEO, also working at Port already....

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Geoffa32]

Tasmanian Devils - I wouldn't bet against it.

Surely not. We are "Tasmania" and they are "Tasmanian Devils". As long as we don't use the WB logo or something like it, should be apples.

Many companies down here use the word and/or the image:

A lure company can do it for 45 years: Wigston's Lures - The Offical Online Home of The Iconic Tassie Devil Lure

A brewery: Devils Brewery Tasmania

Coffee beans: Whiskey Coffee | Tassie Devil Coffee Beans | Hobart

Sounds like bulldust to me, doesn't pass the pub test.

Tassie Devils is not Tasmanian Devil.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GROTTO]

Apparently a female supporter fell from Level 2 at the Dome tonight.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Apparently a female supporter fell from Level 2 at the Dome tonight.

Is she OK?

Geez, on the night they are supporting gender equality.

 

[GROTTO]

Is she OK?

Geez, on the night they are supporting gender equality.

No idea, it was posted on the Blues board. This happened an hour ago.

 

[FR0GGY]

Go you lions

 

[FR0GGY]

No idea, it was posted on the Blues board. This happened an hour ago.

Next week people will be looking through glass panels

 

[GROTTO]

Next week people will be looking through glass panels

Im surprised something similar never happened at Footy Park back in the day.