Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9

[AFC979810]

ROB is important not because he's a great ruckman (he's not), but because of the inadequacies of his replacements. The intra-club match showed us just how far ROB outclasses Strachan, and the other options are even weaker. Thus, losing ROB would have a massive impact on our chances of making the finals.

No it doesn't.

Mason Cox was the lead ruck man in a grand final winning side. Marc Pittonet was a leading ruck for a prelim team.

We would not miss a beat if we put Strachan in for ROB.

 

[Vader]

No it doesn't.

Mason Cox was the lead ruck man in a grand final winning side. Marc Pittonet was a leading ruck for a prelim team.

We would not miss a beat if we put Strachan in for ROB.

The difference is the relative strengths of the midfielders they have working under them. Collingwood have one of the strongest midfields in the competition, capable of winning the midfield battle even if they have a losing ruck. Adelaide do not have that luxury.

 

[StonesThrow]

Lol at the media trying to paint Alistair Clarkson as some villain after he tears shreads into St Kilda for one of their players deliberately concussing a North player in a practice match

At least Webster didn't king hit Simpkin from behind...

 

[Coopers]

No it doesn't.

Mason Cox was the lead ruck man in a grand final winning side. Marc Pittonet was a leading ruck for a prelim team.

We would not miss a beat if we put Strachan in for ROB.

What? Of course we would.

Any position on the ground you replace it with a player that is not as good, then the overall team is not as good.

That's like... the whole reason you want good players.

 

[Vader]

What? Of course we would.

Any position on the ground you replace it with a player that is not as good, then the overall team is not as good.

That's like... the whole reason you want good players.

There's a reasonable case to be made that an elite midfield doesn't need to have an elite ruckman supplying them - they're good enough to win the ball on their own, even if their ruckman is getting beaten.

However, that doesn't apply to non-elite midfield groups. Adelaide's midfield is far from being elite.

 

[Coopers]

There's a reasonable case to be made that an elite midfield doesn't need to have an elite ruckman supplying them - they're good enough to win the ball on their own, even if their ruckman is getting beaten.

However, that doesn't apply to non-elite midfield groups. Adelaide's midfield is far from being elite.

It doesn't matter though, an elite midfield with an elite ruckman is better than an elite midfield with a poor ruckman.

 

[Vader]

It doesn't matter though, an elite midfield with an elite ruckman is better than an elite midfield with a poor ruckman.

Yes... but that's not the point being debated here.

The question is whether losing ROB, and replacing him with Strachan, would significantly impact our chance of making the finals?

The assertion is that the ruckman isn't that important, and that several recent premierships have been won without an elite ruck. What that argument overlooks is that these teams were able to compensate for their ruck deficiencies by having elite midfield groups. Adelaide doesn't have an elite midfield group, and thus lack the ability to compensate if they have to rove to a significantly weaker ruck.

 

[Faaarrk]

You could argue that umpiring also cost us one of the Collingwood losses, though those were far less certain - Dawson still would have needed to kick the goal after being decapitated, whereas in the Sydney game the ball had actually gone through the big sticks.

The simple fact is that we would have won that game if Mr Magoo hadn't intervened, and having won the game, we would have qualified for the finals.

There was still over a minute of play left if it was called a goal. Who’s to say Sydney don’t score and still win?
The fact is we will never know and we should never have been in that situation.

 

[AFC979810]

What? Of course we would.

Any position on the ground you replace it with a player that is not as good, then the overall team is not as good.

That's like... the whole reason you want good players.

There was that argument this time last year when I was suggesting replacing Doedee with Worrell.

Replacing ROB with Strachan or Murphy with Ned is not the same as replacing Walker with Gollant.

IMO Ruck is the least important position on the football field and Strachan is not as far behind ROB as many on here think.

 

[AFC979810]

Yes... but that's not the point being debated here.

The question is whether losing ROB, and replacing him with Strachan, would significantly impact our chance of making the finals?

The assertion is that the ruckman isn't that important, and that several recent premierships have been won without an elite ruck. What that argument overlooks is that these teams were able to compensate for their ruck deficiencies by having elite midfield groups. Adelaide doesn't have an elite midfield group, and thus lack the ability to compensate if they have to rove to a significantly weaker ruck.

But you have already said previously that we have an average ruck in ROB. The guy hasn't been top 10 in our B&F in the past two years and was dropped in 2022 despite being in the leadership group.

I think it was Froggy who mentioned that in one of Strachan's 5 AFL games he had more possessions around the ground than ROB has had in any one game in the past 2 years.

Simply put - swapping out ROB for Strachan would not impact our finals ambitions.

 

[Scorpus]

Wonder who that was in reference too,,,,,Jimmy Webster methinks.

Hahaha "scathing" calling him a ********er

He didn't go hard enough. Webster could have caused - deliberately - lifelong medical issues for Simpkin.

I'd be throwing around a few "campaigners" and "mother****ers" personally

Now the media crying that he used a few naughty words and hurt the feelings of some St Kilda players? Give me a spell

 

[Vader]

There was still over a minute of play left if it was called a goal. Who’s to say Sydney don’t score and still win?
The fact is we will never know and we should never have been in that situation.

Adelaide outscored them 4.8 (really 5.7) to 0.1 for the quarter, and they had barely managed to get it into their forward half for the entire quarter.

You are correct that it wasn't a 100% guarantee... but I'd love to know the odds on Sydney scoring from the centre bounce under those circumstances. I reckon they would have been very long odds indeed.

 

[Vader]

There was that argument this time last year when I was suggesting replacing Doedee with Worrell.

Replacing ROB with Strachan or Murphy with Ned is not the same as replacing Walker with Gollant.

IMO Ruck is the least important position on the football field and Strachan is not as far behind ROB as many on here think.

It's much closer to a Walker/Gollant replacement than Doedee/Worrell.

The pre-season intra-club match showed just how large the gulf is between them.

 

[StickerMan]

Hahaha "scathing" calling him a **********

He didn't go hard enough. Webster could have caused - deliberately - lifelong medical issues for Simpkin.

I'd be throwing around a few "campaigners" and "mother*ers" personally

Now the media crying that he used a few naughty words and hurt the feelings of some St Kilda players? Give me a spell

The media are unbelievable cretins.

Trying to make Clarskon the villain when it was that C0cksucker Webster who should be the one being hung, drawn and quartered.

I agree, Clarko didn't go hard enough.

If it was 30-40 years ago, Webster would not have walked off that field.

 

[Vader]

But you have already said previously that we have an average ruck in ROB. The guy hasn't been top 10 in our B&F in the past two years and was dropped in 2022 despite being in the leadership group.

ROB is a good ruckman. Not elite, not an all-time great, but he's definitely in the upper half of AFL ruckmen.

I think it was Froggy who mentioned that in one of Strachan's 5 AFL games he had more possessions around the ground than ROB has had in any one game in the past 2 years.

Simply put - swapping out ROB for Strachan would not impact our finals ambitions.

It makes a massive difference... but I don't expect that you will change your mind any time soon.

 

[Scorpus]

Adelaide outscored them 4.8 (really 5.7) to 0.1 for the quarter, and they had barely managed to get it into their forward half for the entire quarter.

You are correct that it wasn't a 100% guarantee... but I'd love to know the odds on Sydney scoring from the centre bounce under those circumstances. I reckon they would have been very long odds indeed.

Getting goals kicked on us in red time at the very end of the quarter to lose the match?

Doesn't seem all that unlikely

 

[Faaarrk]

Adelaide outscored them 4.8 (really 5.7) to 0.1 for the quarter, and they had barely managed to get it into their forward half for the entire quarter.

You are correct that it wasn't a 100% guarantee... but I'd love to know the odds on Sydney scoring from the centre bounce under those circumstances. I reckon they would have been very long odds indeed.

Yep long odds but not out of the question. Dawson would have been short odds to kick the goal but also not guaranteed.

 

[jimvic]

ROB is important not because he's a great ruckman (he's not), but because of the inadequacies of his replacements. The intra-club match showed us just how far ROB outclasses Strachan, and the other options are even weaker. Thus, losing ROB would have a massive impact on our chances of making the finals.

ROB has also towelled up every ruckman put against him in this preseason. Not necessarily a great list of competitors, but you can only play against those that are put up against you

 

[maxlilly]

Wonder who that was in reference too,,,,,Jimmy Webster methinks.

As soon as ALFW footy boss heard it, he was always in trouble

 

[AFC979810]

ROB is a good ruckman. Not elite, not an all-time great, but he's definitely in the upper half of AFL ruckmen. It makes a massive difference...

It doesn't though. The ruck position gets less important every single year.

There were 5 ruck man in the top 100 players for salary at AFL level in 2023 (ROB was one of them) and those teams combined for ZERO finals wins in 2023.

When the premiership winner has Mason Cox as their ruck man - it should show you how important that position is.

but I don't expect that you will change your mind any time soon.

Incredible. I have a history on here of acknowledging when I changed my mind / got things wrong.

But then again - maybe I just had rocks in my head.....

You on the other hand just disappear when you are your rubbish thoughts which are spoken as fact are called out.

 

[skam85]

You could argue that umpiring also cost us one of the Collingwood losses, though those were far less certain - Dawson still would have needed to kick the goal after being decapitated, whereas in the Sydney game the ball had actually gone through the big sticks.

The simple fact is that we would have won that game if Mr Magoo hadn't intervened, and having won the game, we would have qualified for the finals.

It's as big an if as Dawson converting the set shot against the Pies.
There was 47 seconds left, just as easy for Sydney to win the clearance and score a winner with time to spare.

 

[cleanhands]

Dawson and Tex - yes. ROB absolutely not.

Our fortunes in 2024 will follow Walker, Laird, Tex, Crouch, Dawson, Fog, Rankine and Rachele much more than it will follow ROB.

Ruck is the least important position on the footy field. As long as you don't do a 2009 elimination final Essendon - it really doesn't matter who is in there.

Until the ruckman becomes dominant …… then he becomes important

 

[skam85]

I'd be throwing around a few "campaigners" and "mother*ers" personally

I guess Clarko would have just needed to decide in the moment whether he wanted to be cancelled for incest shaming or homoshaming

 

[skam85]

Getting goals kicked on us in red time at the very end of the quarter to lose the match?

Doesn't seem all that unlikely

Adelaide losing a key centre clearance? Never heard of her

 

[cleanhands]

I guess Clarko would have just needed to decide in the moment whether he wanted to be cancelled for incest shaming or homoshaming

I got wrong what he was sucking and thought it was odd terminology, then realised it’s the male equivalent