Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[ant555]

Wow, De Goey. Get a clue man.

Some people simply have crap for brains.

 

[ant555]

JUH still rubbish.

No work rate and maybe a bit soft. Pretty sure he does not have the engine and I have questions on his mental toughness.

 

[boncer34]

No work rate and maybe a bit soft. Pretty sure he does not have the engine and I have questions on his mental toughness.

The maybe was superfluous

 

[BrunoV]

No work rate and maybe a bit soft. Pretty sure he does not have the engine and I have questions on his mental toughness.

How is he annointed as the clear number 1?

I really wonder about AFL recruiters

 

[ant555]

How is he annointed as the clear number 1?

I really wonder about AFL recruiters

How was Francis clearly top 5 by 99% of the people who watched him play ?
They do a lot of good stuff in junior footy but sometimes it does not translate to AFL level. Has never been an exact science and it never will be even though it has got a lot better now over the journey. The is no manual for the various issues that can go wrong and a lot of the scope is taking a punt on what you may be able to improve in a player to get them to the next level.

 

[BrunoV]

How was Francis clearly top 5 by 99% of the people who watched him play ?
They do a lot of good stuff in junior footy but sometimes it does not translate to AFL level. Has never been an exact science and it never will be even though it has got a lot better now over the journey. The is no manual for the various issues that can go wrong and a lot of the scope is taking a punt on what you may be able to improve in a player to get them to the next level.

If it's anything like what happens with footy commentary, group think.

 

[ant555]

If it's anything like what happens with footy commentary, group think.

Not really. Not from my experience. In the end the top end of the group make the decisions but even in my small role I was given the floor to voice what I thought and question what others where seeing in players. Recruiters from all clubs will talk to each other on a casual basis but there is never really any serious talk about players other than the obvious stuff like players x has a good work rate or can take a strong mark etc.
Drafting is a risk taking exercise in general. As I said before clubs are looking for flaws they can maybe fix or "upside" as much as they are looking at ability. Go too conservative and you can miss badly on players who have natural improvement . Take too much of a risk and you get burnt the other way. Positions on the ladder often has a big bearing on how much risk you take.
JUH has simply not handled the transition to senior footy. It is one factor that is very hard to pick up when they are dominating in the under age level.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

From what I’ve read the Pies gave De Goey permission to go to Bali. So young man goes to Bali with mates …what exactly then did he do wrong? The girl filmed with him had no complaints

 

[ghostdog]

Some people simply have crap for brains.

It's amazing that Collingwood said okay... if they knew.

 

[ghostdog]

From what I’ve read the Pies gave De Goey permission to go to Bali. So young man goes to Bali with mates …what exactly then did he do wrong? The girl filmed with him had no complaints

If you were in his situation, would you have even had the audacity to ask at this stage? He needs to focus on his football I think.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

If you were in his situation, would you have even had the audacity to ask at this stage? He needs to focus on his football I think.

Club said ok. They should be copping it for letting a guy who got in trouble overseas recently allowed to go overseas again during bye. So if he has been given permission what has he done wrong?

 

[sameolds33]

From what I’ve read the Pies gave De Goey permission to go to Bali. So young man goes to Bali with mates …what exactly then did he do wrong? The girl filmed with him had no complaints

It wasn't an issue until the photos were published. No photos - no story for the media to pick up and dissect. He's an idiot for creating the headlines and trouble for himself and the club as a result.

 

[ghostdog]

Club said ok. They should be copping it for letting a guy who got in trouble overseas recently allowed to go overseas again during bye. So if he has been given permission what has he done wrong?

There's a real lack of common sense on the part of both, and really, he shouldn't have even asked to go.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It wasn't an issue until the photos were published. No photos - no story for the media to pick up and dissect. He's an idiot for creating the headlines and trouble for himself and the club as a result.

What I find hard to take is Tony Shaw coming out and bagging his behaviour when there were plants of stories of his teammates behaviour back in 80/90s that were far worse than this. Of course there no phones with cameras back then

 

[Lore]

What I find hard to take is Tony Shaw coming out and bagging his behaviour when there were plants of stories of his teammates behaviour back in 80/90s that were far worse than this. Of course there no phones with cameras back then

I was watching a few movies set in the 1980s and the 1990s the other day. There’s no way they’d get made now, times have changed.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I was watching a few movies set in the 1980s and the 1990s the other day. There’s no way they’d get made now, times have changed.

That’s right…it’s easier these days to fly overseas.

 

[Ati Tude]

Club said ok. They should be copping it for letting a guy who got in trouble overseas recently allowed to go overseas again during bye. So if he has been given permission what has he done wrong?

And does it matter if he went to Bali or say the Gold Coast?

 

[Nifft]

It's amazing that Collingwood said okay... if they knew.

Maybe there's method in their madness? Isn't his contract up for renewal? Maybe they figured he'd end up in the news one way or another and the result would lower his value.

 

[ghostdog]

Maybe there's method in their madness? Isn't his contract up for renewal? Maybe they figured he'd end up in the news one way or another and the result would lower his value.

That is diabolical gamesmanship. It would sting at the trade table as well though...

 

[BrunoV]

Not really. Not from my experience. In the end the top end of the group make the decisions but even in my small role I was given the floor to voice what I thought and question what others where seeing in players. Recruiters from all clubs will talk to each other on a casual basis but there is never really any serious talk about players other than the obvious stuff like players x has a good work rate or can take a strong mark etc.
Drafting is a risk taking exercise in general. As I said before clubs are looking for flaws they can maybe fix or "upside" as much as they are looking at ability. Go too conservative and you can miss badly on players who have natural improvement . Take too much of a risk and you get burnt the other way. Positions on the ladder often has a big bearing on how much risk you take.
JUH has simply not handled the transition to senior footy. It is one factor that is very hard to pick up when they are dominating in the under age level.

A guy with questionable professionalism and no tank is an undisputed number 1.

It must have been all those references to him being the next Buddy, who was essentially a national standard 400m to middle distance runner.

This is fundamental stuff. You gotta have the profile of the player you can justify getting wrong.

 

[ant555]

A guy with questionable professionalism and no tank is an undisputed number 1.

It must have been all those references to him being the next Buddy, who was essentially a national standard 400m to middle distance runner.

This is fundamental stuff. You gotta have the profile of the player you can justify getting wrong.

It is a simple fact that sometimes you can not predict that a player can not mentally take the next step. It had nothing to do with media and any of that crap and if you really think reciting staff put in hours and hours of work and then simply turn on their computer and are influenced by what they read then you are fundamentally wrong and selling the work that is done well short.
JUH, Watts , Francis . All displayed outstanding ability. All did the hard work at junior level and had no big question marks on attitude . Three examples of not being able to predict how some players can not mentally take the next step.
The blunt truth about drafting is if you get 60% of your picks right then you are in the top of the group.
JUH was training with them. He worked within their system but he has not been able to take the step up to 6 days a week full training load and the pressure to just produce to a level the hype suggested he should. There where no questions on his professionalism / training going into the draft. They knew he had to get fitter which is the case with 90% of drafted players.
This is drafting everywhere. The NFL clubs put millions into reciting yet you still see major flops in first round draft picks.
Simple fact is you are dealing with young people people and not robots or cyborgs. Some get injured. Some can not get their head around how professional you have to be and some are just not physically inclined enough to translate their ability into AFL level.
It is not a simplistic black and white thing.

 

[rumply]

It is a simple fact that sometimes you can not predict that a player can not mentally take the next step.

You see it in the NFL all the time - Primo draft picks with all the natural talent (for their position) you can imagine that simply dont get anywhere near it at the level & are either out of the league within a few years or are buried deep on a depth chart on a bad team somewhere.

 

[Mercurial89]

You see it in the NFL all the time - Primo draft picks with all the natural talent (for their position) you can imagine that simply dont get anywhere near it at the level & are either out of the league within a few years or are buried deep on a depth chart on a bad team somewhere.

Also bigger Draft busts because they will have a freak athletic score which is the reason they go where they go.
Their tape may even not be that great on field in college but teams take the swing on the wingspan, or the size or the 40 time.
Then you get your guys with solid tape, going in like round 4 who are great in the NFL, maybe a lower ceiling but a great floor.

 

[sameolds33]

You see it in the NFL all the time - Primo draft picks with all the natural talent (for their position) you can imagine that simply dont get anywhere near it at the level & are either out of the league within a few years or are buried deep on a depth chart on a bad team somewhere.

That stat is one of the reasons that Paddy McCartin's return to AFL is universally cheered. A number 1 draft pick who endured so much is now playing good footy at the highest level. I feel very sorry for the kids drafted at 1 (and top 10). So much pressure to perform, it can go either way. What Ant said.

 

[rumply]

Also bigger Draft busts because they will have a freak athletic score which is the reason they go where they go.
Their tape may even not be that great on field in college but teams take the swing on the wingspan, or the size or the 40 time.
Then you get your guys with solid tape, going in like round 4 who are great in the NFL, maybe a lower ceiling but a great floor.

Those Spider Charts have a lot to answer for