Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[IHurley]

Seems like Hawthorn's reviewers picked up more than enough not to need to virtue signal.

It will be interesting to see the correspondence between the reviewers and the coaches. And to a lesser extent the journo and the coaches.

If Fagan is right that he wasn't contacted by the reviewer (should be easy to prove if he's lying) the review automatically becomes trash.

 

[IHurley]

The review was with regard to the experiences of Aboriginal players following the allegations made by Cyril, so it wasn't deemed necessary to give it that scope. The findings obviously have precipitated the need for 2.0.

Russell Jackson, the journo, has since said he reached out to Fagan by email and phone to offer right of reply but got no response. One presumes, given the gravity of the allegations, that he offered the same to Clarkson and Burt.

If the reviewer named (or made it easy to identify) Fagan and Clarko but didn't speak to either he should face life in prison. What a loathsome thing to do.

 

[faible]

If Fagan is right that he wasn't contacted by the reviewer (should be easy to prove if he's lying) the review automatically becomes trash.

Incorrect.

Hawthorn, following Cyril Rioli's accusations earlier this year, commissioned an investigation in to the treatment of Indigenous players at Hawthorn.

That report came back, showing some very deeply concerning stuff. Hawthorn (rightly) decided it needed to be taken further, and has handed the report to the AFL in order for the investigation to be continued, at which point Clarkson, Fagan and others will get their opportunity to respond.

Given the first review was only about investigating treatment of Indigenous players at Hawthorn, speaking to anyone who's not an Indigenous player past or present at Hawthorn, is irrelevant.

 

[Lore]

It will be interesting to see the correspondence between the reviewers and the coaches. And to a lesser extent the journo and the coaches.

If Fagan is right that he wasn't contacted by the reviewer (should be easy to prove if he's lying) the review automatically becomes trash.

The review did what it was supposed to do... it asked a bunch of former players for their experiences of racism at the club, and when it found that the problem was a hell of a lot bigger than they bargained for, they handed it to Hawthorn to forward to the AFL's Integrity Unit for a full investigation.

It's also notable that the review wasn't publicised by the club, they didn't come out and announce findings or recommendations. Its contents are entirely confidential. It looks like they referred it to the AFL and then sat on any public details, presumably until after the grand final. The publication of the article forced their hand.

 

[faible]

If the reviewer named (or made it easy to identify) Fagan and Clarko but didn't speak to either he should face life in prison. What a loathsome thing to do.

I'm honestly amazed that you appear to have a much deeper problem with the reviewer than the guys accused of bullying multiple players in to separating from their partners, coercing them in to pushing for abortions, and detaching them from their families.

 

[IHurley]

"It's contents are entirely confidential."

So I've just been dreaming up this story about Clarkson and Fagan.

Not winning a final in two decades does strange things.

 

[Lore]

"It's contents are entirely confidential."

So I've just been dreaming up this story about Clarkson and Fagan.

Not winning a final in two decades does strange things.

There's two different things.

1. Article on the ABC website, detailing three case studies of former Hawthorn players and their families, and naming Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. You can read it here:
   Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches
2. External review commissioned by Hawthorn into the treatment of Indigenous players at their club. Not published anywhere but we know it exists:
   

   Earlier this year the Hawthorn Football Club engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former First Nations players and staff to learn more about their experience at the club.
   
   This important work has raised disturbing historical allegations that require further investigation. Upon learning of these allegations, the club immediately engaged AFL Integrity as is appropriate.

   

   Club Statement

   The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club

   www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[faible]

"It's contents are entirely confidential."

You do realise the ABC report and the Hawthorn report are different things right?

The ABC report is based on interviews with three past Hawthorn players, who had also spoken to the Hawthorn investigators, but wanted / were willing to share more details of their stories to be published.

 

[Lore]

Anti-vax politics are still not allowed on the forum.

Personal attacks have never been allowed on the forum.

 

[IHurley]

"than the guys accused"

There's a very important word there.

"Accused". If they're guilty then they should be punished the way anybody else should be for violating bodily autonomy of their employees. Life in prison that is.

If they're not guilty then they're the victims.

 

[Lore]

"than the guys accused"

There's a very important word there.

"Accused". If they're guilty then they should be punished the way anybody else should be for violating bodily autonomy of their employees. Life in prison that is.

If they're not guilty then they're the victims.

It's not a criminal investigation. The bodily autonomy of the employees is not in question as the players' partners were never employed by the club.

 

[IHurley]

There's two different things.

1. Article on the ABC website, detailing three case studies of former Hawthorn players and their families, and naming Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. You can read it here:
   Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches
2. External review commissioned by Hawthorn into the treatment of Indigenous players at their club. Not published anywhere but we know it exists:
   
   
   

   Club Statement

   The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club

   www.hawthornfc.com.au

The ABC article is piggybacking on the "credibility" of the Review to justify its allegations. Given the Review never granted a right of reply that makes it not credible which in turn makes the article an utter disgrace.

 

[Lore]

The ABC article is piggybacking on the "credibility" of the Review to justify its allegations. Given the Review never granted a right of reply that makes it not credible which in turn makes the article an utter disgrace.

If you read that article and come to the conclusion that it can't possibly be credible, then I really don't know what to tell you. I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye.

 

[faible]

The ABC article is piggybacking on the "credibility" of the Review to justify its allegations. Given the Review never granted a right of reply that makes it not credible which in turn makes the article an utter disgrace.

No the ABC article is piggybacking on the credibility of the ex players telling their stories, and any text or email evidence thereof.

That they’ve been investigating this story for months, and have very specifically named three people, suggests to me they’ve got some solid evidence to support their accusations.

The report itself wouldn’t have been heard about had the ABC not independently interviewed these players.

 

[Lore]

No the ABC article is piggybacking on the credibility of the ex players telling their stories, and any text or email evidence thereof.

That they’ve been investigating this story for months, and have very specifically named three people, suggests to me they’ve got some solid evidence to support their accusations.

The report itself wouldn’t have been heard about had the ABC not independently interviewed these players.

The ABC is also pretty experienced with defamation lawsuits and has a team of lawyers for their 7.30 and Four Corners programs in particular - they would be going over stuff like this with a finetooth comb before it is published.

 

[rumply]

Another key figure at centre of Hawks crisis stands down from role amid AFL probe

Another key figure at centre of Hawks crisis stands down from role amid AFL probe

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Doss]

If the reviewer named (or made it easy to identify) Fagan and Clarko but didn't speak to either he should face life in prison. What a loathsome thing to do.

Wtf man

 

[rumply]

If the reviewer named (or made it easy to identify) Fagan and Clarko but didn't speak to either he should face life in prison. What a loathsome thing to do.

 

[rumply]

 

[frodos gardener]

If the reviewer named (or made it easy to identify) Fagan and Clarko but didn't speak to either he should face life in prison. What a loathsome thing to do.

You’re obviously really fired up about it and saying he should “face life in prison” is clearly coming from a place of emotion.

I believe in having right of reply and not being hung purely in the court of public opinion, and I’m never comfortable with astonishingly awful allegations being published before the perpetrators have had that chance to provide their input and version.

I agree a day’s notice via email from the journo of the ABC story isn’t enough.

But this doesn’t minimise just how gut-wrenching it is to hear about the experiences of those in the report. I’m still trying to get my head around how, if true, someone could be so vile and cold to someone in a vulnerable position. I guess that’s the struggle of trying to understand a psychopath’s mindset.

In summary, it is possible to be revolted as a human and also believing the accused should’ve been given a better opportunity to provide an early response. If it was any of us, we’d want that opportunity too.

 

[rumply]

 

[IHurley]

"That they’ve been investigating this story for months, and have very specifically named three people, suggests to me they’ve got some solid evidence to support their accusations"

So this entire story rests on the credibility of not just a journalist, but an ABC journalist.

Ouch.

 

[Kong]

There needs to be reviews across all clubs.

Externally run, too, ideally with an Elder or key Indigenous member involved.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Caveat here though is that Hickeys were in separate tenures, like Parkin's at Carlton

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Caveat here though is that Hickeys were in separate tenures, like Parkin's at Carlton

Mate, you remember the day we were at The Mitre having a pint when the news came through that Reg was relinquishing the role to Coghlan?

No one could believe it. You had to go out on the street and buy a copy of the PM edition yourself to make sure.

Good times.