Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[Bunk Moreland]

owen87
Image was too large for me to attach, but

AFL Players launch 2022 Indigenous Map

The AFLPA has launched the 2022 Indigenous Map.

www.aflplayers.com.au

Actual diversity is going to those areas, working with local leaders, providing equipment, training coaches, all of that.

The AFL do some of that.

It’s NOT going there, finding the best kids and giving them some private school scholarship in a capital city.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

The stories aren't made up. That's not how this works. That's why it's up to the journalist to test what he's been told to within an inch of its life.

If you think about the cultural divide, the resignation that indigenous commentators describe because of their experiences, subjective fear and powerlessness that individuals feel because of their history this to me is how when dealing with the white employer, suggestions and comments become demands.

When you prepare a witness statement, for example, you don't transcribe the witnesses versions of what someone said. You don't quote the witness saying "Clarkson demanded that I need to get rid of my unborn child". You say something like "Clakson stood up, he put his hands on the table and said words to the effect that '...'.

All we're getting is subjective paraphrasing.

I'm trying to understand why so much commentary surrounds the absence of dedicated staff for indigenous players. You don't need specialist staff to tell you trying to force a player's partner to have an abortion is wrong, you need to the staff to help you navigate conversations that are virtually impossible to have because of history.

While you could be right, we do not know that the player did not say to Jackson, "Clarkson demanded that I need to get rid of my unborn child" verbatim. They might have been questioned further and provided other details, but like you have said before, people aren't the best witnesses when it comes to photographic detail, especially ten years later. However the demanding by Clarkson to abort the child would remain.

The ABC will have cleared this enough through legal to protect the journalist and the ABC (and you'd hope the players), but do not have to present to court to prosecute, which I guess is kind of your point about considering the safety of the player prior to publishing. But we do not know how much more information they have gathered that can support the article. A news article is not designed to be a legal document and rarely is very long. This one was already very long by today's standards.

I guess what I'm saying is that while we may be making some assumptions based on partial information, you are making the assumption that it is not exactly what was said to the journalist.

 

[Doss]

I don't think anyone has decided it's impossible there's another side to the story.

Just unlikely it justifies it.

These are two different things.

Short of the events as described simply not having happened - which appears to be your take - there's exceptionally little that would justify an AFL coach bullying a player in to breaking up with a pregnant partner, and pushing that partner to have an abortion.

Your totally bizarre line here that you've snuck in says a hell of a lot;

Heh, good find.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Look what you’ve done:

This is Wahooti Fandango right now

 

[Beerfish]

Your totally bizarre line here that you've snuck in says a hell of a lot

 

[boncer34]

Does it matter why they did it? What matters is what was done was exposed.

Fwiw the why always matters in my opinion.

 

[boncer34]

I'm trying to explain how there could be another side of the story where everyone has decided it is impossible.

Nobody says it's impossible there's another side to the story. Of course there is, it's just not going to give Clarko and co a magic free pass like you're blindly hoping.

You should've taken the advice I gave yesterday. Sometimes you just don't have to.

 

[Beerfish]

Fwiw the why always matters in my opinion.

Why?

 

[boncer34]

Why?

Goes to a person motives. I think that's important.

 

[Beerfish]

Goes to a person motives. I think that's important.

Mate.. you were meant to say 'doesn't matter'.

 

[boncer34]

Mate.. you were meant to say 'doesn't matter'.

I'm existing on 3 hours sleep and Mt Dew.

You need to deliver my punchlines to me before I post.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

this has been such a good read since yesterday's content, holy **** haha

 

[fishardansin]

I'm trying to explain how there could be another side of the story where everyone has decided it is impossible.

Everyone is well aware that there will be another side of the story. The best-case scenario for Clarkson is that the players misunderstood what he said. A likely possibility is that Clarkson thought (or will argue) that he did what he did with the best intentions for the players' welfare "and on reflection, I see it was misguided".

Considering the consistency in the stories, it is pretty hard to see this as a complete fabrication by anyone. It is also remarkably consistent with the Cyril Rioli article that was the impetus for the report.

However, please stop saying "They haven't had a chance to reply". The AFL is currently choosing the committee to investigate this with all parties involved. This is the stage where Clarkson et all have a chance to reply and have equal input in the findings.

What has happened here is a report based on the experiences of the past players. Hawthorn did not expect this. Egan did not need to speak to Clarkson et al to understand what Aboriginal players at Hawthorn experienced. The existence of the report was leaked to the journalist and he independently interviewed the players. He gave the accused a right of reply.

I am not an Aboriginal, but I do have Aboriginal children and that alone was enough to leave me shaken reading that article. I couldn't finish it. I can only imagine what Egan who probably grew up at Cummeragunja was going through interviewing "Ian", "Zac", "Amy" et al. He had no obligation. He has handed the report to the club and they have given it to the AFL to investigate because they have the power to decide the outcome.

NOTHING HAS BEEN DECIDED ABOUT THE OUTCOME FOR CLARKSON ET AL. Therefore, whether they have had a chance to reply or not is not important. However, the journalist did give them a chance and Fagan chose not to. They have every right to respond before any outcomes or consequences. No doubt this is a tough time for them. However, either they deserve the tough time, or they will have an outpouring of support if they do not deserve it.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

This is Wahooti Fandango right now

I honestly did not mean to derail the thread.

 

[Dave]

Victoria has never been a big catchment for Indigenous kids, those who are in the VIC leagues will either be from a relatively small population of Indigenous players growing up here, or were kids like Cyril Rioli who got scholarships to come study here.

Without looking, I'd say WA is where most Indigenous players come in to the AFL via.

And why is that? There are plenty of indigenous players in the metro and country leagues around Victoria. Having been to a mid level private school and seen how the elite ones operate, perhaps they simply are not able to cope with that type of environment. A system that only recruits from such an environment is going to miss out on them, whether they are good enough or not.

 

[faible]

And why is that? There are plenty of indigenous players in the metro and country leagues around Victoria. Having been to a mid level private school and seen how the elite ones operate, perhaps they simply are not able to cope with that type of environment. A system that only recruits from such an environment is going to miss out on them, whether they are good enough or not.

Our percentage of indigenous population is fairly low, I can’t speak to other reasons.

Estimates of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 30 June 2021

Final 2021 Census-based estimated resident population of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and non-Indigenous Australians for various geographies

www.abs.gov.au

 

[Dave]

Our percentage of indigenous population is fairly low, I can’t speak to other reasons.

Estimates of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 30 June 2021

Final 2021 Census-based estimated resident population of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and non-Indigenous Australians for various geographies

www.abs.gov.au

Percentage maybe, but the toal number is higher than SA and comparable to the NT. We should be producing closer to the number of draftees as those states if the system here wasn't designed to stop them.

 

[ant555]

Percentage maybe, but the toal number is higher than SA and comparable to the NT. We should be producing closer to the number of draftees as those states if the system here wasn't designed to stop them.

How is the system here designed to stop them ?

 

[Dave]

How is the system here designed to stop them ?

Funnelling them through private school systems they are not able to exist in.

I should have been a little clearer, I don't mean it's deliberate, bit it is the outcome of the current system.

 

[ant555]

Funnelling them through private school systems they are not able to exist in.

I should have been a little clearer, I don't mean it's deliberate, bit it is the outcome of the current system.

That is why NGA came in. Despite a few loopholes it has exposed a lot of them to a higher level system. It is still not perfect but they are fine tuning it.

 

[Lore]

 

[ant555]

Also it may be delayed a bit as the players involved are seeking answers as to if they need counsel to be able to cross examine those accused.
I can not see this being wrapped up for a while. Even Gil is now saying 2 or 3 months and maybe staying on a bit longer.
Can also see how it could be a real they said v they said situation in the end and plenty of divided opinion.
All I hope or is going forward it is another step towards changing things for the better for people who have to live their lives with the constant shadow of racism in whatever form always lurking around them.

 

[fishardansin]

Funnelling them through private school systems they are not able to exist in.

I should have been a little clearer, I don't mean it's deliberate, bit it is the outcome of the current system.

It is also looking for certain personality traits. "Coachable", "leadership qualities", "comes from a good family". What they are really saying is "Your body language is something that I recognise as impressive for my culture" and "you've had a relatively small amount of trauma in your life so you can focus more on the little things".

 

[Lance Uppercut]

If a kid is in a terrible place, and abortion is a socially accepted thing (despite it almost certainly being evil)

Imagine calling millions of Australian women evil, including my wife.

That red pill sure is a toxic brew

 

[fairbump_playon]

Hey been so caught up in Clarkogate that I forgot to check.. is there still a grand final?