Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[boncer34]

You obviously don't watch Ice-Hockey. The cameras follow the player all the way to the sin bin with very little reference to the ref by the commentators.

Yes I don't watch that one.

 

[boncer34]

Hockey and Rugby are where i come from on this.
Hockey in particular is relevant to AFL in that things are flying all over the place.

Rugby im just impressed with the level of respect for officials that is forced on the players. NFL similarly. Unfortunately we can't have start stop plays (please AFL, we can't!) for an explanation on the field to be broadcast. But the trickle down you want is stop the players questioning, then ideally you have the fans get over calls faster.

i get frustrated. the wife often comments on how many times i make comment on umps.
yet i tend not to stew on them anymore. Lifetime of Swans v Dons games has taught me life is too short to fight battles that can't be won

Players sure.

But the peanuts in the commentary boxes across both rugby codes are just as painful with the 2nd guessing of decisions. And the fans are no better.

Send off rules etc are great and should be in the AFL but it won't take any of the spotlight off the Umpires.

 

[Duster]

Naïve of me but I had no idea this was the case. The percentage from the betting companies would be significant and some of that would no doubt go back to the clubs, even those who've actively divested their gambling revenue such as the pokies. I wonder if the clubs know? Kind of like your super, where you can login and see where everything is invested.

 

[Maddogm]

You obviously don't watch Ice-Hockey. The cameras follow the player all the way to the sin bin with very little reference to the ref by the commentators.

Are you sure about that?!
Mickey Redmond for example will call out bad calls no matter who it favours.

As for the fandom, a chunk of them will go off at any imagined bias.
Case in point:

He also works for one of the broadcasters

Having said that Leafs fans are special

 

['51 Bewick]

Are you sure about that?!
Mickey Redmond for example will call out bad calls no matter who it favours.

As for the fandom, a chunk of them will go off at any imagined bias.
Case in point:

He also works for one of the broadcasters

Having said that Leafs fans are special

Yes I'm sure of that. I played the game in my younger years and watch every game on Kayo. You can't do anything about the fans so that is irrelevant.

 

[Pweter]

The hard part is understanding what is dissent. If I give away a free kick due to clumsy execution and I throw my head back and curse myself, that isn't dissent though an umpire could interpret it as such.

 

[Maddogm]

Yes I'm sure of that. I played the game in my younger years and watch every game on Kayo. You can't do anything about the fans so that is irrelevant.

Given the conversation is about fan reaction I don't see how it's irrelevant.

 

[citizen-erased]

Players sure.

But the peanuts in the commentary boxes across both rugby codes are just as painful with the 2nd guessing of decisions. And the fans are no better.

Send off rules etc are great and should be in the AFL but it won't take any of the spotlight off the Umpires.

coverage is a good point. i tend to mute rugby coverage...they don't much like the rebels and i dont much like the sydney whineyness
so much like AFL, i tend to have music on and the TV muted.

I think it's something for the AFL to tap Ch7 and fox on the shoulder about.

 

[citizen-erased]

Are you sure about that?!
Mickey Redmond for example will call out bad calls no matter who it favours.

As for the fandom, a chunk of them will go off at any imagined bias.
Case in point:

He also works for one of the broadcasters

Having said that Leafs fans are special

this is probably more the challenge for the internet and places like this. Microcosms and echo chambers that are anonymous free for alls.

But if you can get the players in line to stop questioning the umps, and get some level of acceptance from fans that things will go for and against them....and get the commentators to back off a bit on what they like/don't like (they flip week to week on everything anyway. And if we're gonna judge performance in professions they won't like the mirror looking back at them)....it's worth it.

Pay off is better umpires and more depth to call on, which ideally brings in better umpiring.

 

['51 Bewick]

Given the conversation is about fan reaction I don't see how it's irrelevant.

No, we are talking about players and referees. If you think anything is going to change the way fans react I'm not getting into that.

 

[citizen-erased]

Given the conversation is about fan reaction I don't see how it's irrelevant.

No, we are talking about players and referees. If you think anything is going to change the way fans react I'm not getting into that.

Fan reaction will take a lot longer. Probably a good generation.
But if you start at the players and media, you're laying the foundations.

At some point you want the fans to accept a poor umpire call the same way they do a Daniher shot on goal. It's frustrating, and should be better, but they're not because no one's perfect. So move on.
Crack the shits in the moment, but don't carry it longer than you need to

 

[boncer34]

No, we are talking about players and referees. If you think anything is going to change the way fans react I'm not getting into that.

Well actually since you quoted me first I was talking about fans.

Unless you thought my reference to umpires being called "maggots" was something the players yelled at them.

Can see why there's confusion. We're talking different things.

 

[astrowizzle]

I don't care if they do pay them as long as they are consistent. They let 59 go in a weekend and ping on it. Is a lot like the way they umpire he protected zone. Players run through it then they pick one bullshit incidence to penalize. All any supporters of AFL really want is consistency. Unfortunately different rules apply for different teams

 

[Lore]

AFL should offer mandatory training sessions run by the umpires for all the broadcast teams as part of their AFL media accreditation

 

[Old Campaigner]

The umpires should be made to wear shock collars and the coach gets a single opportunity each game to shock one of them in response to a bad call.

Anyway, the rumour here in Geelong is that the Cats had told Tom Stewart he was going to be the skipper this year then they reneged and gave it to Dangerflog instead. No idea if it's true or not (not sure how Cats captains are chosen) but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[yodellinhank]

Pay off is better umpires and more depth to call on, which ideally brings in better umpiring.

Or just attract more of the precious little maggots that kind of authority appeals to.

Just pay them. Invest in the grass roots level with higher pays and make it a worthwhile thing for someone to do.

 

[frodos gardener]

I don’t like the dissent rule much at all. I feel like it should be limited to swearing, bullying and name calling only. As much as an umpire will never change their mind about a particular decision, it doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be able to express themselves. It’s like saying don’t argue with your Mum because she won’t change her mind; you still do it because it’s important to have your say at least once (no mummy issues here, just an analogy). Saying someone can’t show frustration is akin to stating that what they have to say isn’t important.

IMO the following is okay:

• yelling “what?!”
• arms outstretched in exasperation
• pointing at the screen

I don’t care what anyone says; no umpire left the game for these three things alone. They leave for substantial abuse from players and spectators at local level.

Not okay:

• swearing
• name calling
• bullying through constant complaining (“stop yelling at me Devon”)

 

[faible]

I don’t like the dissent rule much at all. I feel like it should be limited to swearing, bullying and name calling only. As much as an umpire will never change their mind about a particular decision, it doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be able to express themselves. It’s like saying don’t argue with your Mum because she won’t change her mind; you still do it because it’s important to have your say at least once (no mummy issues here, just an analogy). Saying someone can’t show frustration is akin to stating that what they have to say isn’t important.

IMO the following is okay:

• yelling “what?!”
• arms outstretched in exasperation
• pointing at the screen

I don’t care what anyone says; no umpire left the game for these three things alone. They leave for substantial abuse from players and spectators at local level.

Not okay:

• swearing
• name calling
• bullying through constant complaining (“stop yelling at me Devon”)

The NBA are pretty all or nothing about it, players manage to work it out quickly.

It's the erratic nature of it where even within the same game what gets pinged and what doesn't is drastically different.

 

[citizen-erased]

I don’t like the dissent rule much at all. I feel like it should be limited to swearing, bullying and name calling only. As much as an umpire will never change their mind about a particular decision, it doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be able to express themselves. It’s like saying don’t argue with your Mum because she won’t change her mind; you still do it because it’s important to have your say at least once (no mummy issues here, just an analogy). Saying someone can’t show frustration is akin to stating that what they have to say isn’t important.

IMO the following is okay:

• yelling “what?!”
• arms outstretched in exasperation
• pointing at the screen

Not okay:

• swearing
• name calling
• bullying through constant complaining (“stop yelling at me Devon”)

pointing at the screen is dumb.
1- ump has never and will never reverse the call
2- player has had time to cool it after the initial decision. After that, they're just being a prat

I think it's fine to ask what the free was for (learndings and all that).
The frustration should be fine too. A shake of the head or arms out isn't really dissent. Accompany it with a quip about it being a poor call, then yep, ping them.

If the player respectfully asks what the free was for with arms out, i think that's ok. gives the ump a chance to come back to them with feedback. but it's probably something for after the game. AFL doesn't have the setup for in the moment feedback a la Rugby/NFL.
Incessantly nagging at an ump (cough Devon) should be pinged. Get out of their ear and let them do their job. I'd back a 50 for a player out of the contest asking what a free is for.

 

[frodos gardener]

pointing at the screen is dumb.
1- ump has never and will never reverse the call
2- player has had time to cool it after the initial decision. After that, they're just being a prat

I think it's fine to ask what the free was for (learndings and all that).
The frustration should be fine too. A shake of the head or arms out isn't really dissent. Accompany it with a quip about it being a poor call, then yep, ping them.

If the player respectfully asks what the free was for with arms out, i think that's ok. gives the ump a chance to come back to them with feedback. but it's probably something for after the game. AFL doesn't have the setup for in the moment feedback a la Rugby/NFL.
Incessantly nagging at an ump (cough Devon) should be pinged. Get out of their ear and let them do their job. I'd back a 50 for a player out of the contest asking what a free is for.

It may be dumb but it’s also harmless. I guess I value the human side of showing emotion within reason so long as it’s not hurtful. I don’t think pointing at the screen and saying “look I handballed it” is a big deal

 

[rumply]

 

[eth-dog]

Have a Showdown and a Derby on Friday Night once a year. Stand alone.

 

[andleanback]

Have a Showdown and a Derby on Friday Night once a year. Stand alone.

Yes showdown, no derby

 

[eth-dog]

Yes showdown, no derby

Why not? It'll only start 20 minutes later than a typical Friday Night match and gives it the proper recognition it deserves.

 

[faible]

oi guys lets move the game with two Adelaide teams to marvel stadium.

Great idea Barrett. No wonder they're paying you for your opinions on things.