Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2022 - Part 2

[Spirit Level]

Me, the parade was lame. Amazing weather so far.

Temp legit feels like it dropped 5 degrees in 30 mins, gotta love Melbourne weather

 

[Square Peg]

I don’t believe we overlooked him for that reason.

What happened with Shane Yarran would’ve put us off big time. Liam Ryan has had trouble with the law at West Coast - it’s just been hushed up.

It’s a poor example imo - we’re scared of drafting players who have had trouble with the law or don’t seem to have the required level of commitment.

Both players above are First Nations people but I know for a fact the club marked Jack Darling as ‘do not recruit under any circumstances’ as they thought he was too much trouble.

They’d be plenty of others - for every Darling or Ryan they’d be ten players that either last 2-3 years or are never drafted in the first place.

I don't think you're correctly following the thread of the conversation. The claim I responded to is the eagles have a long history of not recruiting indigenous players. Which is bullshit, their record is very good. There's enough going on at that club to beat them over that is factual, without having to make stuff up.

I used Ryan as an example as he's exactly the type of troubled indigenous player with off field issues which, if such a fanciful policy truly exists at the eagles, they wouldn't have gone near. I could have used, I don't know, someone like Jetta but would using an example of a guy that had already proven he could play at the highest level for years before the eagles got him really have been better evidence?

 

[FreoGirl]

Those are the fans that posted a video of a woman weeping while saying "Let it out, let it out!" with the caption: "Freo supporters today"

Why do north supporters think we're crying hysterically, you might ask?

Well, because Darcy Tucker requested a trade to NM!

There were several posts like this, too. They truly think we're shattered at this news.

My point is, I don't think we should we paying much attention to their opinions on whether or not Clarko will be there next year. I reckon their perceptions don't quite line up with reality.

NM has fans ?!?!

 

[theGav56]

NM has fans ?!?!

Haha. That must be the only tiny flaw in Daddoo's otherwise excellent post.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Regarding indigenous issues, what have they got to hide? I reckon I could count on both hands the indigenous players in their history.

I heard that Sharrod Wellingham’s mother said he was subjected to some inexcusable racist slurs at both Collingwood and WC. It might have been a radio interview but I can’t find it anywhere. But I definitely remember it being a thing.

 

[sumavich]

Chris Lewis was subjected to appalling racial slurs way before Goodes, Bud, Farmer etc etc
He was the only indigenous in that team at the time I think, and was called horrendous things to put him off his game.
I'm sure the West Coast people did their best to help him then, but the abuse he suffered from Brereton, Lyon ect was disgusting

 

[ImperialPurple]

Don’t know who might have watched the Sydney v Hawthorn AFLW game just now, but the ‘tough week for the club / wearing indigenous jumpers in support of indigenous players’ and the ‘we support everyone’ rhetoric was sickening. It was coming from commentators and hawthorn players and the coach alike. I know they had to say/do something - they couldn’t just pretend it didn’t exist, but wearing the indigenous jumpers and some of the ‘poor us’ victim mentality just felt really off.

 

[Square Peg]

Don’t know who might have watched the Sydney v Hawthorn AFLW game just now, but the ‘tough week for the club / wearing indigenous jumpers in support of indigenous players’ and the ‘we support everyone’ rhetoric was sickening. It was coming from commentators and hawthorn players and the coach alike. I know they had to say/do something - they couldn’t just pretend it didn’t exist, but wearing the indigenous jumpers and some of the ‘poor us’ victim mentality just felt really off.

Yuk that is off. Did they have any indigenous girls out there playing for them? Imagine their predicament.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Yuk that is off. Did they have any indigenous girls out there playing for them? Imagine their predicament.

Not as far as I’m aware but after the game they spoke to Akec Makur Chuot, who’s South Sudanese, and asked her what she thought about wearing the jumper. It was very tokenistic, and again very off, that they picked the only black person they could find to make a comment. There’s some racism in practice.

 

[Square Peg]

Not as far as I’m aware but after the game they spoke to Akec Makur Chuot, who’s South Sudanese, and asked her what she thought about wearing the jumper. It was very tokenistic, and again very off, that they picked the only black person they could find to make a comment. There’s some racism in practice.

FMD

 

[WaywardSonSon]

niceeeeee. Your descriptions this past week have been made of fiyahhhhhhh! Hmm, interesting times ahead

You're too kind good sir! As others have stated, I always enjoy reading your articulately crafted musings also!

 

[Kram]

Chris Lewis was subjected to appalling racial slurs way before Goodes, Bud, Farmer etc etc
He was the only indigenous in that team at the time I think, and was called horrendous things to put him off his game.
I'm sure the West Coast people did their best to help him then, but the abuse he suffered from Brereton, Lyon ect was disgusting

I would have been like around 10 years old when it came out about what happened to Winmar and McAdam and remember thinking what the **** is wrong with people over there.

 

[Docker82]

I don't think you're correctly following the thread of the conversation. The claim I responded to is the eagles have a long history of not recruiting indigenous players. Which is bullshit, their record is very good. There's enough going on at that club to beat them over that is factual, without having to make stuff up.

I used Ryan as an example as he's exactly the type of troubled indigenous player with off field issues which, if such a fanciful policy truly exists at the eagles, they wouldn't have gone near. I could have used, I don't know, someone like Jetta but would using an example of a guy that had already proven he could play at the highest level for years before the eagles got him really have been better evidence?

I would’ve disagreed with you ten years ago tbh. There was a lack of indigenous players on their list before Jetta joined the club. Before Sampi they recruited many indigenous players - the Materas, Wirrpunda, Kerr etc.

Right now I think there is little to no evidence from the outside that West Coast are anything worse than AFL-standard in that area. Investigations like the one at Hawthorn (but not Hawthorn) will tell us more about whether AFL-standard is good enough. Reasonably confident both WA clubs wouldn’t be in trouble from such investigations but may identify ways to improve.

 

[sdfc]

I would’ve disagreed with you ten years ago tbh. There was a lack of indigenous players on their list before Jetta joined the club. Before Sampi they recruited many indigenous players - the Materas, Wirrpunda, Kerr etc.

Right now I think there is little to no evidence from the outside that West Coast are anything worse than AFL-standard in that area. Investigations like the one at Hawthorn (but not Hawthorn) will tell us more about whether AFL-standard is good enough. Reasonably confident both WA clubs wouldn’t be in trouble from such investigations but may identify ways to improve.

Jetta's about the most frustrating player I've seen. Had all the physical tools to be a great of the game.

 

[Daddoo]

Two AFL clubs make moves to review history with Indigenous players in answer to Eddie’s call

Love it. Makes be proud as hell to support this club. I'm sure no club is perfect, but this shows a genuine commitment to look critically at ones self in the hopes of bringing to light past racist acts and making real changes, if needed. It's hard to do and very uncomfortable, but this is how we move forward. Thank you, Alcock and team for stepping up during this time and being part of the solution.

 

[tonygeeks]

Those are the fans that posted a video of a woman weeping while saying "Let it out, let it out!" with the caption: "Freo supporters today"

Why do north supporters think we're crying hysterically, you might ask?

Well, because Darcy Tucker requested a trade to NM!

There were several posts like this, too. They truly think we're shattered at this news.

My point is, I don't think we should we paying much attention to their opinions on whether or not Clarko will be there next year. I reckon their perceptions don't quite line up with reality.

It might have been my mum , she has a very high opinion of young Darcy that has very little to do with football

 

[stax on the mull]

I would’ve disagreed with you ten years ago tbh. There was a lack of indigenous players on their list before Jetta joined the club. Before Sampi they recruited many indigenous players - the Materas, Wirrpunda, Kerr etc.

Right now I think there is little to no evidence from the outside that West Coast are anything worse than AFL-standard in that area. Investigations like the one at Hawthorn (but not Hawthorn) will tell us more about whether AFL-standard is good enough. Reasonably confident both WA clubs wouldn’t be in trouble from such investigations but may identify ways to improve.

Kerr is Anglo-Indian heritage but I think there were a couple of others like Troy Ugle and Shane Bond (well Bond eventually left under fairly bad terms to Port Adelaide and I do remember hearing he was the only player, apart from Mainwaring, who didn't turn up for their 25 year reunion of their 1994 premership ).

What I do recall reading after that Winmar game at Victoria Park that we now have a statue for, is a story in the local paper about how the West Coast team had their Indigenous players lead the team out in front of the Collingwood crowd at Victoria Park as some show of "we're right behind you" solidarity - knowing they'd receive a hostile reception. Could have been a gimmick move I suppose. This would have been later in the same year (1993), but for me it was first time I found out that the Matera brothers had an Indigenous heritage.

 

[Dockeroo]

One detail about the hawthorn story that has slightly bothered me since it was broken is the amount of time Russell Jackson provided to Fagan and Clarkson to respond before the article was published.
He said he gave 24 hrs notice, emailed them and left a voicemail on Fagan’s phone but got no reply.
I might be completely wrong on this and I’m unaware of journalistic protocols in situations like this, but just instinctively, if I was releasing an article of such massive magnitude and impact, effectively a career ended for the guys involved, I’d be giving more than 24 hours notice to the main protagonists to read and respond privately… I don’t doubt the accuracy and veracity of Jackson’s reporting, he’s a very well regarded professional in this area, but should he have made more effort to speak to Fagan or Clarkson before going to press? Why leave yourself open to criticism by failing to speak to them before printing? Maybe there was a high risk of an injunction being brought against him to prevent publishing by Clarkson or Fagan if he’d given them 3 or 4 days notice?
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[FreoGirl]

One detail about the hawthorn story that has slightly bothered me since it was broken is the amount of time Russell Jackson provided to Fagan and Clarkson to respond before the article was published.
He said he gave 24 hrs notice, emailed them and left a voicemail on Fagan’s phone but got no reply.
I might be completely wrong on this and I’m unaware of journalistic protocols in situations like this, but just instinctively, if I was releasing an article of such massive magnitude and impact, effectively a career ended for the guys involved, I’d be giving more than 24 hours notice to the main protagonists to read and respond privately… I don’t doubt the accuracy and veracity of Jackson’s reporting, he’s a very well regarded professional in this area, but should he have made more effort to speak to Fagan or Clarkson before going to press? Why leave yourself open to criticism by failing to speak to them before printing? Maybe there was a high risk of an injunction being brought against him to prevent publishing by Clarkson or Fagan if he’d given them 3 or 4 days notice?
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this all plays out.

I studied journalism at uni, but it wasn't for me. I disagreed with what we were taught in ethics, as few publications ever allow you to apply them. It's all about being the one to release a story first, and that's where $$ and success is made. You could be right about the injunction, or perhaps it was a fear of another publication breaking the story first.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I don't know, 24 hours seems like heaps of time to provide some kind of response.

 

[s_wd6]

I don't know, 24 hours seems like heaps of time to provide some kind of response.

And being offered more time too...

 

[FreoRicci]

Ryan was always a risk for a club to take as a person, regardless. He had questionable attitude problems at WAFL even though he was tearing the league apart. To his credit he managed to really changed that mindset and commit to AFL rigours.
Another is Hogan. Just didn't work out for him at Fremantle then Ryan did at West coast.

On Darling, the Catholic school community were well aware of his troublemaking antics, wasn't a secret. He did get busted drinking alcohol at a school camp and on another occasion was caught at a party. Sacred Heart College did minimise the fall out, as can be suspendable even expelled in other schools, even for nonathletes. Pays to be a private school kid.
Weirdly Fremantle don't tend to do very well with dickheads as West coast. I mean the talent is there and oftentimes just have to caress it to win flags. Nice guys policy can hurt. Dustin Martin would've been delistes from the club if he did what he did here.

 

[freo_leo29]

Ryan was always a risk for a club to take as a person, regardless. He had questionable attitude problems at WAFL even though he was tearing the league apart. To his credit he managed to really changed that mindset and commit to AFL rigours.
Another is Hogan. Just didn't work out for him at Fremantle then Ryan did at West coast.

On Darling, the Catholic school community were well aware of his troublemaking antics, wasn't a secret. He did get busted drinking alcohol at a school camp and on another occasion was caught at a party. Sacred Heart College did minimise the fall out, as can be suspendable even expelled in other schools, even for nonathletes. Pays to be a private school kid.
Weirdly Fremantle don't tend to do very well with dickheads as West coast. I mean the talent is there and oftentimes just have to caress it to win flags. Nice guys policy can hurt. Dustin Martin would've been delistes from the club if he did what he did here.

It's not weird

It's the media hounding our players out of town, their players don't cop that kind of pressure

7 has been in bed with west coast for years, hopefully over time the higher ups at 7 Perth even out a bit more but it's been mostly eagles since the start, it's natural to look after your own

 

[FreoRicci]

It's not weird

It's the media hounding our players out of town, their players don't cop that kind of pressure

7 has been in bed with west coast for years, hopefully over time the higher ups at 7 Perth even out a bit more but it's been mostly eagles since the start, it's natural to look after your own

Hurts when Wa has no freaking competitor for media rights.
At least Victoria and NSW have media competition. Here it's just The West and nothing else. Biased to the max.

 

[Kram]

It's not weird

It's the media hounding our players out of town, their players don't cop that kind of pressure

7 has been in bed with west coast for years, hopefully over time the higher ups at 7 Perth even out a bit more but it's been mostly eagles since the start, it's natural to look after your own

The media is a bit biased but how hard is for grown men not to act like peanuts and try to stay out of trouble.