Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2022 - Part 2

[Snuffaluphagus]

Well, the second group do an order of magnitude more harm, in no small part because those people are taken more seriously, elevated to positions of power, and encounter little to no opposition or consequences. Which is why the answer can’t be to punish a few people, but instead to reform the whole damn organisation (AFL). Clarkson is a symptom, the system is the sickness.

I do also think Clubs have become too involved in players lives. There is no workplace on Earth that gives as much support as modern sporting institutions because players are their most important asset BUT the support needs to be provided in a way that works.

IMO, their needs to be an independent indigenous welfare body that is in charge of overseeing the programs of all clubs AND provides a confidential report system players can go through. I'm ignorant to what the current set-up is but I doubt it's at that level

 

[Descent]

* me dead, discussed with who thing with a mate who legit said 'This is the price of success, and the coaches would of had a reason to intervene'.

This same mate has said these things over the last few years.

• Nothing wrong with protestors showing Dan Andrews getting hung - it's the will of the people.
• Donald Trump is brilliant.
• Why should I stay with my current missues when I could get a younger version I'd be able to more easily control.
• Privatise medicare, all people should pay for their own health insurance.
• Due process is red tape and the (Liberal) government should be able to use their money on whatever they want, it's what they were voted in for.

Is it wrong for me to consider that my mate is barking mad and to think that he needs to pull his head in?

Just to really hammer home my confusion, he isn't even white so fk knows how he got these values.

But my point is - there's people out there that think this Hawthorn business is acceptable and that's... quite scary.

Sounds like your mate is bashing his keyboard on stormfront while waiting on the next post from Q. Jettison that friendship into the sun.

 

[Square Peg]

I do also think Clubs have become too involved in players lives.

This a million times over!
Im not trying to downplay the severity, but this is the extreme immoral end of a basically ****ed competition trying to squeeze every last drop of competitive advantage out of young guys that just want to play a game they're bloody good at. It's like the story of the frog boiling in a pot of water and not noticing. There's a fair few degrees of separation to get to this extreme end point but you can 100% see how it got there, a club says maybe since we're micromanaging their diets and sleep hours and when they can go out and what they're allowed to say in public, we can micromanage who they're having sex with or abandoning their drug addict cousin.

 

[freo1997]

Yeah, and the evidence comes from two sources.
1. A report sanctioned by Hawthorn with 3 different partners involved (so not just 1 or even 2 people). There will be multiple emails, phone calls, hospital dates, rental history ect to check this one out.
2. The information researched by the ABC report. There will be multiple emails, phone calls, hospital dates, rental history to collaborate this story already.
They are screwed, which is why a legally prepared response (which both Fagen and Clarkson have submitted) which denied all culpability, was an error in judgement (in my opinion).

The arrogance to deny it!! Maybe they think they are screwed either way or arrogance?

 

[AstonSouffle]

I reckon you should delete his number from your phone.

Why are you hanging out with this guy by choice?

Sounds like your mate is bashing his keyboard on stormfront while waiting on the next post from Q. Jettison that friendship into the sun.

Honestly, mate from high school and once upon a time wasn't so extreme.. oldest mate and all that.

"Begbie's ****in' psycho, man! But... he's a mate, so what can you do?" - Tommy, Trainspotting

I've somewhat tried to take the opportunity of giving him air time to talk it out because you come across a lot of right wing people who talk about 'lefties' as soft who don't debate in good faith. So in a roundabout way, I'm trying to respect his opinions without agreeing with them - if anything to prove that you can in fact not be raving greenie who drowns out others. But heck me it's exhausting, and unfortunately his stance on this Hawthorn issue is going to be what will rule him out as a mate moving forward.

On the surface as well, people love the dude and think he's hilarious, good for a beer etc. and then you dig a little deeper and it turns out he's just bonkers.

 

[Demons09]

Yeah to much here to sweep under the carpet even for the AFL.

 

[Descent]

Honestly, mate from high school and once upon a time wasn't so extreme.. oldest mate and all that.

"Begbie's *in' psycho, man! But... he's a mate, so what can you do?" - Tommy, Trainspotting

I've somewhat tried to take the opportunity of giving him air time to talk it out because you come across a lot of right wing people who talk about 'lefties' as soft who don't debate in good faith. So in a roundabout way, I'm trying to respect his opinions without agreeing with them - if anything to prove that you can in fact not be raving greenie who drowns out others. But * me it's exhausting, and unfortunately his stance on this Hawthorn issue is going to be what will rule him out as a mate moving forward.

On the surface as well, people love the dude and think he's hilarious, good for a beer etc. and then you dig a little deeper and it turns out he's just bonkers.

I’m conflicted. In some ways, I think isolating these people from civil society is the only feasible approach, but I also have enormous respect for your patience and good grace with an old friend who has gone off the rails.

 

[Quazar]

Don’t worry I agree. But this has really pissed me off & I've spent the last 24 hours going over my own footballing history hoping not to come up with anything that has offended players I’ve coached & played with.
It really makes you look in the mirror & want to be better for it.
The joke was to try & lighten my day up to be honest as I’ve had some tough conversations with ex teammates (indigenous & not)last night & today in regards to their experiences.
Fortunately they’ve all taken my call & I wish I knew then what I know now.

we can't make light of what happened but we're not at fault for what HAS happened - those that are need to punished accordingly - we're still entitled to live our lives and still invoke the necessary humour as part of daily occurrences. If we make things better by contributing to a better way of living with all that comes naturally to us (humour is a biggie), then that's the minimal requirement we can all try and and achieve.

To put it bluntly, these monsters will get theirs, because you can't do what they did. Let's make no bones about it, we all f up and make mistakes but this is an entirely different level of behaving and existing and it's beyond pernicious. But there will be consequences, they're on borrowed time

 

[MadEyeEmmy]

 

[MadEyeEmmy]

 

[Quazar]

I need to know about this controversial exit from Debenhams now. Did you steal a candle or something?

lol, dammit - set myself up there, didn't I?!

No no no...it was.......................2 candles I needed the 2nd one in case the first refused to light.

I walked out on them. I had a really rough day (but it wasn't just because of that, the build up to that day had been stress-driven..), it was a Monday and my line manager was an older lady who used to rattle my cage with her nervousness and her corporate suck-up style. That particular day she was just on form and I wasn't in the mood. Bad cocktail. The tills were down and I was just stressed in general, some customers were irate with me for reasons known only to themselves, etc and so forth and I had a mini-epiphany and just said "f this, I'm out"....and I walked out the building with my gear (no, not THAT gear!) and never looked back. Except I was broke for about a month haha. I even signed myself out as was customary if you left the building. But I put something cheeky, like "I'm out, over and..". Can't remember exactly, it was 20 years ago.

Needless to say it went down like a lead balloon because I was a supervisor of my department, but I had had enough. It was time to sail ze boat...

My Dad thought I was a cool rebel (typically for him), mum thought I was an idiot (typical for her) and I had 3 former colleagues phone me that night to check I was 'alright'. Which was nice. And I was (alright), I was just fed up....needed to breathe again. Stupid part is I ended up doing similar jobs for the next 2 years

 

[Superkoops]

Yeah, and the evidence comes from two sources.
1. A report sanctioned by Hawthorn with 3 different partners involved (so not just 1 or even 2 people). There will be multiple emails, phone calls, hospital dates, rental history ect to check this one out.
2. The information researched by the ABC report. There will be multiple emails, phone calls, hospital dates, rental history to collaborate this story already.
They are screwed, which is why a legally prepared response (which both Fagen and Clarkson have submitted) which denied all culpability, was an error in judgement (in my opinion).

Quite a few reports that Fagan may not have been present at some of these meetings. Anyway time will tell and he deserves his opportunity to respond.

I find this pretty damning:
“Former Hawthorn player development manager Jason Burt has taken indefinite leave from his current role at Melbourne private school Caulfield Grammar”

Personally I think A. Clarkson along with Burt and others are in for a world of pain. If the report/investigative information is true it is disgraceful.

 

[Paracleet]

Quite a few reports that Fagan may not have been present at some of these meetings. Anyway time will tell and he deserves his opportunity to respond.

I find this pretty damning:
“Former Hawthorn player development manager Jason Burt has taken indefinite leave from his current role at Melbourne private school Caulfield Grammar”

Personally I think A. Clarkson along with Burt and others are in for a world of pain. If the report/investigative information is true it is disgraceful.

Yeah my take on whats come out so far, and we haven't seen the full report and may never, is it's possible Fagan may wiggle out of it but Clarkson and Burt are absolutely bang to rights.

 

[AstonSouffle]

I’m conflicted. In some ways, I think isolating these people from civil society is the only feasible approach, but I also have enormous respect for your patience and good grace with an old friend who has gone off the rails.

Thanks mate appreciate it, think we've still got a ways to go as a collective - one thing that I've hated out the surge of the likes of Trump, Bolsinaro, to a much lesser extent Morrison.. is how it's empowered people to just say utterly cooked things and just say 'that's my opinion / free speech'.

I would not be surprised at all that there would many people that agree with Hawthorn's approach but would be seething at society that they have to keep 'PC' about it - (that politics thread on our board would have a few). When it's never been about that in my eyes, but rather my absolute confusion that it's seemingly so fundementally difficult to just respect others peacefully, and not support ideals and initiatives that have the capacity to harm.

I really hope this Hawthorn situation develops into a strong line in the sand moment we can all grow from and becomes a historical learning we improve on.

 

[FreoRicci]

Are you honestly this thick or wilfully trolling?

Per my post before, I mistakenly thought Kennett was holding a black Chihuahua at first glance. Then realised it was the toy instead. That's my bad, I admit that. Definitely wrong.

 

[Purple Jesus]

* me dead, discussed with who thing with a mate who legit said 'This is the price of success, and the coaches would of had a reason to intervene'.

This same mate has said these things over the last few years.

• Nothing wrong with protestors showing Dan Andrews getting hung - it's the will of the people.
• Donald Trump is brilliant.
• Why should I stay with my current missues when I could get a younger version I'd be able to more easily control.
• Privatise medicare, all people should pay for their own health insurance.
• Due process is red tape and the (Liberal) government should be able to use their money on whatever they want, it's what they were voted in for.

Is it wrong for me to consider that my mate is barking mad and to think that he needs to pull his head in?

Just to really hammer home my confusion, he isn't even white so fk knows how he got these values.

But my point is - there's people out there that think this Hawthorn business is acceptable and that's... quite scary.

Sounds like you need a new mate tbh.

 

[FreoRicci]

Quite a few reports that Fagan may not have been present at some of these meetings. Anyway time will tell and he deserves his opportunity to respond.

I find this pretty damning:
“Former Hawthorn player development manager Jason Burt has taken indefinite leave from his current role at Melbourne private school Caulfield Grammar”

Personally I think A. Clarkson along with Burt and others are in for a world of pain. If the report/investigative information is true it is disgraceful.

The curiosity of how they can just sweep this under the carpet by just stating lack of evidence or deny of what was said. Internally the coaches will have to admit to what they said and deny publicly.

 

[Dump Truck]

Today in the U18 game there was a play where Binns met Cleanly and neither won.
This is true balance in life.

 

[gungho]

Nice bit of proactive leadership from the club, now let’s cross to that fine fellow mr Trevor Nisbitt…

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Freddy said he has Clark over 20m but Jordan would catch him in 100m

Hmm, interesting!

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Your right I think.
I get the feeling there will be an apology of sorts from them both, but it will be along the lines of trying to father figures to these players & perhaps crossing that line, not realising the harm they caused.
AFL will come out with further comments on how we need to do better, offer a token solution & they all move on.
It’s going to be s**t, I really do hope it’s not the case.

If that happens I'm out. I'm not going to support a league that is corrupt in every, single aspect.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

We did almost do a bet somewhere didnt we?

I swear I made a really bad one in the year somewhere on here but am scared to go looking haha

You bet another poster that Fremantle would make the finals, after the string of losses we endured in the back half of the season.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You bet another poster that Fremantle would make the finals, after the string of losses we endured in the back half of the season.

Ah yeah, that wasnt a bet as much as it was trying to make a dufus look as dufusy as possible

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Ah yeah, that wasnt a bet as much as it was trying to make a dufus look as dufusy as possible

Lol, I liked what you stood to lose though. You were going to have to go picketting at Cockburn HQ! LOLZ

 

[WaywardSonSon]

For those that weren't aware that that tool Clarkson was also a coward puncher!