Non-Lions discussion 2021

[Gadzorks]

These new rules going to throw up lots of upsets, could easily have Carlton, Gold Coast and Sydney in the finals on current (albeit limited) form.

If be happy to see any team replacing Richmond and Geelong in the finals. So over them.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Since when can you just drop the ball onto the ground though? For example you take possession, noone is around you. You just drop the ball to the ground. Surely that's illegal if you don't kick or handball it away?

Nothing in the rules about incorrect disposal outside of when a player has been legally tackled. The rules do mention that a player can't throw the ball and defines throwing as being "...given its ordinary meaning, but also includes the act of propelling the football with one or both hands in a scooping motion" which I wouldn't say necessarily included dropping the ball by definition.

I'm assuming the belief behind these rule definitions is that it wouldn't be much of an advantage to just be able to drop the ball whenever considering the player wouldn't have much control on where the ball went. Compare to this to a player being able to use a "scooping motion" to throw the ball forward in front of themselves to help avoid traffic or whatever.

And in the end it's not like players are penalised for dropping the ball now due to wet conditions or poor handling when not being tackled now.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Since when can you just drop the ball onto the ground though? For example you take possession, noone is around you. You just drop the ball to the ground. Surely that's illegal if you don't kick or handball it away?

The ball came loose as the result of a bump. It’s play on. It would only be a free kick if it was during a tackle - and as he was never held, he should never have been free-kicked.

Incorrect disposal in a open play or no prior htb situation only covers intentional throws or handing the ball to another player.

 

[Sanchez365]

Yeah I had a proper read of the rules and was surprised there's no "illegal disposal" not associated with holding the ball. Thanks for not being too savage ZoBlitz Mr Ripper

The question ultimately comes down to if you think what Butler did was a bump or a tackle. I feel like his intention was to tackle, and he had both hands around Ward when he cannoned into him, but it was the force of the bump of his body that caused Ward to incorrectly dispose of the ball. It's a real 50/50 one, that normally would probably be called play on.

 

[M Malice]

I’ll say it every year.

Wish we had drafted Oscar Allen in 2017.

Nahhh said it at draft time 2017. Been saying since.

Yer I do recall your continued like of Oscar Allen, I liked him too in his draft year although he went at selection 21 which means we would of needed to use either of our previous 2 selections on him, which would have meant passing on one of Zac Bailey(15) or Brandon Starcevich(18) to grab him.

Allen does look like he's going to be a very good player but bear in mind he usually gets the 3rd defender with Darling and Kennedy as the other KPFs in the side.

 

[KissKiss]

I have no problem with that free kick to Butler. He had his arms enough around him that I can take that as a tackle. Ward needed to have way more awareness and its totally on him.

Also I see it like when a player bounces the ball while being touched. It does have the be a full tackle then, just being touched

 

[briztoon]

Yer I do recall your continued like of Oscar Allen, I liked him too in his draft year although he went at selection 21 which means we would of needed to use either of our previous 2 selections on him, which would have meant passing on one of Zac Bailey(15) or Brandon Starcevich(18) to grab him.

Allen does look like he's going to be a very good player but bear in mind he usually gets the 3rd defender with Darling and Kennedy as the other KPFs in the side.

I would have taken Allen over Starcevich. He would have got the second or third defender here, playing with Hipwood and McStay.

He’s a really smart forward, knows when and where to lead, and is a strong mark. Capable back up ruck as well.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I would have taken Allen over Starcevich. He would have got the second or third defender here, playing with Hipwood and McStay.

He’s a really smart forward, knows when and where to lead, and is a strong mark. Capable back up ruck as well.

Were there any concerns of flight risk being that he's from Perth?

 

[jackess]

I would have taken Allen over Starcevich. He would have got the second or third defender here, playing with Hipwood and McStay.

He’s a really smart forward, knows when and where to lead, and is a strong mark. Capable back up ruck as well.

In terms of needs at the time and probably still we were crying out for a big bodied mid with a bit of acceleration rather than a third tall forward.

So hard to predict though how it would've turned out

 

[martinson]

In terms of needs at the time and probably still we were crying out for a big bodied mid with a bit of acceleration rather than a third tall forward.

So hard to predict though how it would've turned out

There's more red faces over draft choices than I've had hot dinners.

We've been getting it mostly right of recent years . If Ely Smith and Tom Joyce can make players we'll have turned not much into something there.

 

[briztoon]

In terms of needs at the time and probably still we were crying out for a big bodied mid with a bit of acceleration rather than a third tall forward.

So hard to predict though how it would've turned out

And we’re still waiting for that mid as far as I can see.

Much better option than Fullarton and Ballenden.

 

[briztoon]

Were there any concerns of flight risk being that he's from Perth?

None mentioned at the time. Quite the opposite

 

[KissKiss]

And we’re still waiting for that mid as far as I can see.

Much better option than Fullarton and Ballenden.

But they were also academy and rookie pickups. So done on the cheap which is another factor to take into account. (Im not really disagreeing with you though)

 

[BigCat2]

In terms of needs at the time and probably still we were crying out for a big bodied mid with a bit of acceleration rather than a third tall forward.

So hard to predict though how it would've turned out

We knew we had Ballenden and Payne as academy picks, and we had a clear need for midfielder (esp inside) at the time. While Starcevich was less known (at least on BF), it was hard to argue against the type of player selected.

 

[Mr Ripper]

I have no problem with that free kick to Butler. He had his arms enough around him that I can take that as a tackle. Ward needed to have way more awareness and its totally on him.

Also I see it like when a player bounces the ball while being touched. It does have the be a full tackle then, just being touched

Rule book says otherwise

 

[dlanod]

Rule book says otherwise

I think this has to be your most favourite day on BF, posting screenshots of the rulebook.

 

[Mr Ripper]

I think this has to be your most favourite day on BF, posting screenshots of the rulebook.

I’ll happily whip it out when the occasion demands it.

 

[Sanchez365]

I’ll happily whip it out when the occasion demands it.

It's funny how often you think you know the rules, then the book slaps you across the face. They should have them under every seat at the game so the punters stop bad mouthing the umps so much.

On a tangent, had holding the ball always had a prior opportunity concept? Or has that been brought in over the "modern" era (last 20 years)?

 

[Mr Ripper]

It's funny how often you think you know the rules, then the book slaps you across the face. They should have them under every seat at the game so the punters stop bad mouthing the umps so much.

On a tangent, had holding the ball always had a prior opportunity concept? Or has that been brought in over the "modern" era (last 20 years)?

Introduced in 1996

 

[briztoon]

But they were also academy and rookie pickups. So done on the cheap which is another factor to take into account. (Im not really disagreeing with you though)

I’m not sure of your point here.

At that point in the draft, where Starcevich was drafted, it’s about drafting best talent available, and a little bit about club needs.

At the time, I thought there were two clear standout talents on board, Oscar Allen and James Worpel.

After trading Schache just a few weeks before, we should have been in the market for a tall forward.

And our midfield was crying out for a big bodied mid who wins the ball at the coal face.


I liked a fair bit of what I saw from Starcevich last year, but I don’t believe he’ll ever become a midfielder. I don’t believe he has the nous to hunt the ball playing midfield.

For me, he’s very much a confidence player. When he believes in himself, he backs himself and he plays well, really well at times. When he gets down on himself, OR the team is playing poorly, he withdraws in to himself, and his game goes missing.


One of the key attributes of our drafting, that has been spoken about by both David Noble and Stephen Conole, has been to draft leaders, players who posses that internal drive to improve themselves, and have self belief that they can take the game on and drag their teammates with them.

Oscar Allen was one of the standout players from his draft year with those attributes.

 

[Tom14]

I’m not sure of your point here.

At that point in the draft, where Starcevich was drafted, it’s about drafting best talent available, and a little bit about club needs.

At the time, I thought there were two clear standout talents on board, Oscar Allen and James Worpel.

After trading Schache just a few weeks before, we should have been in the market for a tall forward.

And our midfield was crying out for a big bodied mid who wins the ball at the coal face.


I liked a fair bit of what I saw from Starcevich last year, but I don’t believe he’ll ever become a midfielder. I don’t believe he has the nous to hunt the ball playing midfield.

For me, he’s very much a confidence player. When he believes in himself, he backs himself and he plays well, really well at times. When he gets down on himself, OR the team is playing poorly, he withdraws in to himself, and his game goes missing.


One of the key attributes of our drafting, that has been spoken about by both David Noble and Stephen Conole, has been to draft leaders, players who posses that internal drive to improve themselves, and have self belief that they can take the game on and drag their teammates with them.

Oscar Allen was one of the standout players from his draft year with those attributes.

If we get the Starcevich from last years qualifying final more often, I'll hold no regrets on passing on Allen or any others available. He was hard in the contest, intercepted the ball, and rebounded effectively.

At the moment his form really doesn't hit that height very often but he has had only one full season in the senior team so there is still time to get that consistency.

 

[briztoon]

Carlton doing Carlton things.

 

[pulpdriver]

Even with the high quality inclusions Carlton don't look close to a top 4 team.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Too many mercenaries playing for paychecks.

 

[pulpdriver]

Pendles is so super sexy. Not good for Carlton that he was the only man that really wanted that ball after two spilled contests.

Whoa, that's a good goal.