Non Lions Discussion 2024

[dlanod]

While it looks like a huge win for the Blues, no one knows who 'wins' the trade period for years sometimes. What if 3 is a flop and 12 turns out to be a gun?

Then you should've picked the player at 12 at 3 instead.

Pick 3 gives you a much better chance to get that gun or very good player compared to pick 12.

 

[McIvor]

I know Grant Thomas always rubbed people the wrong way, but I think a lot of that was to do with the fact that he called it how he saw it and wasn't afraid to say what a lot thought but were too concerned for their own standing in the game to say it.

Anyway, Grant was again spot on on Trade Radio earlier about the Saints

 

[Nathan Barley]

I know Grant Thomas always rubbed people the wrong way, but I think a lot of that was to do with the fact that he called it how he saw it and wasn't afraid to say what a lot thought but were too concerned for their own standing in the game to say it.

Anyway, Grant was again spot on on Trade Radio earlier about the Saints

Does he suggest any bold decisions which will turn them into a premiership team?

 

[mpal6]

Baker is not contracted.

I don't think walking players to PSD is that realistic if they are high profile (particularly because I think Baker doesn't want to burn bridges with Richmond), but if the cost of getting Baker is downgrading from pick 3 to pick 12 then it isn't worth it for West Coast. Owies could have been picked up as a DFA though!

Their cupboard is bare outside of Harley in terms of young talent. Still a bit of hope for Chesser and Hewett I guess, but Ginbey was very underwhelming.

Don't do the trade if it costs you pick 3. Don't muck around in the dealings re Barass leading to hawthorn trading pick 14 to Carlton meaning you were stuck with worse leverage.

Basically have to hold out for two future firsts for Barass now, which presumably they'd use to chase Warner. I think they'd have been better off with a net result of:

In: Baker, future second from Hawthorn (assuming they could get 14 plus a F2 for Barass)
Out: Barass

Now, they've downgraded from 3-12 and have to do brinksmanship hoping for what most think would be two late future 1s from Hawthorn and Carlton. If they end up having to give back a future pick to hawthorn to get the two F1s, then its an even worse deal.

Totally agree. West Coast have stuck their neck out to Baker making a commitment to him while he was super invested in making sure Richmond gets good compensation - which I read in few posts/reports - that's a massive red flag for starters. There's zero leverage from West Coast's perspective at that point and they decided to go through with it anyway.

Owies would've been available for free by delisted period 2 or 3. No one was even seriously considering him, West Coast could've got him via PSD. It's as if Carlton literally picked something from their recycle bin (as good as Owies has been for last 2 years, they didn't want him anymore really) and added him as part of the deal.

They've thrown away pick 3 for these two players and a downgrade to pick 12. Atrocious trading.

 

[Tom14]

Totally agree. West Coast have stuck their neck out to Baker making a commitment to him while he was super invested in making sure Richmond gets good compensation - which I read in few posts/reports - that's a massive red flag for starters. There's zero leverage from West Coast's perspective at that point and they decided to go through with it anyway.

Owies would've been available for free by delisted period 2 or 3. No one was even seriously considering him, West Coast could've got him via PSD. It's as if Carlton literally picked something from their recycle bin (as good as Owies has been for last 2 years, they didn't want him anymore really) and added him as part of the deal.

They've thrown away pick 3 for these two players and a downgrade to pick 12. Atrocious trading.

Even if someone more appealing came over the top of them to get Owies in the DFA period - west coast shouldn't care. He is not a player that moves the needle, nice to have but at their stage of list build not critical.

I've seen some people I like who are higher on the trade, largely because they rate Baker. I think Baker is fine to good, but again not someone that west coast should be committing to.

 

[McIvor]

Even if someone more appealing came over the top of them to get Owies in the DFA period - west coast shouldn't care. He is not a player that moves the needle, nice to have but at their stage of list build not critical.

I've seen some people I like who are higher on the trade, largely because they rate Baker. I think Baker is fine to good, but again not someone that west coast should be committing to.

Not sure if its happened yet, but I, probably like every Eagles fans is waiting with baited breath for Don Pike or someone senior from the club come out and make everyone understand their reasoning b/c having read the Eagles board they are baying for blood and want answers to make sense of this debacle.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Not sure if its happened yet, but I, probably like every Eagles fans is waiting with baited breath for Don Pike or someone senior from the club come out and make everyone understand their reasoning b/c having read the Eagles board they are baying for blood and want answers to make sense of this debacle.

He basically said they had to make a trade for Baker happen after they committed to him and pick 12 was still going to get a talented kid

 

[Nathan Barley]

I honestly think it doesn't look too bad

We gave up pick 12 for Charlie which seemed overs at the time.

You get a talented footballer wanting to join your club, you make it happen

 

[Hollow Knight]

He basically said they had to make a trade for Baker happen after they committed to him and pick 12 was still going to get a talented kid

Yeah wasn't an impressive explanation... basically "we really went all in on making promises to Baker and we were blindsided by the Hawks trading out pick 14".

In short... "we kinda messed things up a bit"

 

[mpal6]

Not sure if its happened yet, but I, probably like every Eagles fans is waiting with baited breath for Don Pike or someone senior from the club come out and make everyone understand their reasoning b/c having read the Eagles board they are baying for blood and want answers to make sense of this debacle.

Yeah West Coast trading thread has audio from Pyke explaining how they wanted middle age bracket players etc. They also have one poster from inner sanctum it seems. He's across trading decisions, sharing feedback, defending it and so on.

One particular post from this inner sanctum person was quite interesting - he/she mentioned if Sydney won the Grandfinal, WC would be in a much happier place atm. May be Warner would've asked for a trade one year early? They would've got it done for pick 3? no idea but few different tangents there.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yeah wasn't an impressive explanation... basically "we really went all in on making promises to Baker and we were blindsided by the Hawks trading out pick 14".

In short... "we kinda messed things up a bit"

But also you just have to get the deal done sometimes

We'll have to wait to see what happens with Barrass

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think it's similar to our list build. We were happy to pay a big price for Charlie because we locked away a dangerous small forward for our next premiership tilt. West Coast might have found their next forward flank and midfield rotation for their next run at a permiership

 

[Tom14]

I honestly think it doesn't look too bad

We gave up pick 12 for Charlie which seemed overs at the time.

You get a talented footballer wanting to join your club, you make it happen

We didn't trade down from pick 1 to do it, and we still had two more picks in the teens. West coast have a pick in the 20s and that's it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We didn't trade down from pick 1 to do it, and we still had two more picks in the teens. West coast have a pick in the 20s and that's it.

Not saying it was an equivalent deal but at the time most fans (including me) had assumed we'd pay a smaller price and were disappointed. In hindsight though it was probably best to just ensure you get the proven AFL footballer in the door and do what you can in the draft

 

[Tom14]

Not saying it was an equivalent deal but at the time most fans (including me) had assumed we'd pay a smaller price and were disappointed. In hindsight though it was probably best to just ensure you get the proven AFL footballer in the door and do what you can in the draft

Totally, my point would be that at that time we had already taken a heap of draft picks and were locked into a few more. We had the assets to trade for Charlie, and the drafts back then didn't have NGAs to worry about in addition to academies and F/Ss diluting the pool.

WCE have taken chesser, hewett, ginbey and Reid, Harley aside we’ve haven’t seen much at all. They’ll add a player at around pick 14-15 this year. I’m pretty out on Ginbey and Hewett and Chesser have already had significant injury issues.

By this point we had added hipwood, clug and berry as first round picks and would add in 3 more. Our overall list probably was better at that stage too with Harris being young, zork in his prime etc.

 

[mpal6]

I think it's similar to our list build. We were happy to pay a big price for Charlie because we locked away a dangerous small forward for our next premiership tilt. West Coast might have found their next forward flank and midfield rotation for their next run at a permiership

Charlie was 23 and didn't take full flight when we got him. He was 2IC to Betts in Adelaide forward line, his claim to fame was kicking 5 in a prelim. He was high potential at that stage.

Baker is turning 27 in January, Owies is turning 28 in March. At best they'll need to be replaced when West Coast is ready for a premiership tilt. If they were 23-24-25 your logic sounds fair but they're not.

 

[briztoon]

I think it's similar to our list build. We were happy to pay a big price for Charlie because we locked away a dangerous small forward for our next premiership tilt. West Coast might have found their next forward flank and midfield rotation for their next run at a permiership

Cameron was also 4 years younger than Baker.

Fair chance Baker’s no even on their list when they’re competing for the top 8 again.

 

[briztoon]

Over 100 pages on the WC trade thread, since the Baker & pick 3 trade was rumoured last night.

 

[mpal6]

Just waiting for Geelong to do a 17 for Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

and F1 for Oliver to win the trade week. Yikes !

 

[Nathan Barley]

Just waiting for Geelong to do a 17 for Bailey Smith and F1 for Oliver to win the trade week. Yikes !

Followed by a record amount of drug testing

 

[Tom14]

Totally, my point would be that at that time we had already taken a heap of draft picks and were locked into a few more. We had the assets to trade for Charlie, and the drafts back then didn't have NGAs to worry about in addition to academies and F/Ss diluting the pool.

WCE have taken chesser, hewett, ginbey and Reid, Harley aside we’ve haven’t seen much at all. They’ll add a player at around pick 14-15 this year. I’m pretty out on Ginbey and Hewett and Chesser have already had significant injury issues.

By this point we had added hipwood, clug and berry as first round picks and would add in 3 more. Our overall list probably was better at that stage too with Harris being young, zork in his prime etc.

Also, Baker will be 27 round 1 next year. Charlie was 23 round 1 2018.

 

[dlanod]

Followed by a record amount of drug testing

"Yep, this drug is pretty good. This one's fine. This shit's tops. Nah, skip this stuff."

 

[Nathan Barley]

"Yep, this drug is pretty good. This one's fine. This shit's tops. Nah, skip this stuff."

Should be saving these for the gameday threads

 

[Tom14]

 

[Tom14]

To the Port board!