Maybe not. All we know is that three judges gave Chapman BOG and one judge gave Gram BOG. So that means Gram picked up 6 votes from up to four judges but it could have been just the same three who preferred Chapman, each giving him 2 votes. And therefore, the remaining judge mathematically at least, could have awarded his 3, 2, 1 to neither Chapman or Gram. Either way, if all five judges were asked to choose between Chapman and Gram, we have a definite 3-1 with the last judge being irrelevant to the result.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Norm Smith Controversy.
- Thread starter manicmagpie
- Start date
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Maybe not. All we know is that three judges gave Chapman BOG and one judge gave Gram BOG. So that means Gram picked up 6 votes from up to four judges but it could have been just the same three who preferred Chapman, each giving him 2 votes. And therefore, the remaining judge mathematically at least, could have awarded his 3, 2, 1 to neither Chapman or Gram. Either way, if all five judges were asked to choose between Chapman and Gram, we have a definite 3-1 with the last judge being irrelevant to the result.
dont need to imagine. that's what they did for 3 quarters of a century..Can you imagine if they did that for Brownlows?
some time in the 80s/90s they went back and retrospectively awarded brownlows to all players who had lost on the countback..
Maybe Gram will get a Norm in 75 years
I thought I read somewhere that all 5 judges gave Gram votes... not sure though. Either way, it matters not, as 3 will get Chapman across the line.
Mop
Not anymore
Re: norm smith
What happens is they do a countback, as has been said.
If it were still even at that point then the chairperson (In this year's case, John Worsfold) would get the deciding vote.
There are no ties.
Yes.
What happens is they do a countback, as has been said.
If it were still even at that point then the chairperson (In this year's case, John Worsfold) would get the deciding vote.
There are no ties.
No. You gave the reason that Chapman won in your post,so what don't you understand. Seems like you are confusing yourself!
Papa Juggs
Hall of Famer
- Banned
- #58
Chapman won because of his gamebreaker goals.
Doesn't mean that Joel Corey was not BOG.
Doesn't mean that Joel Corey was not BOG.
TigerAZZ
Rookie
If Saints had hung on for a couple of minutes longer, Gram would have a Norm Smith medal.
BOG for mine.
BOG for mine.
Maybe if Richmond just hang son for a couple of minutes at some stage they might even win a game!
- Banned
- #61
My top 3:
3 votes Ablett
2 votes Chapman
1 vote Taylor
Gram unlucky & probably 4th best (admit I am bias)
Chapman was a deserving winner.
3 votes Ablett
2 votes Chapman
1 vote Taylor
Gram unlucky & probably 4th best (admit I am bias)
Chapman was a deserving winner.
The bigger controversy is how Whateley was made one of the judges - especially after he didn't even give Ryder a single vote on Anzac Day.
He also supports Geelong, and it'd surely be hard for anybody to give a 3-2-1 when they've been calling the game play-by-play (as opposed to simply expert commentary) on radio all day. There's every chance his voting (even if completely subconsciously) was influenced by the views he heard from the expert commentators on his radio station.
Very weird decision to give him a say in this award afaic.
for the record he went
3 Taylor
2 Rooke
1 Gram
so there goes that ridiculous theory.
Gram got 2, 3, 1, 1, 2
voting below
John Worsfold (chairman): P Chapman, J Gram, J Corey
Gerard Healy: J Gram, J Bartel, G Ablett
Nathan Buckley: P Chapman, D Milburn, J Gram
Gerard Whateley: H Taylor, M Rooke, J Gram
Jason Dunstall: P Chapman, J Gram, G Ablett
the right bloke won it. gee i tbhought bartel was close to bog to be honest
It does;
3 Judges had Chapman in there top 3.
5 Judges had Gram in there top 3.
I hold no grudges to Chappy being given the NS as I didn't know that they used the countback system. I just thought they convinently chose who was BOG according to which side won. These threads wouldnt of been created if Whately or Healy had given a singular vote to Chapman.
OldStyle2007
Club Legend
Yeah, what 'controversy'??
Yes Gram was good. But do people really want him up with Buckley and Gazza Snr as one of the few losers to win a Norm Smith? He's nowhere near that league
I think for a losing player to win a Norm Smith you need an absolute standout performance. E.g. Ablett's 9 goals in losing team.
Gram was good, I agree. But let's face it: not great
To the victors go the spoils
Sidenote: Does anybody know if they still submit their votes before the final siren?
Yes Gram was good. But do people really want him up with Buckley and Gazza Snr as one of the few losers to win a Norm Smith? He's nowhere near that league
I think for a losing player to win a Norm Smith you need an absolute standout performance. E.g. Ablett's 9 goals in losing team.
Gram was good, I agree. But let's face it: not great
To the victors go the spoils
Sidenote: Does anybody know if they still submit their votes before the final siren?
What on earth are you on about?
I know how he and the panel voted. And my comments stand, accordingly.
As others have pointed out, if he'd even given Chapman a single vote, then there wouldn't have been any so-called controversy in the first place.
It was just like what happened with Ryder on Anzac Day when he failed to give him so much as a single vote either.
- Banned
- #70
I backed Chappy to win so i was happy, but i thought Taylor deserved it. Did an outstanding job, and if i was voting he would have got my 3.
Gram was great as well, but Chappy kicked goals and set them up, Taylor stopped the best player in the comp. Gram just didn't seem to do the same amount these two did.
Gram was great as well, but Chappy kicked goals and set them up, Taylor stopped the best player in the comp. Gram just didn't seem to do the same amount these two did.
Mad Max was BOG...... he got the Cats on track after a very shaky start from both sides and was outstanding all match. Unfortunately the memory span of some judges only lasts about 10 minutes(which is the only reason Hodge ever got his Norm Smith). That said Paul Chapman was still a very worthy winner, as would have been Jason Gram if the Saints had won.
Re: norm smith
Easy.
Geelong had a number of contributors - Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Chapman, Taylor. No single outstanding player.
Gram was far and away the Saints best player.
Easy.
Geelong had a number of contributors - Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Chapman, Taylor. No single outstanding player.
Gram was far and away the Saints best player.
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yes it can. you can be the standout player on the ground if your team loses.
The norm smith is Best On Ground. Not BOG for the Winning Team.
It is BOG. (full stop).
Gram was $80/1 as well
