NOW to sometime later in the year (maybe) - Talk about anything

Remove this Banner Ad

The other bit I found interesting is that D4 clubs were not happy with a 7-team comp and deserved the future of 8 teams and no byes. Which is totally fair enough. But does the EFNL genuinely think there'll be 8 clubs in D4 next year?

Glen Waverley currently have no coach, with their senior coach having gone to the new club that the EFNL admitted in Oakleigh District. And he's taken a huge number of players with him. Another group of GW players (incl the captain) have left due to the video incident. They already forfeited reserves games this year. Are the EFNL suggesting there'll be 8 clubs in D4 next year? Because it seems like a longshot.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Guess what, it's now a massive comp (personally I think too big) and that means moving up is very, very hard.
Click to expand...

I heard once that apparently there was a proposal that was raised not long after World War II whereby all Melbourne metro football leagues would have been combined and played under the one umbrella in a similar fashion to English soccer's 'pyramid' system.

The VFL was to be the top tier, with the VFA as the second level. Below that was going to be a competition with four geographic-based structures (North, South, East and West) with every club assigned to a zone. Based on the number of clubs in all the competitions in the late 1940s, we could have had 10 or more divisions in some of those zones, each with 10 clubs!

There was scope for the premier club in Division 1 of each region to find their way into the VFA (not sure whether they were through playoffs with the VFA wooden-spooner, promotion-relegation or via a vote).

In theory, that proposal could have seen a club rise from the depths of East Division 7 or South Division 5 to the VFL if they were good enough!

I cannot find anything on Trove but I knew someone who had seen the written proposal.

I am pretty sure he said that the plan failed because the VFL did not want any of its clubs dropping out of the top tier (which seems accurate given the league's views on other merger plans over the years).
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Few more good signings, Park Orchards have added James Parsons, ex Geelong AFL and Box Hill last year, still only 25yo.

Berwick have Will Arthurson back from Frankston VFL.

Warrandyte have added Kieran Malone, ex VFL coming off two straight B&Fs in the bush. Also senior players from Montmorency and some Premier clubs, they are looking very strong.

Donvale have Matt Day back from Blackburn / VFL.

Plenty of movement going on.
 
Voice of the G said:
2 stories to this one and I can think of 2 D2 clubs that might have sent out this email.There are clubs out there that have put in the hard work especially off season to win a premiership and perhaps earn promotion.The other side is if the premiers are promoted and the EFNL stick with the top 4 grades being 10 team grades which I like 3 teams from Premier,D1 and D2 will be relegated.Bob interested in your thoughts about Doncaster as 3 teams relegated might effect your club and Cliff perhaps a premiership at EB and no promotion might effect yours.
Click to expand...
If we could win it next year then we could do it again the following year, provided that our players are not poached by higher division clubs.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Oakleigh Districts now announced about 15 Glen Wav players and the coach, incl the captain / "sucker"
Click to expand...
Even the media manager has now jumped ship.

In much better news for Glen Waverley they have announced their coaches for 2023 and they are actually really good appointments in my opinion. Having some previous very respected and liked coaches coming back may be able to halt the exodus a little.
 
adock said:
Even the media manager has now jumped ship.

In much better news for Glen Waverley they have announced their coaches for 2023 and they are actually really good appointments in my opinion. Having some previous very respected and liked coaches coming back may be able to halt the exodus a little.
Click to expand...

It's a bit puzzling really, you want at least 55 players to run a senior club... they probably had 45-ish last year and they look to have lost at least 20. So they'd appear to be a long way off. And now they're announcing Under 19s too? Where are they going to come from?

Or maybe just giving themselves every chance, which is fair enough i guess.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

MortlockWatcher said:
I heard once that apparently there was a proposal that was raised not long after World War II whereby all Melbourne metro football leagues would have been combined and played under the one umbrella in a similar fashion to English soccer's 'pyramid' system.

The VFL was to be the top tier, with the VFA as the second level. Below that was going to be a competition with four geographic-based structures (North, South, East and West) with every club assigned to a zone. Based on the number of clubs in all the competitions in the late 1940s, we could have had 10 or more divisions in some of those zones, each with 10 clubs!

There was scope for the premier club in Division 1 of each region to find their way into the VFA (not sure whether they were through playoffs with the VFA wooden-spooner, promotion-relegation or via a vote).

In theory, that proposal could have seen a club rise from the depths of East Division 7 or South Division 5 to the VFL if they were good enough!

I cannot find anything on Trove but I knew someone who had seen the written proposal.

I am pretty sure he said that the plan failed because the VFL did not want any of its clubs dropping out of the top tier (which seems accurate given the league's views on other merger plans over the years).
Click to expand...
Yes, I've heard a version of this in far more recent times from people working within the industry.

In AFL VICs ideal set up they would like 4 metro leagues(North,South,East,West) with the ammos running separately.

The downside being that we are losing local derbies and asking lower level footballers to travel an hour plus to play teams that never used to be in the same comp.

The big missing piece of victorian football is the replacement for what used to be the VFA.

With the VFL now becoming pretty much an AFL reserves comp there is no premier statewide football league that represents the various regions.

There really needs to be a premier state league that represents modern population spread. Ideally it would be run by an independent body and would be in charge of local footy in this state.
A Premier state league with a healthy salary cap like the SANFL has would also capture a lot of the big money players that currently filter straight out of professional football and into the local leagues, putting pressure on local level salary caps etc.

Its no coincidence that local football spending skyrocketed around the same time the AFL took over the VFA/VFL, effectively removing an entire level of football in Victoria.
 
I don't necessarily agree in relation to the loss of local derbies.

If you took the original plan into the modern day, we are actually not too far from it. In 1947, there were around 20 senior suburban competitions in Melbourne and today there are six excluding the Riddell league (EFNL, EDFL, NFNL, SFNL, VAFA, WRFL)

We already have the Northern, Eastern and Southern leagues in place that were proposed and if the WRFL and EDFL merged, we would have the Western league. The VAFA would not be interested, though some of the district/suburban clubs might take an interest.

You obviously won't have the AFL in the modern day setup, but all you would need to do would be to add a VFA competition above the four leagues and the structure would be right.

The VFA would be the only competition whereby clubs do any significant travel - the other leagues would still be geographically based. Most local rivalries would not be lost unless clubs were part of the VFA.

While we are at it, we can get rid of this "premier league" nonsense:

Tier 1: VFA
Tier 2: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 1
Tier 3: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 2
Tier 4: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 3
etc. etc.

VAFA separate from the structure.
 
Tackle Bag said:
Yes, I've heard a version of this in far more recent times from people working within the industry.

In AFL VICs ideal set up they would like 4 metro leagues(North,South,East,West) with the ammos running separately.

The downside being that we are losing local derbies and asking lower level footballers to travel an hour plus to play teams that never used to be in the same comp.

The big missing piece of victorian football is the replacement for what used to be the VFA.

With the VFL now becoming pretty much an AFL reserves comp there is no premier statewide football league that represents the various regions.

There really needs to be a premier state league that represents modern population spread. Ideally it would be run by an independent body and would be in charge of local footy in this state.
A Premier state league with a healthy salary cap like the SANFL has would also capture a lot of the big money players that currently filter straight out of professional football and into the local leagues, putting pressure on local level salary caps etc.

Its no coincidence that local football spending skyrocketed around the same time the AFL took over the VFA/VFL, effectively removing an entire level of football in Victoria.
Click to expand...

1. VFA

[Bottom 2 relegated, Premiers promoted]

2. VFA D2 South East / VFA D2 North West

[Bottom 2 relegated, Premiers promoted]

3. Southern / Eastern / Northern / Western, each with as many divisions as required.

4 comps into 2, into 1

You need to have promotion and relegation at all levels to keep the league strong, weakening clubs need to be replaced by strong clubs.

Of course you’d need the AFL clubs to leave and have their own reserves, and you’d need to merge the WRFL / EDFL / NFNL into two leagues, Northern and Western.

For the majority of clubs it’d be the same but those at the top would go further up. Only the Top 10 (VFA) would be city-wide, and would include any existing VFL clubs that wanted to join initially.

VFA D2 would be (at absolute worst) Coldstream to Frankston, 55 - 65 mins. And Laurimer to Werribee, 65 - 70 mins. That’s the worst case, if the most outlying clubs made that level. We already cover Coldstream to Beaconsfield which is around 50 mins.
 
Last edited:
My only worry is that, like in the 1980s, the VFA Second Division could be a problem.

In the 1980s, there was no exposure to the media through TV and minimal coverage other than local newspapers. It became a wasteland and clubs either went broke and folded or jumped out in order to survive (in one case, Mordialloc quit the VFA and joined the SFL a couple of rounds into a season).

The problem I see with a Division 2 concept is that the clubs might get lost between the top tier of the VFA and the First Division of the local league and stagnate. If they are mid-ladder year on year it might be harmful in terms of recruitment and other areas. That said, the regionalisation might work compared to the VFA matches that drew paltry crowds in the 80s. I am working on a book on the 1981 VFA season and the Sunshine-Mordialloc match drew just 250 people and Box Hill and Yarraville also drew some ordinary crowds to their home matches.

I agree with having two clubs relegated from the VFA and you could have the four premiers play off for the two spots the weekend after their Grand Finals, e.g. Eastern v Northern and Southern v Western (possibly rotated year to year). Both games would have a spot in the VFA on the line and could even be played as a double header.
 
Last edited:
MortlockWatcher said:
My only worry is that, like in the 1980s, the VFA Second Division could be a problem.

In the 1980s, there was no exposure to the media through TV and minimal coverage other than local newspapers. It became a wasteland and clubs either went broke and folded or jumped out in order to survive (in one case, Mordialloc quit the VFA and joined the SFL a couple of rounds into a season).

The problem I see with a Division 2 concept is that the clubs might get lost between the top tier of the VFA and the First Division of the local league and stagnate. If they are mid-ladder year on year it might be harmful in terms of recruitment and other areas. That said, the regionalisation might work compared to the VFA matches that drew paltry crowds in the 80s. I am working on a book on the 1981 VFA season and the Sunshine-Mordialloc match drew just 250 people and Box Hill and Yarraville also drew some ordinary crowds to their home matches.

I agree with having two clubs relegated from the VFA and you could have the four premiers play off for the two spots the weekend after their Grand Finals, e.g. Eastern v Northern and Southern v Western (possibly rotated year to year). Both games would have a spot in the VFA on the line and could even be played as a double header.
Click to expand...

I used to follow Camberwell in the 70,s who played D2 and we had good crowds but helped early 70,s till 1980 we were very successful.Can remember Berwick and Kilsyth coming into the VFA but not there to long,perhaps early 70,s.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
I don't necessarily agree in relation to the loss of local derbies.

If you took the original plan into the modern day, we are actually not too far from it. In 1947, there were around 20 senior suburban competitions in Melbourne and today there are six excluding the Riddell league (EFNL, EDFL, NFNL, SFNL, VAFA, WRFL)

We already have the Northern, Eastern and Southern leagues in place that were proposed and if the WRFL and EDFL merged, we would have the Western league. The VAFA would not be interested, though some of the district/suburban clubs might take an interest.

You obviously won't have the AFL in the modern day setup, but all you would need to do would be to add a VFA competition above the four leagues and the structure would be right.

The VFA would be the only competition whereby clubs do any significant travel - the other leagues would still be geographically based. Most local rivalries would not be lost unless clubs were part of the VFA.

While we are at it, we can get rid of this "premier league" nonsense:

Tier 1: VFA
Tier 2: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 1
Tier 3: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 2
Tier 4: NFNL, EFNL, SFNL. WFL - Division 3
etc. etc.

VAFA separate from the structure.
Click to expand...
My comment around losing the local nature of "local footy" is based on examples like South Yarra playing South Mornington and Cerberus in the bottom division of SFL. Port Melbourne playing Cranbourne isnt what I think local footy should be. If the SEFNL was still around with a second division and the MPNFL added another division (they're trying) then the footprint of the SFNL would be much smaller and clubs wouldn't need to be traveling such long distances.

How far into the hills or south eastern suburbs does the EFNL want to reach before clubs start to take issue?

That's the problem with a 4 league metro system I reckon.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree about the SEFNL. Unfortunately, a couple of clubs will never put themselves back in that scenario and the stubborn southern peninsula clubs will veto another division every time. They should be cut free and revive the Nepean league and let the others join forces with Cranbourne, Berwick, Narre Warren, etc. in a separate two-division competition.

The league boundaries that used to be in play in the VMFL/VCFL era have just been ignored by AFL Vic and we are getting some crazy scenarios nowadays.
 
Tackle Bag said:
My comment around losing the local nature of "local footy" is based on examples like South Yarra playing South Mornington and Cerberus in the bottom division of SFL. Port Melbourne playing Cranbourne isnt what I think local footy should be. If the SEFNL was still around with a second division and the MPNFL added another division (they're trying) then the footprint of the SFNL would be much smaller and clubs wouldn't need to be traveling such long distances.

How far into the hills or south eastern suburbs does the EFNL want to reach before clubs start to take issue?

That's the problem with a 4 league metro system I reckon.
Click to expand...

Port Melbourne and St Kilda City really are outliers as inner inner city... there's no other clubs that close to them so you have to put them somewhere. South Yarra are actually closer to Balwyn than any SFNL club, maybe they should be east, but still a long way from the east too.

Port Colts' closest clubs are definitely the inner WRFL clubs, which is where they always were... but they made the move for the sake of their future and recruiting and so far it looks pretty successful.

South Mornington and Cerberus are out of place. Anyone south of Frankston should be in a Mornington Peninsula country league. Anybody north of of it should be in an expanded SFL or SEFNL. Hasn't happened due to MPNFL empire building. AFL Vic appear to have basically checked out of the whole process and just basically transfer any club wherever they want to go. Fair enough in a way, but self interest rarely results in the best long-term outcome.

I reckon we'll see EFNL clubs be much more careful about bringing in new clubs now that reality has hit and so many are getting relegated with none promoted this year. EFL clubs have largely been asleep at the wheel or too busy focusing on being "the biggest and the best" league over the past 20 years. They've made it much more difficult for themselves to progress. Most seem to have just waved through any new club if there's no immediate impact on them with little thought to the future. i think clubs will be happy to add a couple to D4 but if anybody else wants to get in higher - ie Narre Warren has been talked about - they might find it pretty tough.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
My only worry is that, like in the 1980s, the VFA Second Division could be a problem.

In the 1980s, there was no exposure to the media through TV and minimal coverage other than local newspapers. It became a wasteland and clubs either went broke and folded or jumped out in order to survive (in one case, Mordialloc quit the VFA and joined the SFL a couple of rounds into a season).

The problem I see with a Division 2 concept is that the clubs might get lost between the top tier of the VFA and the First Division of the local league and stagnate. If they are mid-ladder year on year it might be harmful in terms of recruitment and other areas. That said, the regionalisation might work compared to the VFA matches that drew paltry crowds in the 80s. I am working on a book on the 1981 VFA season and the Sunshine-Mordialloc match drew just 250 people and Box Hill and Yarraville also drew some ordinary crowds to their home matches.

I agree with having two clubs relegated from the VFA and you could have the four premiers play off for the two spots the weekend after their Grand Finals, e.g. Eastern v Northern and Southern v Western (possibly rotated year to year). Both games would have a spot in the VFA on the line and could even be played as a double header.
Click to expand...
Promotion and relegation into the VFA is an interesting proposal. Would be exciting for local sides looking to push up.

I reckon Id prefer to keep the state league teams in a stable competition without relegation and try and possibly align these new VFA sides with sides in the NAB under 18 comp where possible.
It would provide an immediate feeder of elite talent to the state league senior sides and there would be cost savings in sharing grounds, staff etc.

Keeping the same teams in the state league ensures every region would have representation and cannot drop out of the comp. It wouldn't be ideal if a side that represented gippsland for example, dropped out and left that region with no representation for years on end.
 
That idea might need to come down to a criteria of performance, finances and facilities.

There are some clubs that are great on the field but have less than ideal off-field facilities and vice versa (some grounds aren't even enclosed to allow charging admission upon entry). You would hate to keep a club in the VFA just because they have sensational facilities and are conveniently located for an Under 18 club but are the perennial whipping boys of the competition.

The other issue I see is that the ambition that dozens of clubs might have to play at the highest level would be roadblocked by a system that prevents promotion/relegation from the VFA.

I think most people here are seeing the VFA as a metropolitan concept and personally I reckon the AFL would want to keep the Under 18s away from AFL Victoria and run the competition itself and potentially link it with the AFL reserves somehow (e.g. AFL clubs being allowed to add players not drafted as supplementary players onto reserves' lists).
 
Last edited:

Remove this Banner Ad

NOW to sometime later in the year (maybe) - Talk about anything

Similar threads

Bunk Moreland
2025 player moves - ins and outs
20 21 22 23 24
Replies
587
Views
52K
Bunk Moreland
Bunk Moreland

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top