NSW Catholic schools looking to dump Rugby League

[1908]

Whinging about attitudes towards incidents in other sports isn't going to change the situation at all.

I have had a look at LU over the past few days and the overwhelming opinion over there is one of a siege mentality - they are out to get us, what about the scandals in the AFL, the media needs to get off RL's back, etc, etc. In other words, denial.

Rugby League has a major image problem at the moment, like it or lump it, and deflecting attention elsewhere isn't going to change a thing.

Fix what you can (ie those things that need attention within your own game) and forget about the external things you can't change (particularly the media and the other codes). Otherwise, the status quo remains.

RL supporters are complaining not about the incidents but why was a report on football attitudes to women focused purely on RL and one incident in particular?

Read what I wrote earlier about RL cleaning up these acts.

Your comments by claiming RL has an image problem, when all sports have issues in all countries, shows that you don't think these happen in your own game. It just hasn't been put under the same microscope.

The start of this thread was about AFL gaining from RL's perceived demise (or is that hoped for).

Besides you've all ignored or defended my questions regarding the AFL.

You guys would melt if your code was put under the same spotlight and I have no doubt the incidents are out there.

Have we forgotten the Adelaide guy, B**k, who admitted bashing his girlfriend and the token hard stance by the club until they had to play Geelong?

Albert Proud glassing females on the Gold Coast.

O'Loughlin and the Adelaide incident.

Already we have a case for a story. All we need is a little more digging, it's out there.

Just as the AFL hides from drugs with their 3 strokes joke.

 

[1908]

I have never commented about Brett Stewart. And if I did, I would be very careful on my use of words because it is subject to charges.

The fact that others may be sloppy in their commenting on that situation is no excuse for you to do the same here.

A perfect example of the siege mentality (bordering on paranoia) that I was referring to in my previous post!

I'm not complaining about your comments it the media reporting and the perception they create.

Remember the innocent Bulldogs who were all tarnished with being called rapists when nothing happened that was illegal. This to sell a few more papers.

 

[RUNVS]

Just as the AFL hides from drugs with their 3 strokes joke.

For years people in the NRL knew about Andrew Johns drug habbits but they said nothing.

 

[1908]

Doesnt mean O'Loughlin did anything wrong (as the police never even interviewd him). The Swans just wanted her to stop dragging his good name through the mud.

Of course

 

[1908]

Yep and this too...has been charged with rape of a 17 year old....

Grow up mate, there has been no charge of rape at all.

You believe all the media hysteria and sensationalism, fool.

 

[sherb]

RL supporters are complaining not about the incidents but why was a report on football attitudes to women focused purely on RL and one incident in particular?

Read what I wrote earlier about RL cleaning up these acts.

Your comments by claiming RL has an image problem, when all sports have issues in all countries, shows that you don't think these happen in your own game. It just hasn't been put under the same microscope.

The start of this thread was about AFL gaining from RL's perceived demise (or is that hoped for).

I live in Sydney, have done so for a long time, and have a fair idea of what is going on up here thanks. When I say that RL has an image problem, I am confident of doing so.

And he bolded bit, with the utmost respect, is just dribble. You have no idea of my view towards, or knowledge of, incidents within the game of Australian Football.

Now if you think the current media attitude towards the game isn't fair, well too bad I guess. As I said before, whinging about it isn't going to change a thing. The media reports on what it wants to report on and I am sure it will continue to do so.

Besides you've all ignored or defended my questions regarding the AFL.

You guys would melt if your code was put under the same spotlight and I have no doubt the incidents are out there.

Have we forgotten the Adelaide guy, B**k, who admitted bashing his girlfriend and the token hard stance by the club until they had to play Geelong?

Albert Proud glassing females on the Gold Coast.

O'Loughlin and the Adelaide incident.

Already we have a case for a story. All we need is a little more digging, it's out there.

Just as the AFL hides from drugs with their 3 strokes joke.

And all this does is back up what I wrote before. What is happening in AFL should be the least of your concerns at present.

You know who you should be directing your anger towards? I'll give you a tip, it isn't the AFL and it isn't the media - rather it is the morons in the playing ranks of RL who have provided the ammunition for the media to jump on issues like this.

If you clean up the behaviour, the problem is all but dispensed with. It isn't rocket science. However if the overwhelming response is to bury heads in the sand and blame everyone else for the problem, well not a lot is going to change.

I watched the Footy Show on Thursday night and the person who impressed me most was Todd Greenberg. If what he said on the night was any indication, he is the type of person who will start steering the game of Rugby League away from issues like this going into the future.

And I don't have an issue with the game itself by the way, I will happily sit down and watch a game of RL. So I am not coming from a position of antagonism whatsoever with my comments.

 

[gostk86]

Rugby League fans are obsessed with gay people for some reason.

lol, Ian Roberts came out remember..that was good time for the game showing it was open to all people

 

[gostk86]

The AFL's elite junior squads have in recent years travelled to South Africa & Ireland as part of their development. Also they get to play competitively against all states & territories of Australia, unlike junior rugby league players whose ability to play competitively within Australia is limited to matches between Qld & NSW (as a point of interest, how many Melbourne-born rugby league players play for the Melbourne Storm?)

storm's sg ball team is 75% local vic players, so its good progress from 1998 where league juniors were basically nothing

FWIW, I would be surprised if when Kieran Jack kicked the winning goal for the Sydney Swans last night that he was feeling any disappointment about missing out on the 'international' opportunities that come with playing rugby league (outside of Australia, NZ & England you can't really describe any other international rugby league teams as being competitive, not even PNG, who were comprehensively thrashed last time they played against Australia).

I dont think Kieran has any regrets about going to afl, in fact he said he was a batter afl player than league player so thats why he kept playing...

 

[RUNVS]

lol, Ian Roberts came out remember..that was good time for the game showing it was open to all people

go over to League Unlimited and tell me that the mjority of NRL fans have no problems with gay people.

 

[gostk86]

For years people in the NRL knew about Andrew Johns drug habbits but they said nothing.

Knights hid it very well im sure the full story will come out one day

 

[gostk86]

go over to League Unlimited and tell me that the mjority of NRL fans have no problems with gay people.

are you saying that majority of league fans are members of LU?

 

[RUNVS]

Knights hid it very well im sure the full story will come out one day

I read somewhere that members of the Kanagroos squad also knew about his drug addiction.

 

[gostk86]

8,000 crowd yesterday? Very true potential. And by the way it looked like 2,000 on tv and that is being generous...

that was a roosters game..they have no fans

Sexual assault will, its RL culture
Crowd fudging
RL footy show to win another logie even though it was about to be axed the last 7 years and has terrible ratings and gets its pantsed pulled down by the AFL footy show week in, week out

all footy codes do crowd fudging dont worry about that lol

where are these terrible ratings? do you have a link?

 

[gostk86]

I read somewhere that members of the Kanagroos squad also knew about his drug addiction.

players dont usually rat out on players so dont think the ARL/NRL can be held responsible for that

 

[1908]

To be fair 1908 is probably the best RL poster on LU. He rarely if ever resorts to the homophobic insults which arethe norm on that forum.

Rugby League fans are obsessed with gay people for some reason.

Are we?????????????

I guess it comes from years of watching Ian Roberts play.

 

[gostk86]

I live in Sydney, have done so for a long time, and have a fair idea of what is going on up here thanks. When I say that RL has an image problem, I am confident of doing so.

And he bolded bit, with the utmost respect, is just dribble. You have no idea of my view towards, or knowledge of, incidents within the game of Australian Football.

Now if you think the current media attitude towards the game isn't fair, well too bad I guess. As I said before, whinging about it isn't going to change a thing. The media reports on what it wants to report on and I am sure it will continue to do so.

i agree about the image problem, the NRL over past few years has done alot of good things, but clubs have been very poor in punishment towards players, i hope the last week will make clubs realize.

I watched the Footy Show on Thursday night and the person who impressed me most was Todd Greenberg. If what he said on the night was any indication, he is the type of person who will start steering the game of Rugby League away from issues like this going into the future.

And I don't have an issue with the game itself by the way, I will happily sit down and watch a game of RL. So I am not coming from a position of antagonism whatsoever with my comments.

Todd came in just before SBW left lol, so he has had a tough job from day 1 but has done amazingly well, Bulldogs have turned around and axed and let go big name players but for future of their club with fans and sponsors they did the right thing, it shows a 'culture' change can happen if right people are in charge of any organization/

 

[1908]

Why did you bring up Brett Stewart? I dont recall anyone starting a thread about him on the main board, i dont even recall anyone discussing what happened to him (or what he did) in any great detail on the main board either.

I raised it a comparison in the reporting when both stories broke.

And in the attitudes of the general public. The soccer player has received virtually zero public condemnation.

 

[sherb]

Todd came in just before SBW left lol, so he has had a tough job from day 1 but has done amazingly well, Bulldogs have turned around and axed and let go big name players but for future of their club with fans and sponsors they did the right thing, it shows a 'culture' change can happen if right people are in charge of any organization/

I am not a Bulldogs supporter (I am a former Wests supporter who by default now has to support Wests Tigers ) but from a distance he seems to have done a pretty fair job with a club which has experienced some real disasters in recent years.

I can only go on what he said on the night, but I found his attitude towards the whole issue to be quite refreshing, particularly when he said that on-field attributes are only part of the criteria to be considered when bringing players into the club (which sounded to me very much like code for a "no ***heads" policy).

 

[Chook Norris]

AFL has higher national TV viewers, and even in NRL heartland, AFL is growing in TV viewing by 8% to NRL's measly 3%.

um care to give some statistics? i have stats that prove the contrary and suggest that nationally, NRL wins.. (don't forget tat NSW and QLD account for over 54% of the entire Australian poulation.

audiences for AFL are growing in NRL heartland by 8%? lol
statistics have shown that in the last 3-4 years since the Swans have sunk, audiences for AFL have also hit rock bottom.. Swans have been beaten in Sydney on TV by every program in its time slot (yep... SBS included - this is a worrying statistic that cannot be ignored)

TV viewership reinforces my point that interest in AFL is going nowhere but down in NSW and QLD
Interest in AFL may have gone up while the Swans were mighty.. but now the real interest has been exposed
NSW and QLD will always be RL heartlands.

 

[cos789]

The soccer player has received virtually zero public condemnation.

Maybe that's because nobody is defending his alleged actions or making comparisons with other codes or it has nothing to do with group mentallity .

.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Difference is the A-League player acted alone (assuming he is guilty) and as far as i know nothing like this has ever happend before. Compare that too the Johns group sex incident where half the team was involved.

Keep in mind the 18yr old A league player wouldnt be the first bloke in society to transgress with a young woman who probably both looked and stated she was older.

 

[RUNVS]

Keep in mind the 18yr old A league player wouldnt be the first bloke in society to transgress with a young woman who probably both looked and stated she was older.

Like the famous song "She Told Me She Was 19"

 

[1908]

Maybe that's because nobody is defending his alleged actions or making comparisons with other codes or it has nothing to do with group mentallity .

.

Or maybe the media are letting it run it's course and media is not reporting it with mass hysteria and sensationalism.........there's a thought.

I see Albert Proud was amaongst the goals last night for the Brisbane Lions, shouldn't he be stood down? Shhhhhhhhhh...don't let anyone know they might put the microscope on us, hey boys

Gees old Heuskus certainly got around:

The World Today - Woman alleges rape by former AFL player

[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1100400.htm]


The World Today - Monday, 3 May , 2004 12:31:22
Reporter: Alison Caldwell
ELIZABETH JACKSON: The Australian Football League is once again having to defend itself over its handling of rape allegations against its players.

An Australian woman has accused former AFL player, Adam Heuskes, of raping her in a London hotel room, while four of his then Brisbane Lions teammates watched on. The woman claims the incident happened in October 1999, when the club was on an end of season trip.

Ten months later, in an unrelated incident, Heuskes faced a charge of raping another woman outside an Adelaide nightclub.

The claims are made in tonight's edition of Four Corners on ABC television.

Heuskes now plays for a suburban Adelaide football club, and has refused to comment, as Alison Caldwell reports.

ALISON CALDWELL: The woman referred to as "Sarah" claims that on October the 6th, 1999, she caught up with a Brisbane Lions team member in a London pub. A friend of her boyfriend since high school, his team was in town on an end of season football trip.

She claims that night at the pub she had to resist the advances of another Brisbane player, Adam Heuskes. With her home some two hours away, her friend invited her to stay in his room that night.

Sarah says she fell asleep, but three hours later that night, she claims she was r*ped by player while at least four of his Brisbane Lions teammates watched on.

Speaking to Four Corners, "Sarah" names Adam Heuskes as the player who r*ped her.

SARAH: I know it was Adam because I met him in the pub earlier when I was completely sober, and I recognised his face when I was lying on my back and he was on top of me. And I did recognise his voice and I know it was him who turned me over and put me on my hands and knees.

ALISON CALDWELL: Tonight's Four Corners program raises serious questions about football rape, hush money and how cases never get to see a jury.

"Sarah" says she reported the attack two weeks later, but by the time Scotland Yard detectives began their investigations, the team was back in Australia. They all disputed the rape claim and no charges were laid.

 

[RUNVS]

I see Albert Proud was amaongst the goals last night for the Brisbane Lions, shouldn't he be stood down? Shhhhhhhhhh...don't let anyone know they might put the microscope on us, hey boys

Bird had many many incidents before he eventually got the sack. Proud as far as i know has only had the one.

 

[1908]

Level headed arguement:

http://www.sbs.com.au/sport/blog/si...fairness-and-the-restoration-of-Matthew-Johns

The fight for truth, fairness and the restoration of Matthew Johns
15 May 2009 | 12:00 - By Jesse Fink

Amid recent arguments about consent and morality, has Australia become a vigilante state?

So now come the revelations that "Clare", the eye of the storm in the Four Corners program "The Code of Silence", allegedly "bragged" to her workmates about having sex with Cronulla Sharks players, including Matthew Johns, the day after that infamous incident in the Racecourse Hotel in Christchurch in 2002.

Tania Boyd, a cash controller at the hotel, last night told Channel Nine: "She was absolutely excited about the fact: she was bragging about it to the staff and quite willing, openly saying how she had sex with several players. We were quite disgusted about it… there was no trauma whatsoever.

"I'm disgusted that a woman can all of a sudden change her story from having a great time to then turning it into a terrible crime.

"We all just thought it was hilarious until five days later the police came to work and were horrified she had now changed her story to say she was now a victim of crime."
In a separate interview with the Sydney Morning Herald, she went further, claiming Clare boasted, "I was with the boys from Cronulla Sharks last night, I don't even know how many" and that she "told police I thought it was all made up, and I believe many of the other staff told them the same thing."

If Boyd's account is correct, and which seems to square up with Johns's own version of what happened that night, I'm disgusted too.

How can such an important piece of information fail to be included in the Four Corners story?

If I was disgusted at the treatment of Johns, and I have been apoplectic, I'm now even more disgusted at what our country has become.

What the Matthew Johns story has proved this week is that there are two Australias: one that values fairness, due process and justice; another that runs by the freewheeling rules of a vigilante state.
I sincerely hope the guttersnipes that were so quick to condemn Matthew Johns – in particular Sam de Brito, Miranda Devine, and Jill Singer – feel a little sheepish this morning. They bloody well should. All three, and many others, rushed to the judgement of Johns with the restraint of a pack of hyenas before all the facts of the story were on the table.

I'm sorry, Richard Ackland, but Sarah Ferguson's story was not an "absolute cracker", it was shameful. A nadir for Australian journalism. And it stands to be another Phuong Ngo disaster for the ABC’s flagship current-affairs program.

"Four Corners managed to achieve something rare in journalism – a change of attitudes, a rejection of complacent acceptance of rottenness," Ackland wrote in today's SMH.

"You'll notice the legal eggshells over which Four Corners gingerly tiptoed on Monday night. I don't think [Ferguson] directly asked the New Zealand woman identified as 'Clare' whether she consented to one, two or five sexual encounters.

"If she had answered 'no', then the recognised rugby league players may well have been able to bring defamation proceedings against the ABC because an imputation of sexual assault had been raised.

"As in the criminal jurisdiction, such a civil case would have been heavily stacked in their favour because on a factual basis it is her word against the insistent chorus of male voices that the whole thing was consensual. One against eight."

The modus operandi of Four Corners, then, seems to be this: if we can't nail anyone for sexual assault for lack of evidence and corroboration, and we can't say what one or more of them did was sexual assault because we'll get our arses sued, we'll just put it on TV and smear the lot of them anyway.

Let's turn it around and make a story that is fundamentally an issue of consent suddenly one about the "degradation of women", misogyny and the ethicality of group sex (an issue I'm not even going to touch on here, for want of space). If Johns and his mates get cleaned up in the process, so be it!

Disgusting. That's a real "complacent acceptance of rottenness", Mr Ackland.

But there was a far worse example of intellectual vigilantism.

Pru Goward, the shadow federal community services minister and former sex discrimination commissioner, appeared on Nine's Today Show and declared the unnamed men in the room of the Racecourse Hotel that night were variously "facing possible jail sentences", "we are now talking about criminal charges", "we are talking now about a crime" and "we are that close to seeing charges of rape".

Excuse me? On what evidence?

Who does Goward think she is telling the New Zealand authorities how to do their business? What jurisdictive power does she have across the ditch? The police in Christchurch have closed their case, stating categorically "that no evidence was established that would support criminal charges being laid against any person. The female complainant was fully advised at the time of the outcome of the inquiry and accepted this."

Perhaps try commenting on things you know about next time, Miss Goward.

By far the most heartening media coverage I saw all week was last night on the NRL Footy Show on Nine.

It was touching to see Paul "Fatty" Vautin, or "Paddy", as Broncos chief executive Bruno Cullen mistakenly called him, read out a prepared statement at the beginning of the program explaining his infamous "pat" on Johns's back the week before.

"Both Matt and I were not aware of the intensity of the story to come on the following Monday night," he said.

"He went on air to apologise to his wife, for the second time in seven years, mind you, and I noticed as he was sitting here, how hard he was doing it. At the end, and merely as a friend, I gave Matt a 'well said' and a pat on the back, as I think any Australian mate would do. It was nothing more and nothing less."

It was the right thing to do, Mr Vautin, and you should never have felt the need to explain yourself. I would have done the same thing and I haven't met, heard from or spoken to a man or woman this week who would do any differently.

Then there was the sight of a tearful Phil Gould, the eminence grise of rugby league and a good friend of Johns, who gave viewers an insight into how his mate had been effectively ambushed by Four Corners before "The Code of Silence" went to air.

"From the time Matt got the call from [Ferguson], she never intimated to him at any time what was coming his way, what the girl had said or how explosive she was going to be about it. Matt Johns, quite honestly, gave her all the details that he knew about the incident as he had given the police seven years ago.

"The program was aired… by Wednesday, I was really worried about [Johns]. I got some calls from him that gave me great concern for him. I urged him to come home. When he arrived [at Channel Nine studios] yesterday with his wife, I've never seen two more shattered people.

"They were struggling with the rage. They hadn't seen the report… and in their minds, the true facts hadn't come out. [Ferguson] hadn't reported the incident as it was, and that Matt somehow had been purported as the instigator of a very unsavoury act. They wanted the facts out there."

And while Four Corners and its reporter, Ferguson, were happy to put together their hatchet job on Johns and give him only a few days' warning of what was about to come – and not even the full details of that report, if we are to believe Gould – she did not even do The Footy Show the courtesy of appearing on the program after being expressly invited to field questions about the veracity of her story.

Again, disgusting.

A friend of mine, a 28-year-old woman called Cat who has been, like many of my friends and colleagues from around the world, penning virtual essays on the Johns story on my Facebook page, put it this way to me this week: "["Clare"] made a mistake, as did [Johns]. They all did. They have all already paid for it... in their own way. But is it Johns's responsibility to safeguard her as an innocent teen? Or is it realistic to expect people to live within the legal and moral boundaries that we all, as a collective whole, see fit and agree on?

"What are those rules? The law? No law was broken. So what are we talking about... a different level of deceit? He should have known better.

"But the truth is they all f***** up. They made a mistake. It wasn't Johns being a predator or her being a victim. We all make mistakes at some point and we all have to take responsibility for those mistakes eventually. And sometimes that really, really hurts. Sometimes those mistakes lead to post-traumatic stress disorder, sometimes to divorce, sometimes just to a headache... but responsibility must be taken for the choices we make, regrets or not."

Amid the maelstrom of bluster, condemnation, innuendo, rumour and misinformation, it was the most sensible thing I'd heard all week.

The Matthew Johns scandal should not leave rugby league in crisis. It should be leaving Four Corners in crisis.