Official Ruling On End Of Time For AFL Games

[konstas_87]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

The game's up when the umpire raises his hands.

Harsh but the rules.

I hope they give it to freo (I tipped them and god knows I need the tip!!)

But they won't.

if u did it on afl.com.au u get the tip anyway, every1 does when its a draw.

 

[Bob_vic]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

Sorry, you're wrong Frodo.

If one of the field umpires on the ground hears the siren before a free kick, mark or disposal for a score, then that umpire should make sure that play is brought to end.

Play officially ends when one of the field umpires hears the siren.

Any umpire, but usually the controlling umpire (unless he didn't hear it), acknowledges the end of play by signalling to the timekeepers.

The timekeepers should keep blowing the siren until one of the field umpires acknowledges.

For all we know, the timekeepers might have done this, but the siren obviously wasn't working properly.

The rules are quite clear and aren't contradictory.

As for the result, instead of being always confined to rules, which cannot always be written or applied to all circumstances, the AFL should do "the right thing" and award the game to Fremantle.

Rules are only a bunch of words. The AFL can still make an appopriate decision without going into semantics.

Bob

 

[sherb]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

There is law and intent.

Clearly the controlling umpire is the only official that can end the game.

It is ridiculous to suggest that an umpire down the other end of the field can hear the siren and end the game. Just a matter of common sense.

I just can't agree with this. The laws are quite clear:
10.4.2 - Play in each quarter shall come to an end when any one of the field Umpires hears the siren. (My emphasis).

If the intent of the law was for the controlling umpire to be the only one who can end the game, the laws would state that and the law I have quoted above would not exist - or would be substantially more explanatory.

In my view, the reason the law is written in its current form is to allow for exactly what happened today - ie, the controlling umpire not hearing the siren.

The game today should have ended when any one of the three umpires first heard the siren. If play continued after that, the umpire who first signalled the end of the game should have informed the controlling umpire exactly when the game ended.

 

[Grimreepah]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

I just can't agree with this. The laws are quite clear:
10.4.2 - Play in each quarter shall come to an end when any one of the field Umpires hears the siren. (My emphasis).

If the intent of the law was for the controlling umpire to be the only one who can end the game, the laws would state that and the law I have quoted above would not exist.

This is a very good point.

I suspect the AFL officials will be wanting to talk to the umpires. If any of them say they heard the siren, then that might be basis of overturning the decision.

But if none of them heard it (or say they didn't) then the AFL could not overturn the decision without going against what is stated in the rule book.

 

[Frodo]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

You are so full of . This game was decided after official time was up.How often does that happen Fraudo? If it had happened to the Eagles (or any other team than Freo) you'd be up in arms.

WRONG.......official time is up when the umpire blows and signals...and not until then......... hoss..hit

 

[Frodo]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

Play officially ends when one of the field umpires hears the siren.

Completely wrong. Play ends with a whisle and a signal. The siren is a time indication for the umpires only. The umpires acknowledge that signal by the arm raising and blow the whistle.

If your argument was correct no kick could happen after the siren.......and they regularly do.

 

[Frodo]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

I just can't agree with this. The laws are quite clear:
10.4.2 - Play in each quarter shall come to an end when any one of the field Umpires hears the siren. (My emphasis).

If the intent of the law was for the controlling umpire to be the only one who can end the game, the laws would state that and the law I have quoted above would not exist - or would be substantially more explanatory.

In my view, the reason the law is written in its current form is to allow for exactly what happened today - ie, the controlling umpire not hearing the siren.

The game today should have ended when any one of the three umpires first heard the siren. If play continued after that, the umpire who first signalled the end of the game should have informed the controlling umpire exactly when the game ended.

You ignore 10.4.1 and practicality.

 

[dirk pitt]

Re: This is the AFL's link to the Rules of the Game

stupid............you create precedent...and that is dangerous

There already is a precedent. If 100 years ago (with no replays no less, only common sense and sportsmanship), they can overturn an unjust result, then that AFL can do it in 2006.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

Completely wrong. Play ends with a whisle and a signal. The siren is a time indication for the umpires only. The umpires acknowledge that signal by the arm raising and blow the whistle.

If your argument was correct no kick could happen after the siren.......and they regularly do.

Clause 10.4.3 allows an umpire to pay a mark or free kick to a player if it arose just before the umpire heard the siren, and the player is free to take the kick after the siren has blown.

 

[spitlizard]

A few of you are missing the point. The law also states that the timekeeper must continue to blow the whistle until it has been acknowledged by an umpire. This clearly did not occur so there is a significant breach. Also this cannot be compared to other incidents along the same lines as I believe this has never occured before.

One more point, they claim they never heard the siren so technically, should'nt the teams still be playing?????

 

[Grimreepah]

A few of you are missing the point. The law also states that the timekeeper must continue to blow the whistle until it has been acknowledged by an umpire. This clearly did not occur so there is a significant breach. Also this cannot be compared to other incidents along the same lines as I believe this has never occured before.

One more point, they claim they never heard the siren so technically, should'nt the teams still be playing?????

This is a point (which has been raised before). It is not the point.

 

[sherb]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

You ignore 10.4.1 and practicality.

Not ignoring 10.4.1 at all:
The timekeeper shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter until a field Umpire signals that the siren has been heard and brings play to an end.

Firstly, this rule is written as an instruction for the timekeeper, not the umpires.

In any case, it says "a field umpire" ... not "the controlling field umpire".

In reference to your comment re practicality, I assume you are saying it is impractical for a non-controlling umpire to bring play to an end.

If that is the case, it should be equally impractical for a non-controlling umpire to pay a free kick or 50 m penalty well away from the play - but that happens quite often.

The intent of the law is quite clear - any of the field umpires can end the quarter. And I still don't see how it is too difficult or impractical for the non-controlling umpire to do so.

 

[pie35]

I reckon the AFL should overturn the result in favour of Fremantle but I don't think they'll do it. I still remember the 1980 Ecort Cup grand final when Collingwood led Carlton when the siren went. Carlton had possession and two kicks later Kerry Good goaled to give the roos the cup. Collingwood's complaints fell on DEAF ears then and I think it'll be the same for the Dockers this time.
The one fact they have in their favour is the time keepers error of not continuously sounding the siren until the umpire acknowledges it (has the Sydney timekeeper relocated to Tassie?)

 

[hoss]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

You ignore 10.4.1 and practicality.

No you're wrong Frodo. How many times do you need to be told??? Apart from being an Eagles supporter what other interest do you have here. Are you an umpy or timekeeper?? Or are you Andy?

 

[sherb]

I reckon the AFL should overturn the result in favour of Fremantle but I don't think they'll do it. I still remember the 1980 Ecort Cup grand final when Collingwood led Carlton when the siren went. Carlton had possession and two kicks later Kerry Good goaled to give the blues the cup. Collingwood's complaints fell on DEAF ears then and I think it'll be the same for the Dockers this time.
The one fact they have in their favour is the time keepers error of not continuously sounding the siren until the umpire acknowledges it (has the Sydney timekeeper relocated to Tassie?)

Clearly you don't remember it that well, as it was North Melbourne, not Carlton.

 

[yeah-nah]

This is a point (which has been raised before). It is not the point.

Actually it is the point

Having been a time keeper in the ammos (10 years ago admittedly) we were told that failing to keep the siren blowing until the umpire aknowledged it was akin to blowing it too early or too late. ie a major breach of duty and procedure.

Trust me, given that the timekeeper is an AFL appointed official the is THE issue. And its a huge one. Doubt the decision would be overturned though, however if Freo were to pursue a legal challenge the fact that the AFL appointed time keeper failed to follow procedure, or show due diligence, will be the path they pursue.

 

[Scal]

Seems to me that sherb has it right, if you read the rules.

10.4.1 quite obviously reads not as a rule to end the game, but only that the siren should be sounded until an umpire signals that they have heard. While this didn't happen, and can be ammo for Fremantle to go with, I don't think it is as important as the next part.

The important thing here is 10.4.2 - Play ends when an umpire hears the siren, which one did. This has been clearly illustrated in the past when a mark has been taken within range of goal a split second after the siren has gone. While the umpires have not had time to raise their arms and signal that they have heard the siren (as 10.4.1 instructs), they do have the power to say to the player that the mark was taken after the siren sounded, and thereby they cannot have a shot. (Sorry Frodo, you are wrong, but don't let that stop your tirade against Fremantle. We all know your only interest is seeing Fremantle cop the short end of the stick. I expect no less from someone that dresses in other teams colours just to barrack against Fremantle).

10.4.3 is not applicable here as there was no free kick or mark that needed to be paid before the siren went. That happened well after the siren had gone.

I'm trying not to be biased, and that is the way I understand the rules to work.

 

[cos789]

There are three issues here .

1. The timekeeper must keep blowing the siren until any umpire acknowleges .
2. An umpire must signal the end of the game . A non controlling umpire can void play after he hears the siren .
3. The umpires didn't seem to signal end of play .
If they ended play but forgot to signal , that's not a huge infraction .
But if they ended play on someone's say so , then obviously they should address when that person saw/heard the end of game .
They obviously ended the game on someone's sayso otherwise there would have been a centre bounce .
4. Game abandonned due to pitch invasion .
5. St Kilda win because Docker coach is on field during play .

.

 

[Grimreepah]

Doubt the decision would be overturned though

If the decision won't be overturned obviously the AFL don't consider it to be the issue.

The fact that the timekeeper didn't keep blowing the siren is not the most important issue here. If the umpires didn't hear it to start with, why would they hear if it kept going.

The issue is what the AFL should do. The timekeepers may have been obliged to keep the siren going, but in terms of the decision that the AFL has to make, it is not the most important factor.

 

[pie35]

Clearly you don't remember it that well, as it was North Melbourne, not Carlton.

Yeah, your memory's better than mine. The sooner alzheimer's fully sets in the sooner I'll forget all the pain of those lost grand finals.

 

[sherb]

Yeah, your memory's better than mine. The sooner alzheimer's fully sets in the sooner I'll forget all the pain of those lost grand finals.

Don't bet on it, mine is well on the way out too.

 

[pie35]

Don't bet on it, mine is well on the way out too.

If you can remember "Slipstream" and "Summer Love" you're doing OK.

 

[Crow2005]

Re: This is the AFL's link to the Rules of the Game

Crow, you're a legend! I've been looking for the Aussie Rules laws all over the web! Cheers!

What can I say ? cheers

 

[Bob_vic]

Re: Official Rules for End of Play- Section 10.4 of AFL Offical Laws

Completely wrong. Play ends with a whisle and a signal.

Law 10.4.2: Play in each quarter shall come to an end when any one of the field Umpires hears the siren.

What part of that law don't you understand?

The signal and whistle is only to indicate to the timekeepers and everyone else that the siren has been heard.

I rest my case.

Bob

 

[tigerdan]

What would happen if (as happens at Kardinia park) a train went past and blew its horn and the umpire thought it was the siren?

If the onus is *only* on the umpire (as people are suggesting) - could the game officially finish before it is supposed to?