List Mgmt. Our List 2014 - Trade, De-list and Draft - (keep it all in here)

[Claypigeon]

it is that its poor strategy to have a policy of best available when you need a team filled with different types... only a moron would keep drafting the best midfielders year after year and ignore the fact that they had no KPP.

"best available" is bs and there is no way that they actually don't take into account what they have need for. (see 2010) the point is that they didnt think that any key defenders were worth pick 12, clearly talia was considered and dismissed as he was being touted at pick 12. So clearly they thought talia was a dud and chose someone who we had less requirement for... if they ranked both player equally they would have selected talia on a needs basis...

There is a school of thought that says: Draft the best, trade for need. .. Its worked well for teams like Sydney, Hawthorn and Collingwood in the past. ..

(sorry to resurrect a ten page old comment)

 

[HARKER]

Good call Harker. .. The first one is meant to be Cachia. ..

Agree on Scotland, although I think that Daisy might be an option in his role/position. .. If not Menzel or Lucas will likely vie for it. .. My list was based purely on this year and took into consideration injuries to players who looked the goods. ..

Basically if we trade in a ready made player the players in the list will shuffle down and be at risk in the next list lodgement. ..

I like what you've done as it's a visual representation of what we have on our list.
Easy to read on viewing, that Malthouse may want a couple of the right "seniors" around the club considering how many kids we're likely to draft.

I guess most of us just look at the players without fully appreciating what is needed to fast-track these kids for AFL football. The coaches are important of course but even they can only be around an individual for so long. Having the right playing mentors is almost as important.

 

[Sin City]

There is a school of thought that says: Draft the best, trade for need. .. Its worked well for teams like Sydney, Hawthorn and Collingwood in the past. ..

(sorry to resurrect a ten page old comment)

It does work sometimes but it can also be difficult if the need is difficult to trade for (such as a star full forward). It's also easier when you have a larger salary cap than most teams.

 

[Garth Vader]

Excuse me everyone, but as has been noted... GWS are going to have to start reducing their list in the near future or do you think that the AFL is going to let them keep 50 players plus 4 rookies on their list forever?

They are going to looking to shed players over the next couple of years...

So to be fair, I would offer them our first round pick for Patton and Adams... and maybe our 5th round pick as steak knives.

You guys might be wetting yourselves about pick 1... but I would prefer to get someone who has been in the system for a couple of years and is more along the line than someone like Boyd would be. I can see GWS using first and second round picks, but their later picks will be passes.

If they want a ruckman, offer them a choice of Knockers or Hammer... but that will mean that we want their third round pick and our 5th is off the table.

That would be awesome, but how realistic is it?

 

[blue healer]

Just a theory on Betts following the talk that he isnt just leaving for money:
- Betts and Garlett are both pure small forwards, whilst Yarran can go through the middle a little
- Malthouse has told them that there is only one spot in the best 22 for a pure small forward, and that Betts will need to push into the midfield more often
- Betts doesnt think this is suitable for him, and would prefer to just focus on the small forward role
- Moving via free agency ensures job security, higher pay and that his mates dont get dropped due to lack of versatility.

Him moving benefits the club for a multitude of reasons.....list balance, cap space, opportunities for youngsters....but also doesnt jeopardise his own success (Adelaide and North are both clubs who will look to challenge in 2014).

Does his moving benefit the club if we don't get Thomas (and I reckon this is starting to look 50/50 at best)?

I've said before that I think if the arrival of Thomas co-incides with the loss of Betts then we are only slightly better, list wise, than last year. If we miss Thomas and lose Betts we go backwards, despite the hope for some of our younger players (Menzel etc), it is unrealistic to think that they will be ready to step straight into Eddies shoes next year.

How the hell is our list balance improved by losing our best small forward? And while I'm at it who cares if there's cap space if we have nothing to spend it on?

Other than Thomas I haven't seen that there are any other guns out there that want to come to us or that we even have much trade collateral to use if we identify someone.

The combined gnashing of teeth on this board about our (read Mick's) treatment of Laidler is awe inspiring. As good as he was in his first year he was deemed not good enough this year (does the name David Teague mean anything to anyone?). Whether his loss of form was injury related or whatever is beside the point and for him to intimate that he was left out because the new coach didn't like him is just a simple sook. I saw very few on this board who watch the Northern Blues regularly talking up his form this year.

And yet the same people who bemoan the loss of Laidler try to make a positive out of losing Betts.

I admit to being a glass half empty guy when it comes to evaluating our list management team but can't help feeling that, if we miss Thomas, we're going to be drafting as many kids as we can in hope and returning to the journeyman days of 2003.

If I sound a tad angry about the potential loss of Eddie that is exactly how I feel. FFS I've seen some say that they'll not renew memberships if Laidler goes but will wave Eddie goodbye.

 

[Silvagnis]

Nice rant...

Nice assumption that we will go backwards after we finished ninth (unofficially)with Betts in the team. Port made the finals after losing Pearce and Chaplin, but you think the wheels will fall off if Betts goes. It's the no Fevola argument all over again.

Betts polled a third of the votes Garlett received in the AFLCA. Yarran received more votes than Betts.

Easy to kick the club before the trade and free agency period has started. Club will be compensated if Betts goes. It's up to the club to use this and our tradeable players to improve the list.

 

[Dramoth]

That would be awesome, but how realistic is it?

Probably more realistic than some of the trade involving a number of our players for pick 1. Patton is on the trade table and Adams is saying he wants to return home. That turns it into a buyers market.

However, I think that a number of clubs will go over the top bidding for Patton.

As I have said, GWS don't need multiple players going onto their list... They need to start culling them from their list.

 

[Diesel Power]

More the size and the way he plays, I'd think.

Thanks Harker. Sounds like he's at least worth a look.

 

[blue healer]

Nice rant...

Nice assumption that we will go backwards after we finished ninth (unofficially)with Betts in the team. Port made the finals after losing Pearce and Chaplin, but you think the wheels will fall off if Betts goes. It's the no Fevola argument all over again.

Betts polled a third of the votes Garlett received in the AFLCA. Yarran received more votes than Betts.

Easy to kick the club before the trade and free agency period has started. Club will be compensated if Betts goes. It's up to the club to use this and our tradeable players to improve the list.

Right on cue and only to be expected from you. 90% of your post are sarcasm riddled cracks at anyone with a different opinion to yours.

Well guess what! It's a well known fact that opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and unless you can supply medical evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume yours is no better than mine. Matter of fact I think mines kinda manly.

 

[BluStreak]

Probably more realistic than some of the trade involving a number of our players for pick 1. Patton is on the trade table and Adams is saying he wants to return home. That turns it into a buyers market.
However, I think that a number of clubs will go over the top bidding for Patton.
As I have said, GWS don't need multiple players going onto their list... They need to start culling them from their list.

The Seniors list management numbers for GWS are as follows.
2011 - 50 2016 - 46
2012 - 50 2017 - 44
2013 - 50 2018 - 42
2014 - 50 2019 - AFL Standard
2015 - 48

These numbers do not include rookies.

 

[Loramarthalas]

Not sure if anyone is still interested in Thorp, but he played a great game today in the TSL grand final. He's been captain/coach of the South Launceston Bulldogs all year. They haven't won the cup in 40 years. They have actually folded as a club, but are just playing out the season. By some miracle though, Thorp has actually dragged the club off the ground and won them a premiership -- in their last ever game. He kicked the winning goal in the final quarter, when the Dockers were coming hard at them.

He also took home the medal for player of the year.

He rucked, he went forward, he did it all.

Is he worth a rookie spot? Hell yes.

 

[Quazza]

any whispers of us being interested ?

 

[etsal1]

any whispers of us being interested ?

There was a couple of weeks ago. There is a thread on the stats & trading board about him.

 

[dropdead1]

What form in 2013 brings you to think he was shafted? He was rarely in the best in the NB and did nothing to warrant a recall. Now he wants a trade, because he's not getting games in the seniors? Weren't we complaining earlier in the year that players were gifted games on reputation?? You want to represent the club, earn it. If it's "too hard" then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

That's not how it works. Certain players have earned their right to play seniors, and build their fitness through the VFL only. Carazzo was average for the NB's this year prior to playing seniors. Not to mention Yarran who was below average. Bootsma, McInnes, Duigan, among others, hardly set the world on fire either in the VFL. I actually watched Laids play a couple of times and he clearly looked a level above most other players out there.

 

[Juddalenko]

That's not how it works. Certain players have earned their right to play seniors, and build their fitness through the VFL only. Carazzo was average for the NB's this year prior to playing seniors. Not to mention Yarran who was below average. Bootsma, McInnes, Duigan, among others, hardly set the world on fire either in the VFL. I actually watched Laids play a couple of times and he clearly looked a level above most other players out there.

That's not how it works?? Take off the rose tinted glasses. He's played 26 games of footy (that's barely 1 season) ....Carazzo has played over 150! He came into the side on reputation in round 2 and stunk it up. I watched a few NB games too - and one of our most respected fellow posters - Harker - who actually goes to most NB games said he didn't do enough in the twos.

I agree that there is a spot for him in the seniors WHEN HE IS PLAYING WELL, but hey if he doesn't want to get a preseason under his belt and prove that he is back to his best, then good luck to him finding a club that will just plonk him in the seniors and leave him there regardless of form, like you want. I for one am glad that Carlton is not prepared to do that.

For what it's worth, I didn't agree with Bootsma getting games either.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Interesting article on Didak. May put a few things into perspective.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/de...te-battle-cancer/story-fndv8g1a-1226724409583

 

[SMOO]

Interesting article on Didak. May put a few things into perspective.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/de...te-battle-cancer/story-fndv8g1a-1226724409583

Sad. Yes. Still don't want this .... At the footy club.

 

[Pratt = Premiers]

Kreuzer is our one and only commodity, people want him, we have ready made replacement (warnock).
GWS need ruckman, kreuzer and first round pick for Patton and Adams; would they have a nibble at that?

 

[HARKER]

Little point bringing up Kreuzer, Pratt.

He's contracted, the club have stated that they have no desire to trade him and he doesn't want to go. End of story, really.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Does his moving benefit the club if we don't get Thomas (and I reckon this is starting to look 50/50 at best)?
...
And yet the same people who bemoan the loss of Laidler try to make a positive out of losing Betts.

I admit to being a glass half empty guy when it comes to evaluating our list management team but can't help feeling that, if we miss Thomas, we're going to be drafting as many kids as we can in hope and returning to the journeyman days of 2003.

If I sound a tad angry about the potential loss of Eddie that is exactly how I feel. FFS I've seen some say that they'll not renew memberships if Laidler goes but will wave Eddie goodbye.

Hope you dont mind me redacting part of your post (just to keep the quote size down)

Firstly, let me make clear that from an emotional perspective, losing Betts wont be nice. He has been one of our best forwards over the last 4-5 years, and well ahead of the other amigos.

However, from a logical perspective, Yarran and Garlett had better games when Betts wasnt playing....the amigos had a tendancy to get in each others way in the forwardline. Team balance with three pure small forwards limits the avaiable midfield rotation (which has been on of our biggest criticisms). For this reason, one of Garlett, Yarran or Betts has to go.

So looking at the available trades/compensation for losing these players, Betts would get a higher pick leaving as a Free Agent, than Garlett or Yarran would in a trade. (Same with what we will get for Laidler)

And for the record, I dont necessarily want Thomas. I'd happily take the first round pick for Betts and get an 18 year old or trade that pick with soemthing else to try and get Adams, Patton or pick 1. Might be speculative at pick 13, but the cap space allows you to front end current contracts, or lure a big name in the next season.

 

[Pratt = Premiers]

Little point bringing up Kreuzer, Pratt.

He's contracted, the club have stated that they have no desire to trade him and he doesn't want to go. End of story, really.

The club can say anyone is off the table, but lets be honest, everyone has a price. Ruckman are so over rated in my opinion unless you have a cox who get 20 plus possessions or sandilands who gets every hit out.

If we could get a ready made mid and kpf we should do what ever is required.

 

[ShanDog]

The club can say anyone is off the table, but lets be honest, everyone has a price. Ruckman are so over rated in my opinion unless you have a cox who get 20 plus possessions or sandilands who gets every hit out.

If we could get a ready made mid and kpf we should do what ever is required.

I agree with you, but the Club won't trade Kreuzer when he has stated he wants to be here (and reportedly knocked back big offers to move elsewhere before). The main reason? The fans love the guy. If he was to be shipped off to another club to secure a trade, it almost doesn't matter how much that trade would benefit the Blues, the fans would go ape shit. Unfortunately, the concept of trading him is just not going to be entertained I think.

 

[HARKER]

The club can say anyone is off the table, but lets be honest, everyone has a price. Ruckman are so over rated in my opinion unless you have a cox who get 20 plus possessions or sandilands who gets every hit out.

If we could get a ready made mid and kpf we should do what ever is required.

You have to ask "Why would Kreuzer want to go?"
He's already knocked back an approach by GWS and for a lot more money to be loyal to the club.

It's not just up to the club and you can't put a contracted player onto the table if he doesn't want to go.

 

[Cringle]

Kruezer has a few bad games without being 100% fit, and gets grossly underrated. He really is probably our most important player. Warnock has to get traded. Kruezer has to play 90%+ ruck time.

 

[gab213]

The only ruckman we can afford to lose in Hampson, we NEED both Kreuzer and Warnock playing next year.


I think you can forget about either of those guys agreeing to go to GWS anyway, Kreuzer has already knocked them back before and Warnock came over from Fremantle cause he wanted to be in Melbourne.