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Kelvin

What I am trying to say is, our list is woeful after the first 22 picked, yes we have a couple of guys who have come in and done a handy job but after that we have some very ordinary players getting games in the seniors.

We have a lot of dead wood that is going to hold back the development of our list.

There is one reason why we can't press for a flag next year. Depth!!

Collingwood may be exposed this year if they manage to pick up some injuries having delisted a lot of there depth last year (Medhurst, Lockyer, O'Bree etc), we are simply stagnating in our list.

Hurley went down, who has come in the play as a KPF? Carlisle, oh wait, Jay.. oh wait.. No thats ruck, a ruckmen. how is that working for us?

I am sick and tired of us trying to improvise on our list, something that seriously needs to be addressed.

Ring Jimmy up and give him a blast.
 
When we were expected to be 0-5 at seasons start from first 5 rounds we were happy to be winning some games. I think this negativity and unrealistic expectations are what Hird was speaking about and not getting ahead of ourselves! If we make top 8 great and we have developed our list, but if we dont i personally dont care. Hird has been hired for 4 years to implement his theories and practices. If say by the end of the 3rd year we're still like this (a developing side) is when we should be concerned. For now i believe we are travelling just fine, with few refinements coming through. Our team will buy a good player, just wait and see. Where we lack we will buy someone and that will fast track us. We are loaded, and we have the coaching panel to attract anyone. Im sure Judd would even re think where he chose to go if this was the panel back then! Just take it easy guys....let it be!
 
Whats happening with Colyer? Thought he showed a bit last year (kicking could improve) and feel that the loss of Dempsey's run is really starting to show. Does Browne have enough speed to come in?

Agree with OP regarding recruitment of rookies this year. Other than Crameri I wonder if we stuffed up.
 

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Absolute bullshit.

Monfries would get games ahead of guys like Mcaffer, Blair, etc at Collingwood

Ryder is getting better numbers than Leigh Brown but apparently he's having a shit year. :rolleyes:

Brent Stanton would be in anyone's 22.

David Myers has started slowly but is now coming on. He'll be alright in after another pre season and 20 more games under the belt.

Seriously that shouldn't be the benchmark for Ryder. Comparing him Brown who plays his role for Collingwood but is on his third club and is a battler.
 
You cant say 1 bloke would change the game that much, Jobe alone couldn't of improved our effinciency and our dispossal into the forward 50 enough for us to win, because thats what lost us the game.
3 goals? Not so sure. He's kicked a goal a week and clearly uses it better than Lonergan or Howlett. Would make a difference, hard to say though.
 
3 goals? Not so sure. He's kicked a goal a week and clearly uses it better than Lonergan or Howlett. Would make a difference, hard to say though.

It's hard to say we would have got more clearances or contested footy with Watson or Hocking given how well we did in those areas after the start of the match but I'd imagine the quality would be better. Loved the way Lonergan, McVeigh etc battled but they don't have the class to release players from congestion like Watson does.

This is not an indictment on our list either. Just the reality of losing your best player.

I'm happy with where our list is at.
 
You know when you disagree so much with something, that you don't know how, you actually cannot begin to dissect it? It's like trying to explain the logic of Evolution over Creationism to a child.

This thread stresses me out. I disagree with so much of it, but how do you reason with such nonsensical drivel? Such misplaced superiority?

I think kelvin did the best any of us could with this: "bullshit".
 
If everything goes well then in 3 years pending our drafting over the next 2 drafts:


FB: Browne, Pears, Hardingham
HB: Dempsey, Hooker, Hibberd
C. Jetta, Heppell, Colyer
Fol: Bellchambers, Watson, Hocking
HF Crameri, Hurley, Zaharakis
FF Monfries, Gumbleton, Steinberg

Int: Ryder, Reimers, Lonergan, Myers

Love that backline.
 
I agree with some of what HFF is saying, but i don't think our depth is poor comparitively to most afl clubs.

Our players ranked say 23rd-32nd or so are mostly capable of coming in and filling a hole, and sometimes will do it very well - the problem with what we're seeing right now is that they are basically all required at once.

The performance of a depth player who comes into a mostly full strength side to replace a similar player, is usually better than the performance than if he is one of about 10 depth players all trying to get the side over the line at once.

To me a side with good depth is a team not only with more than 22 decent players, but a good mix of players that can account for a variety of positions - eg, if a sides 23rd - 30th best players are all midfelders then it clearly doesn't help if they need to replace a tall.

Certainly the rookie list seems like it could do with an overrhaul, and when you include them there are still a few list cloggers running around....

The following is how I see our list as it stands currently (of course the young players in particular may rise up out of nowhere and cement a spot at some stage) - *also keep in mind, i've put these players into the categories i feel they most likely currently sit with the caoching staff - there are a couple i don't think will make it, but they're clearly in the mix atm....

....the bolded names where unavailable this weekend.

Generally must have in the 22 if fit: (16 players)

Watson, Hille, Pears, Hooker, Fletcher, Heppell, Jetta, Hocking, McVeigh, Hardingham, Winderlich, Zaharakis, Crameri, Ryder, Stanton, Monfries.

Thereabouts and trying to cement a spot and/or build a career: (16 players)

Lonergan, Howlett, Colyer, Reimers, Melksham, Bellchambers, Myers, Gumbleton, Carlisle, Lovett-Murray, Dempsey, Welsh, Davey, Hibberd, Prismall, Slattery.


Depth only/list cloggers/will never be good enough to be in the 22 in a good side: (5 players)

Dyson, Williams.
Rookies = Neagle, Quinn, T.Slattery.

Young and developing, yet not ready/haven't played enough to put them in any of the above categories: (9 players)

Browne, Daniher, Davis, Long, Ross, Steinberg.
Rookies = Jenkins, Silverlock, Webster.


I would have thought that the players i've listed as our 17th-32nd ranked players are almost as even across the board as any other club could boast.....and having said that, the list still needs improvement for us to realistically challenge for a flag.
 
One of Dempsey/Winderlich?

Either a running backman OR a defensive forward? Both of whom were in the 18 when everyone was fit?

That's the stupidest comment in this thread yaco, and **** me if that doesn't take some doing.

Why is it stupid ?

Dont you think that players are capable of playing in more than one position

For example - Davey could play Winder's role - Some would argue that Heppell is playing Dempsey's role.
 

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Why is it stupid ?

Dont you think that players are capable of playing in more than one position

For example - Davey could play Winder's role - Some would argue that Heppell is playing Dempsey's role.

Whomb summed it up pretty well:

You know when you disagree so much with something, that you don't know how, you actually cannot begin to dissect it? It's like trying to explain the logic of Evolution over Creationism to a child.

This [post] stresses me out. I disagree with so much of it, but how do you reason with such nonsensical drivel? Such misplaced superiority?

I think kelvin did the best any of us could with this: "bullshit".
 
I'd also like to point out one thing. Which has been obvious from day dot of this coaching mob.
They specifically avoided the 'rebuild' route, to have a look at as many as possible.

ie Dyson, TSlatts, Davey, Prismall, Williams, NLM, Lonergan and so on who were borderline, plus Neagle.
At the end of the year, 5-6 of those guys will be gone, Lonergan alone has really stamped himself 'safe'; NLM could go either way, the others pretty much gone.

I will be very, very surprised if this thread isn't bumped at the end of the year, just to prove "see I was right all along we did have X Y Z list faults".
Just reminding y'all, for the record, that 'suck it and see' was the plan all along.

Very solid point (wouldn't have thought Davey was gone just yet though)
 
I'd also like to point out one thing. Which has been obvious from day dot of this coaching mob.
They specifically avoided the 'rebuild' route, to have a look at as many as possible.

ie Dyson, TSlatts, Davey, Prismall, Williams, NLM, Lonergan and so on who were borderline, plus Neagle.
At the end of the year, 5-6 of those guys will be gone, Lonergan alone has really stamped himself 'safe'; NLM could go either way, the others pretty much gone.

I will be very, very surprised if this thread isn't bumped at the end of the year, just to prove "see I was right all along we did have X Y Z list faults".
Just reminding y'all, for the record, that 'suck it and see' was the plan all along.

You forgot to include Hank in the borderline category....i'm sure it was an oversight!! :D:D

.
 
Don't think we're in as much trouble as you're suggesting HFF. Really, with our best team on the park we can match it with just about any club. Our depth has a few issues, but so does every other club in the AFL. We have been unlucky with a few recent injuries occuring in the exact same timeframe, however we cannot control these luck factors.

Straight after the break, we will give Melbourne a lesson on how to play football I predict by a minimum of 4 goals; then we'll all jump back on the bandwagon (along with the media). Hold on tight HFF as this year will be a rollercoaster being Hird's first year, as long as we play finals footy and get some valuable experience; it's all sweet. Top 4 will look very possible next season. :thumbsu:
 
Good point Slatts.

Hird said from the start that he was using the year to assess our list before making any real changes.

Suddenly we started performing better than most and people got excited.

What excites me is that we'll most probably play finals footy, and still have a lot of the deadwood replaced, while we've found out that Crameri, Hardingham, Lonergan, Bellchambers and McVeigh can all play. I wouldnt rule out the club chasing a few players pretty aggressively, too.
 
Whomb summed it up pretty well:

It is a shame when MODS add nothing of substance to a discussion - Taking pot shots from the rafters !

At least most of the posters in this thread have stated their opinions about depth on our list.
 
Good point Slatts.

Hird said from the start that he was using the year to assess our list before making any real changes.

Suddenly we started performing better than most and people got excited.

What excites me is that we'll most probably play finals footy, and still have a lot of the deadwood replaced, while we've found out that Crameri, Hardingham, Lonergan, Bellchambers and McVeigh can all play. I wouldnt rule out the club chasing a few players pretty aggressively, too.

I hope we chase the 16yo GWS pick. Seems a bit easier to get.
 
All we are really desperate for at this point is an elite mid-fielder, one (Jobe) is not enough for the next two to three seasons. I am happy with the list for the most part and I think some of you guys bagging Monfries are being a tad harsh. He was never going to be an elite "game breaker" but a solid team contributor the kind of player that you need more of and not less of. He is patchy but at least he works hard.

The hard decisions on players like Gumbleton and Neagle will be made at the end of the year and I have full confidence in Hird and Co. to make the right ones.
 
i think we have quite good depth. Our top three from last years Crichton Medal were out on Saturday night and if we hadnt have been scored against from our turnovers we would all be saying how good our depth is. Add to that Hurley, Pears and Dempsey who will walk back into our side and we are going alright IMO...

Also include Dyson, Prismall, Williams, Gumbleton, Welsh who i think are very close to walking into our top 22 or at least filling out our top 30 that seems like good depth to me
 

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