Our Midfield

[Keilor Tiger]

I agree that we have made no attempt to improve our mids. In 2017 we had Nank, Cotch, Dusty, Prestia, Grigg with support from Caddy, Shedda, Lambo, Ellis, KMac and Graham for finals. Since then we’ve added Shai & Soldo in the “support” bracket. perhaps Ross but he’s no walk up start but lost a couple with others now 5-6 years older.
and players drafted since then include Higgins, Naish, Mansell, Baker, Ross, RCD, Parker, Pickett (excluding talls and current crop who can’t be expected to impact immediately). These blokes are not genuine mids.
We are so far behind in getting big, strong, genuine consistent impact players needed at this level to compete with the tops teams.
we need to invest in a free agent plus trade for a 23-25 yo established mid next off season as a minimum to compete next year.

 

[tigerfan1961]

I agree that we have made no attempt to improve our mids. In 2017 we had Nank, Cotch, Dusty, Prestia, Grigg with support from Caddy, Shedda, Lambo, Ellis, KMac and Graham for finals. Since then we’ve added Shai & Soldo in the “support” bracket. perhaps Ross but he’s no walk up start but lost a couple with others now 5-6 years older.
and players drafted since then include Higgins, Naish, Mansell, Baker, Ross, RCD, Parker, Pickett (excluding talls and current crop who can’t be expected to impact immediately). These blokes are not genuine mids.
We are so far behind in getting big, strong, genuine consistent impact players needed at this level to compete with the tops teams.
we need to invest in a free agent plus trade for a 23-25 yo established mid next off season as a minimum to compete next year.

We need to trust Blair and Co. trust me when I say this, they know what’s required. They may have placed a lot of faith in what we have already but if change is required, it will happen. Hartley is very very good at what he does. I’m not panicking at this stage

 

[nineteen eighty]

Let’s be real. What genuine attempts have we made to improve our midfield size since 2016?

We picked up Ross and RCD in 2018, Martyn in 2019, and only Sonsie in the 2021 draft despite having five top 30 picks.

In 6 years, that is all we have done IMO. I don’t even think we seriously considered trading for an inside midfielder with size at all because it’s hard to believe that we would not be able to land a single one with our success in recent years.

Before anyone brings it up, yes our Premierships have been fantastic and I am grateful for it. Having said that, we could have extended our competitiveness by more if we actually did more to improve our midfield. What we are seeing now isn’t only a natural decline of our midfield - this is also lack of effort by the club to stop the decline. We did not take the opportunities that were presented to us.

It’s a waste of an elite forward line and defence because having 3 or so midfielders that actually have the size to do the contested side of things could have made us strong contenders this year and/or next year. 2 of them don’t even need to be that good either. They just need to be able to win the ball and distribute it to our classy players.

Anyway, it is what it is. This will take a while to rectify IMO.

Agree on all your points. I don't believe our backs and forwards are the problem. Our mids are simply no longer competitive against even an ok mid outfit. Especially with Prestia out. And we've done almost nothing as a club to bring a top tier mid in.

The club has banked on a game style where movement from the backline is key. Hence drafting all those young running backs. For my 50 years following the game though I've never seen a top team without a gun midfield. Anyway, let's see how this plays out over the years.

And I don't believe I'm overreacting. It was always the biggest question mark going into the season.

 

[rammbo]

Change is needed straight away or we r farkkked.


RCD has to play now also need to get some hard nuts in there Pickett and Parker and at times use nank as a big mid.

It's clear as day we will struggle against big midfields .

 

[tropicaltiger]

Graham would have nothing to apologise for if he never played another AFL game. He is probably not going to be a gun inside mid but he is a very good footballer with worthwhile attributes. His future is likely as a high half forward and he should be good there.

Ross seems to be running well, is 21yo, 26 games into his career and could yet be a decent inside mid, these marginal guys you often cannot tell until they are 23 or 24 - see Matthew Kennedy as a perfect example.

Dow is 20. What has he done wrong? He is not Sam Walsh but again, has certain attributes that may prove useful in time, or not.

Collier-Dawkins is just 22. You would think he will be elevated to the AFL team fairly soon, if not next week. Probably needs to be given a run of games. He has more weapons than most inside mids but will need to overcome known weaknesses to make it.

I think Graham is already a lock in our best side and I would bet that at least one of the other 3 has a decent long career. Are any of them tracking to be elite? No. But I don’t think any player who is shaping to have a decent AFL career for us needs “defending."

graham is the elephant in the room for mine, had many injuries, very average overhead, often chasers/harrasses opponents but rarely catches them and often just crashes into their backs, gets caught holding the ball too much, doing stupid things now coughing up 50s, as slow as caddy and caddy has more strings to his bow.

our best side used to be when he was 22nd player picked and we knew he'd crack in when called on to fix a dimma headache..... now im not so sure, it was painful watching him and cotch labouring.

 

[Keilor Tiger]

We need to trust Blair and Co. trust me when I say this, they know what’s required. They may have placed a lot of faith in what we have already but if change is required, it will happen. Hartley is very very good at what he does. I’m not panicking at this stage

I dont disagree and Blair & his team have produced 3 flags which I’m forever grateful for. I‘m just pointing out that we have not improved our midfield in 6 years and have recruited utility players that have not improved our team . Age and injuries catch up with even the greats and i hope we address this obvious deficiency next year.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

It was one abysmal quarter, the final quarter.
Conceding seven goals.
We have 10 days to analyse, it is a good, decent break.
We were destroyed in centre clearances in the quarter.
Carlton has only a one week break versus the Dogs and Voss is in isolation, so he cannot coach in person.
Carlton should be 1-1 and we should be the same.
Swings and roundabouts.

 

[tigerfan1961]

I dont disagree and Blair & his team have produced 3 flags which I’m forever grateful for. I‘m just pointing out that we have not improved our midfield in 6 years and have recruited utility players that have not improved our team . Age and injuries catch up with even the greats and i hope we address this obvious deficiency next year.

I think the draft we just had is the best draft potentially we’ve ever had. All 5 will be better than average players imo.
Look I’m biased as I have total faith in Blair and Matty Clarke. I’ve been to a number of presentations and they are so impressive in what they present. And they got us the chocolates THREE times. I’m not prepared to jump off just yet

 

[tigerfan1961]

It was one abysmal quarter, the final quarter.
Conceding seven goals.
We have 10 days to analyse, it is a good, decent break.
We were destroyed in centre clearances in the quarter.
Carlton has only a one week break and Voss is in isolation, so he cannot coach.
Carlton should be 1-1 and we should be the same.
Swings and roundabouts.

Giants mids will kill us if we don’t respond. Clutch game for our mids imo

 

[Jozzy]

I like Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

and think he needs to play more inside football.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Giants mids will kill us if we don’t respond. Clutch game for our mids imo

We have 10 days to regroup.
If we cannot regroup in that time and analyse the final quarter, we do not deserve to win versus GWS.
Carlton will probably lose to the Dogs, Voss is in isolation, playing at Marvel.
It is a home game for us and our fans should turn out in force, probably 60,000 Tiger fans.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Prestia was more or less BOG until injured last night. And Lynch was the best tall forward on the ground despite minimal supply and playing against an opponent rated by many the best key defender in the AFL.

They were both clearly hampered by injuries throughout much of 2021. If that continues then sure, they are not going to set the world alight, but both showed enough last night alone to show that given a fair run at it, they remain strong players.

Fair points but only serves to show how negligent we've been.
We still have no obvious replacement for Prestia, who played nine games last year and nine the year before.
He had eight and 14 game seasons for the Suns and also a 13 game season for us in 2018.
So our geniuses are again banking on him playing 22-25 games a season????

 

[Keilor Tiger]

I think the draft we just had is the best draft potentially we’ve ever had. All 5 will be better than average players imo.
Look I’m biased as I have total faith in Blair and Matty Clarke. I’ve been to a number of presentations and they are so impressive in what they present. And they got us the chocolates THREE times. I’m not prepared to jump off just yet

The players drafted may well be better than average and I’m not writing them off or saying they were the wrong picks, but none of Brown, Banks or Clarke are inside ball winning mids. All flankers - that’s my concern and follows the trend of past drafts.

 

[Tiges1229]

graham is the elephant in the room for mine, had many injuries, very average overhead, often chasers/harrasses opponents but rarely catches them and often just crashes into their backs, gets caught holding the ball too much, doing stupid things now coughing up 50s, as slow as caddy and caddy has more strings to his bow.

our best side used to be when he was 22nd player picked and we knew he'd crack in when called on to fix a dimma headache..... now im not so sure, it was painful watching him and cotch labouring.

To think some wanted him as a captain

 

[TigerTime88]

Dusty - half the player he was
Cotchin - cooked
Edwards - cooked
Lambert - cooked
Prestia - injury prone, should trade him
Graham - sh*t
Ross - sh*t
Bolton - small and is more damaging up forward
RCD - can’t run out games or get a game

The worst midfield in the comp.

Pretty good summary. Can’t be angry though as you can’t stay up forever. If we are having a shocker I hope a few blokes out there hand up mid year so guys like RCD, Sonsie, Dow get games into them and we get a top 5 pick.

 

[richoplzbreed]

I've been saying for years the club needed to poach quality mids who were overlooked for opportunities at their clubs. Been keen on Will Brodie

17

Will Brodie

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

8.2

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

2star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

2.8

5star

and Patrick Lipinski

1

Patrick Lipinski

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

10.2

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.8

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

18.3

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

15.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.2

4star

as well as Quintin Narkle, Mitch Wallis yet anytime would mention it ya get mocked by the so fanboys. And how dare anyone suggest cotchin was cooked last year and shouldn't go on. Plenty of delusional flogs suggesting he could go on for a few more years and the club owes him to play on as long as he wants LMFAO no worries. Hey it's early in the season but Lipinski is BOG, Brodie's been killing it and good luck to him, and Cotchin looks completely cooked by round 1. Dunno what Cotchins on but I'm tipping it's prob about the amount could've got both Lipinski and Brodie to play for? Our midfield is an embarrassment ATM!!!! Good luck to Naish too hope he gets a string of games to establish himself.

 

[GoTigers2015]

What midfield? We have a ruck and 3 small utilities at every centre bounce.

Worked from 2017 -2020. Assessment from Cam Guthrie after the 2020 Granny was that they couldn't keep up with our midfield.

The problem is those players look cooked and no young mids have emerged yet.

 

[banzai]

Without Prestia on the park we do have the worst midfield going around.

Graham is so overrated by the fanboys its not funny. He is a slow plodder than gets smashed by half decent players.

No one is trading for Prestia. Big coin and too injury prone. We can thank Fartley for him and Lynch.

Lynch and Prestia's contracts are now going to hold us back from a timely rebuild.

So you are saying we should have started a rebuild at the end of 2018 and not gotten Lynch??? We dont win another flag without him and we dont get him without offering that contract.

Lynch and Prestia's contracts dont hold us back at all, because trading for players or getting free agents now would be a disaster. We just need to hit the draft for 3-4 years. Then start looking for free agents.

People want to trade for Tom Green lol All he will do is stop us drafting future superstars cos we wont finish low enough. Hawthorn did exactly that with Tom Mitchell. Just delayed the rebuild by 5 years.

 

[Daka]

Cotchin is done
Prestia is getting big coin to play one quarter every 4 weeks
Martin is just going
Lambert is done
Ross, RCD and Graham are spuds
Bolton is our only decent mid and Dimma didn't put him on the ball when we were getting flogged in the last qtr.
Time to play Sonsie and Dow in the midfield and let them settle in. We need to rebuild badly

Pretty accurate, Martin just going and yet he was probably one of our better players & is coming off a serious injury shows cooked our list atm.

 

[banzai]

Cotchin is done
Prestia is getting big coin to play one quarter every 4 weeks
Martin is just going
Lambert is done
Ross, RCD and Graham are spuds
Bolton is our only decent mid and Dimma didn't put him on the ball when we were getting flogged in the last qtr.
Time to play Sonsie and Dow in the midfield and let them settle in. We need to rebuild badly

Agree with this, but Bolton was put into the center square in both the second and 4th quarter when they got a run on. He was unable to stop it both times.

 

[banzai]

Yes, I would.

You're either tanking, or going for it. That should be how we see each season. Cerra is a gun now. Bona fide gun. Gibcus and Sonie may turn out to be, but when they do, Martin, Grimes, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Edwards, Nank, will be gone.

Its a big risk though, because it means its tough to tank the rest of Cerras career. It happened to Hawthorn with Mitchell. He even won a brownlow, but it was nowhere near enough to keep them winning finals. Weve already lost Prestia and Lambert, Vlas is struggling to play and its only round 1. No way Lynch and co get through the season. What if Grimes breaks down, hes getting older.

Cerra might be worth a couple of wins a season, but we have massive holes everywhere coming up. It would have been premiership or bust this year, then we were screwed anyway. Carlton were missing their best player who is way better than Cerra and they still smashed us. We are already a lot further than a player like Cerra off challenging.

We are about 18 months post a premiership, I dont think we had to be dramatic and retire everyone, we will finish low enough as it is. Jacks already injured, cotch and edwards will probably be soon enough, so they wont keep the kids out if they are good enough. But i dont see any of them dominating in the VFL anyway. RCD should be getting 40 a week by now at that level if he is going to make it.

Tough to say but our best result will be finishing bottom 2 next season and letting Bolton go as a FA and getting a top 3 pick compo. Hes prob our best player, but he will be old by the time we are ready to challenge again.

 

[beema limapep]

Too many people stuck in 2017. The rules have changed and our mids are 5 years older.

 

[wegetpumped]

It was one abysmal quarter, the final quarter.
Conceding seven goals.
We have 10 days to analyse, it is a good, decent break.
We were destroyed in centre clearances in the quarter.
Carlton has only a one week break versus the Dogs and Voss is in isolation, so he cannot coach in person.
Carlton should be 1-1 and we should be the same.
Swings and roundabouts.

Where do you see an improvement from last season? Points goalless second term and as you said last quarter! We struggled to play two-quarters last season and the game shows no difference. Apart from some spark from Boldon and Martin, the rest were very poor.

 

[Jozzy]

I agree that we have made no attempt to improve our mids. In 2017 we had Nank, Cotch, Dusty, Prestia, Grigg with support from Caddy, Shedda, Lambo, Ellis, KMac and Graham for finals. Since then we’ve added Shai & Soldo in the “support” bracket. perhaps Ross but he’s no walk up start but lost a couple with others now 5-6 years older.
and players drafted since then include Higgins, Naish, Mansell, Baker, Ross, RCD, Parker, Pickett (excluding talls and current crop who can’t be expected to impact immediately). These blokes are not genuine mids.
We are so far behind in getting big, strong, genuine consistent impact players needed at this level to compete with the tops teams.
we need to invest in a free agent plus trade for a 23-25 yo established mid next off season as a minimum to compete next year.

I’m fully accepting of the argument that we haven’t yet been able to develop young midfielders into playing best 22 each week but to say “we have made no attempt to improve our midfield” is just wrong.

In 2018 all four of our national draft picks were midfielders: RCD, Ross, Turner & English.

In 2019 we used our mid season draft pick on Pickett and then drafted Dow, Cumberland, Martyn and Ralphsmith.

With the 2020 draft we only had the one active pick and took Samson Ryan with MRJ being the clubs F/S selction.

The 2022 draft is of course still such early days but Sonsie is of course a pure mid, Clarke had already been touted as a Lambert replacement and both Browne and Banks could very easily be developed as midfielders.

The club has dedicated entire drafts to thr midfield over recent seasons so I’m just not willing to accept calls saying the club hasn’t been trying to improve this area.

 

[Grrr]

Let's not over react, Cripps killed us. It took 2 sometimes 3 mids to just hold him back. There are no other mids in the league like that, Petracca the closest.

We barely made a tackle inside and had nobody crashing bodies. Without Prestia, the only ones I can see capable of doing it are Ross and RCD, nobody is big enough or natural inside enough. But they have to up their physical play big time also. Graham has the attitude and physique, but is a straight line runner who gets very few inside clearances with little lateral movement. Not a natural at the coal face. Was weird that Hardwich did not at least try Ross inside considering two weeks before he mainly played as an inside defensive mid. Baker and Aarts were given a go!, short people compared to Cripps and the rest of the Carlton midfield.