Our Midfield

[nineteen eighty]

Everyone keeps banging on about RCD and the other kids in the VFL. I'm assuming they played in the annihilation the other day by Carlton's VFL side. How did they go?

I've seen very little from RCD to date. We have zero depth in our midfield.

 

[beema limapep]

The state of our midfield depth is a catastrophic failure.

 

[DickieKnee]

You guys might be right but surely you need to wait for two games before putting the fork in cotchin?

Cripps will pwn many teams if he stays fit

Carltons midfield played out of their skins 2nd and last quarters. If Cripps plays like that the whole season he will win the Brownlow by a landslide with a record tally.
Lets see where we are after 6 games or so.

 

[Grrr]

Everyone keeps banging on about RCD and the other kids in the VFL. I'm assuming they played in the annihilation the other day by Carlton's VFL side. How did they go?

I've seen very little from RCD to date. We have zero depth in our midfield.

Well the answer is not Aarts, Baker nor Edwards against big mids. Cotchin had to take Cripps all night. Gave him 10cm and 10kg's and had no hope. We need some players who have a bit of weight on their bones to crack in, every side has them but us. RCD may or may not have done well, I guess we will find out shortly, but at least he is big enough to lend some weight to our featherweight pack. Ross the same. As inside mids, if they cannot crack in what is the point of them being on the list. You have to give them a game there first I guess to challenge them.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Ross was shit on the wing, it was stupid to not put him in the guys ahead of Aarts for Christ sake. At the least he could made life a bit more difficult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tigerfan1961]

Ross was sh*t on the wing, it was stupid to not put him in the guys ahead of Aarts for Christ sake. At the least he could made life a bit more difficult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ross was not sh*t, far from our worst

 

[Drunken Wookie]

View attachment 1348186

Got like 40kg on his wrists there.

 

[SplintWhisky]

So which inside mid would you have taken and when? Bypass Gibcus? Hmmm. And who would you have taken ahead of Brown? inside-mid Sonsie?? …. who we got anyway.

On exposed form I don’t think we could have done better than Gibcus, Brown and Sonsie with our first three picks.

We are not building a premiership list for 2023-25 by desperately chasing Dunstan and the like…. it’s for 2026-2030 and Gibcus will be central to that.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

You know Dunstan would have been for free right? Melbourne aren't stupid enough to hand over their first for him

 

[Harry_Up]

Our midfield dept is partly due to our recent success and not having any high draft picks. To say we haven't tried to stay mids is fully true. First round picks since 2017 preimership include: Jack Higgins 2017; Riley C-D 2018; Thomson Dow 2019. Plus second round picks on Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

, Will Martin, and TylerSonie

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Ross was not sh*t, far from our worst

Nah he was shit can’t hit a target by hand or foot and cost us 2 goals in the 4th that started their run on.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Tom Green

20 possessions
4 tackles
3 marks
2 goals
9 Contested Possessions
5 clearances
78% DE
80% Game Time

Its only Half Time !!!!

 

[Roksman]

A lot of people calling Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

a plodder last trade period have egg on their faces.

His price just went up double.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Well the answer is not Aarts, Baker nor Edwards against big mids. Cotchin had to take Cripps all night. Gave him 10cm and 10kg's and had no hope. We need some players who have a bit of weight on their bones to crack in, every side has them but us. RCD may or may not have done well, I guess we will find out shortly, but at least he is big enough to lend some weight to our featherweight pack. Ross the same. As inside mids, if they cannot crack in what is the point of them being on the list. You have to give them a game there first I guess to challenge them.

Ross first started in the middle before he hurt himself , then our brainstrust turned him into a hbf, go back before the purple patch and all we recruited were hbf, once we got a couple of midfielders to support cotch , we win three flags, now that our strong midfielders are done we have reverted to hbf, we had a great draft hand , what did we recruit, rebounding half backs

 

[Astutepickens]

Tom green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

pls

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

A lot of people calling Tom Green a plodder last trade period have egg on their faces.

His price just went up double.

I got kicked in the teeth here for saying i would offer him $750k x 5 yer deal




Edit : I would now offer him $800k x 7 year deal

 

[tropicaltiger]

Well the answer is not Aarts, Baker nor Edwards against big mids. Cotchin had to take Cripps all night. Gave him 10cm and 10kg's and had no hope. We need some players who have a bit of weight on their bones to crack in, every side has them but us. RCD may or may not have done well, I guess we will find out shortly, but at least he is big enough to lend some weight to our featherweight pack. Ross the same. As inside mids, if they cannot crack in what is the point of them being on the list. You have to give them a game there first I guess to challenge them.

you failed to mention jack graham as well in that good summery. I would like to see Nick Vlossy have another crack as a mid, we have an abundance of back flankers.

 

[Bird Man]

Everyone keeps banging on about RCD and the other kids in the VFL. I'm assuming they played in the annihilation the other day by Carlton's VFL side. How did they go?

I've seen very little from RCD to date. We have zero depth in our midfield.

A squad of 30 has been named for the clash, including AFL-listed Tigers Sydney Stack, Noah Cumberland, Josh Caddy, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Thomson Dow, Matt Parker and Maurice Rioli Jnr. Three of last year's AFL draftees, Tom Brown, Tyler Sonsie and Judson Clarke also feature in the line-up.

 

[Simche]

Our midfield dept is partly due to our recent success and not having any high draft picks. To say we haven't tried to stay mids is fully true. First round picks since 2017 preimership include: Jack Higgins 2017; Riley C-D 2018; Thomson Dow 2019. Plus second round picks on Jack Ross, Will Martin, and TylerSonie

It's got nothing to do with where we are picking and everything to do with 'who' we have picked. Hindsight is 20/20 and recruiting is a tough gig, but the fact of the matter is that we've been recruiting, in my opinion, the wrong type of players early:
2021 - Gibcus (tall), Brown (flanker)
2020 - No picks inside the first round, Ryan (tall)
2019 - Dow (mid), Ralphsmith (flanker)
2018 - RCD (mid), Ross (mid)
2017 - Higgins (flanker), Coleman-Jones (tall), Balta (tall)
2016 - Bolton (flanker) - yes I know he's developed the capability to run through the middle but that's not where he actually plays most of the time.
2015 - Rioli (pocket/flanker)
2014 - Corey Ellis (I had to look up his draft profile given what a bust this was, he's listed as mid/utility but I would have categorised him as a potato), Menadue (flanker)
2013 - Lennon (forward flanker)

That's 7 flankers, 4 talls and 4 mids in the top two rounds of the draft where history shows the best midfielders are generally taken.

For example let's look at the top 10 in the Brownlow last year:
Wines - 1st Round
Bontempelli - 1st Round
Oliver - 1st Round
Walsh - 1st Round
Parish - 1st Round
Steele - 2nd Round
T. Mitchell - 1st Round (F/S)
Boak - 1st Round
Lyons - 4th Round
Petracca - 1st Round

Perhaps we're looking at the wrong types in the wrong places and have done so for a number of years....... I'll also note of those above almost all bar Bont were taken as what I would describe as 'pure' midfielders. We seem to draft blokes who have 'characteristics' that we like hoping they'll grow into a unicorn like Bont has. It's not a high percentage play.

I would point out that there were options available to us at the pics we took. The Lennon over Cripps one for example.... or Ellis over Steele or Miller, etc.

Tom Green

20 possessions
4 tackles
3 marks
2 goals
9 Contested Possessions
5 clearances
78% DE
80% Game Time

Its only Half Time !!!!

He certainly played exceptionally, but I am yet to understand why everyone seems to think he is going to come to us given he was raised up north, has been in the GWS program and to all casual observers appears very happy right where he is. Michael's premierships and career may never have even been watched growing up given kids these days probably don't know how to operate a VHS.

Further to that, I reckon if it were me I would be looking at playing with the likes of RCD, Ross and co and thinking 'maybe I'm better up here with Hopper, Kelly, Taranto and co'.......

Not to mention that it's going to cost us at least 2 first rounders to get him. You'd be looking at Tim Kelly type collateral and look how well that's gone for the Westralians.......

 

[Falcon3518]

I still don’t understand why we drafted so many defenders last year. Gibcus I understand but I was spewing we didn’t trade up to get Hobbs as well. Drafting Banks and Clarke was baffling, we could’ve used those picks to get a big inside mid or two.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Rich01]

I still don’t understand why we drafted so many defenders last year. Gibcus I understand but I was spewing we didn’t trade up to get Hobbs as well. Drafting Banks and Clarke was baffling, we could’ve used those picks to get a big inside mid or two.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We offered Essendon the Brown pick and the Sonsie pick for their pick to get Hobbs. They said no. To get Hobbs we probably would have had to have given them the Banks pick as well.

Brown, Sonsie and Banks for Hobbs? Time will tell but I’ll back our three.

And as for Banks and Clarke, I think the former will develop into a running outside mid while Clarke is being groomed into the Lambert role (which we badly need). Who knows if they will make it but I don’t mind the picks here.

Who did you have pinned as the big inside mids we should have drafted at these picks?

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

It's got nothing to do with where we are picking and everything to do with 'who' we have picked. Hindsight is 20/20 and recruiting is a tough gig, but the fact of the matter is that we've been recruiting, in my opinion, the wrong type of players early:
2021 - Gibcus (tall), Brown (flanker)
2020 - No picks inside the first round, Ryan (tall)
2019 - Dow (mid), Ralphsmith (flanker)
2018 - RCD (mid), Ross (mid)
2017 - Higgins (flanker), Coleman-Jones (tall), Balta (tall)
2016 - Bolton (flanker) - yes I know he's developed the capability to run through the middle but that's not where he actually plays most of the time.
2015 - Rioli (pocket/flanker)
2014 - Corey Ellis (I had to look up his draft profile given what a bust this was, he's listed as mid/utility but I would have categorised him as a potato), Menadue (flanker)
2013 - Lennon (forward flanker)

That's 7 flankers, 4 talls and 4 mids in the top two rounds of the draft where history shows the best midfielders are generally taken.

For example let's look at the top 10 in the Brownlow last year:
Wines - 1st Round
Bontempelli - 1st Round
Oliver - 1st Round
Walsh - 1st Round
Parish - 1st Round
Steele - 2nd Round
T. Mitchell - 1st Round (F/S)
Boak - 1st Round
Lyons - 4th Round
Petracca - 1st Round

Perhaps we're looking at the wrong types in the wrong places and have done so for a number of years....... I'll also note of those above almost all bar Bont were taken as what I would describe as 'pure' midfielders. We seem to draft blokes who have 'characteristics' that we like hoping they'll grow into a unicorn like Bont has. It's not a high percentage play.

I would point out that there were options available to us at the pics we took. The Lennon over Cripps one for example.... or Ellis over Steele or Miller, etc.


He certainly played exceptionally, but I am yet to understand why everyone seems to think he is going to come to us given he was raised up north, has been in the GWS program and to all casual observers appears very happy right where he is. Michael's premierships and career may never have even been watched growing up given kids these days probably don't know how to operate a VHS.

Further to that, I reckon if it were me I would be looking at playing with the likes of RCD, Ross and co and thinking 'maybe I'm better up here with Hopper, Kelly, Taranto and co'.......

Not to mention that it's going to cost us at least 2 first rounders to get him. You'd be looking at Tim Kelly type collateral and look how well that's gone for the Westralians.......

Well he is a professional footballer
He barracks for the Richmond Tigers
Richmond Tigers would love to have him and he is exactly the player we need
His grandfather was a Richmond premiership player
GWS have Coniglio , Kelly , Hopper , Greene , Toranto and a sheet load of players on fresh contracts on huge $$$$
GWS also has another 4-5 young kids that will also be demanding big $$$ in the next 2 years and their cap is tighter than mother teresa

From 2023 onwards with the departures of Jack , Edwards , Caddy , Cotchin and the ending of Dusty & Lynch contracts we will have a load of cap space to offer him $800k x 7 year deal

 

[Bird Man]

I got kicked in the teeth here for saying i would offer him $750k x 5 yer deal




Edit : I would now offer him $800k x 7 year deal

Gun player but would come into an ageing side with too many vets and not enough up and coming talent

 

[Tiger71]

View attachment 1346920


We can add Carlton to this list. Rebuild is on, if we wanted to "go again" would have traded for a decent mid or two. For all the media and pump up we did in pre-season that game against the blues was a disgrace.

Our midfield will get smoked in most games now Cotch, Edwards, Dion, lambert are cooked. Graham, Ross and the next wave of Mids are VFL "top up" tier level players.

Laughing in the pre-season, how about now Tiger71 tigerfan1961 Nebular Dr Tigris ???

Round 1 and you post a gotcha thread hahaha


Round 1 can throw up weird results. I am not downplaying the loss, we have some serious issues but I feel most can be corrected. I am an old school type. I stick fat and dont just jump at calling careers after round 1, regardless of how bad a loss is. People may say "Tigs, we have lost games last year too" in some way to reinforce your mindset that all is shit, and everyone is cooked hello bottom 4. My thoughts, last year was last year, has no bearing on this year. Simply the last half of the year we were cooked and had half a side playing, has no bearing to this year.

In the blues game, our cooked and shit midfield that you believe Bird Man were actually performing really well in the first quarter. Prestia gets injured and then we struggled to adapt in the second, rallied to win the third but folded like a pack of cards in the 4th. Wonder how the blues mids would have gone if they lost cripps 10 minutes into the first, would that mean all the other blue mids are cooked ? I dont think so.

IMO two types of people. 1 type that love to throw in the towel early as its easier to be eco then invested. 2 those that stick fat and react when you have more then one game as a sample side. I still vividly remember 2017 leading up to the port game when posters like you were claiming we are done, no good, sack hardwick. We then went on and beat port who were at the time in red hot form with a bunch of kids.

We lost Friday due to being undisciplined, giving up 10 50's which directly resulted in 6 goals for the blues.

We lost Friday as we did not work hard enough for long enough compared to the blues. Why that was the case was maybe we went in thinking its a round 1 game against an opponent who we have accounted for 8 straight years and the blues as they have admitted in the past went into the game as if its a final. You off by 5% you will get spanked.

We also had a coaching group take risks that did not pay off. Nank playing when he did not train for 7 days due to ISO and Graham straight in with zero match fitness.

Also our setup at stoppages ( that is where we really lost the game) was woeful but I attribute that in part to going in with a new structure and being exposed.

Bottom line, I do not think we are cooked and need to give up like you do Bird. If by round 12 we are sitting 4 and 8 or 5 and 7 then I will then be all for playing the kids as a matter of priority and tell whoever our elder players that are still not performing that time that we need to now bring the new blood through but till then, I'll stick fat .

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Ross was not sh*t, far from our worst

He was awful. Anytime he tried anything he turned it over and then padded his stats with sideways and short kicks. Poor handballer as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Falcon3518]

We offered Essendon the Brown pick and the Sonsie pick for their pick to get Hobbs. They said no. To get Hobbs we probably would have had to have given them the Banks pick as well.

Brown, Sonsie and Banks for Hobbs? Time will tell but I’ll back our three.

And as for Banks and Clarke, I think the former will develop into a running outside mid while Clarke is being groomed into the Lambert role (which we badly need). Who knows if they will make it but I don’t mind the picks here.

Who did you have pinned as the big inside mids we should have drafted at these picks?

My cousin and I were thinking of drafting 1 or 2 of Johnson, Goater or Knevitt (as they are all around 190cm + and can play both inside and outside) using some of the Brown, Banks and Clarke picks. Johnson was a steal at 21 even if he’s from interstate.

Our current mids are scrawny af so they can’t stick tackles on bigger bodies or contest the mark. Collier-Dawkins is the right size but for some reason we aren’t playing him even though he’s been on the list for years. I don’t know if they think he is isn’t ready yet but he looked good to me when he was in.

This could of set our mid up for years with a recruit like Tom Greene as well in the future with Gibcus as a bonus. Look, I back our recruiting team as they are the experts but I hope that we haven’t just assumed we could fix the issues we had last year so easily this year with our current list.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com