Coach Our next coach - Training Wheels included

[Elmer_Hauser]

But we will accept sexual harassment instead

If you ask me, what Clarkson did on field to Ian Atiken was far worse than anything Lyon's alleged to have said or done (which I am not condoning at all)

We cannot afford to be so self-righteous when it comes to who is coaching our club.

Nobody's perfect

 

[AceAndy]

But I think the media may make a big deal about it … and the club should be prepared. If it has been decided it’s Ross.

There has certainly been a lot of speculation about Ross Lyon and Carlton in the media. I have yet to hear anyone in the media bring up the Carlton Respects issue.

Seems to be an issue more for some of the BF posters than the media.

 

[Metalcrusher]

There has certainly been a lot of speculation about Ross Lyon and Carlton in the media. I have yet to hear anyone in the media bring up the Carlton Respects issue.

Seems to be an issue more for some of the BF posters than the media.

That will be kept as ammo for later ... although the last year he has been swooning the media darlings Depends how much currency he has ....

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

But I think the media may make a big deal about it … and the club should be prepared. If it has been decided it’s Ross.

I don't think the media will care tbh, think he has won a lot of them over with his channel 9 and Triple M.

Think it's only an issue for a minority of supporters. Wouldn't stress about it really.

 

[AceAndy]

That will be kept as ammo for later ... although the last year he has been swooning the media darlings Depends how much currency he has ....

What exactly are you suggesting here Crusher ?

 

[Metalcrusher]

What exactly are you suggesting here Crusher ?

The media will do, what the media will do What ever gets the foamers ... foaming. Media is pretty simple really.

 

[bmaurizio]

There has certainly been a lot of speculation about Ross Lyon and Carlton in the media. I have yet to hear anyone in the media bring up the Carlton Respects issue.

Seems to be an issue more for some of the BF posters than the media.

Agree, lets hope it remains that way, need to move on with the overhauling of our club.
Respect issues should have no boundries and encompass, gender, race, religion, this not a lofty mentality but common humility and basic appreciation of one's environment.

 

[Arr0w]

If you ask me, what Clarkson did on field to Ian Atiken was far worse than anything Lyon's alleged to have said or done (which I am not condoning at all)

We cannot afford to be so self-righteous when it comes to who is coaching our club.

Nobody's perfect

Neither are acceptable acts, so we shouldn't condone any of them.

Interesting isn't, supporters talk about the club lacking culture, yet are will to disregard the very fabric it's built on when it suits a need

 

[mochacinolatte]

Neither are acceptable acts, so we shouldn't condone any of them.

Interesting isn't, supporters talk about the club lacking culture, yet are will to disregard the very fabric it's built on when it suits a need

Imagine trying to justify acts of the lesser evil.

You would hope that he became a better human being after that incident.

 

[Brezsa]

I don't think the media will care tbh, think he has won a lot of them over with his channel 9 and Triple M.

Think it's only an issue for a minority of supporters. Wouldn't stress about it really.

Even if the media does if we are a half decent club we can fix and change the narrative fast. Have Lyon address it directly and apologise for his pass actions and comment on how he is incredibly excited to work with Carlton respects to become a better man as are all the players.

He does that, changes the narrative to a redemption story, only blows up again if new controversy pops up

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Neither are acceptable acts, so we shouldn't condone any of them.

Interesting isn't, supporters talk about the club lacking culture, yet are will to disregard the very fabric it's built on when it suits a need

Let's play Devils Advocate here, can we afford to be picky with regards to the character of a coach many people including myself consider the best candidate to fix our poor and mediocre playing culture in Ross Lyon.

Is it not possible to.assume he has changed and matured as a person, and learnt his lesson ans will not do it again?

The club has been so poor on field for so long, we cannot afford to not get the best or most qualified coach/person for the job because they have had a couple of thoughtless and inappropriate verbal lapses of judgment in the past.

I honestly don't reconcile hiring Ross Lyon as coach is a statement that the club actually condones Sexual Harassment.

 

[Arr0w]

Let's play Devils Advocate here, can we afford to be picky with regards to the character of a coach many people including myself consider the best candidate to fix our poor and mediocre playing culture in Ross Lyon.

Is it not possible to.assume he has changed and matured as a person, and learnt his lesson ans will not do it again?

The club has been so poor on field for so long, we cannot afford to not get the best or most qualified coach/person for the job because they have had a couple of thoughtless and inappropriate verbal lapses of judgment in the past.

I honestly don't reconcile hiring Ross Lyon as coach is a statement that the club actually condones Sexual Harassment.

See, that first line contradicts itself a number of times. We can be picky in regards to character, he isn't what I would call the best candidate, moreso being available and then you highlight him adding to our culture. People that commit poor, many do deserve a 2nd chance, but that shouldn't include us being the ones to sacrifice our beliefs and yes, culture

Thoughtless? Lapses? Let's not downplay it. We might not be condoning it, but that doesn't mean we should accept this as an organisation when there are other viable candidates

Don't complain about culture then be open and or embrace these appointments

 

[JustaBattler]

See, that first line contradicts itself a number of times. We can be picky in regards to character, he isn't what I would call the best candidate, moreso being available and then you highlight him adding to our culture. People that commit poor, many do deserve a 2nd chance, but that shouldn't include us being the ones to sacrifice our beliefs and yes, culture

Thoughtless? Lapses? Let's not downplay it. We might not be condoning it, but that doesn't mean we should accept this as an organisation when there are other viable candidates

Don't complain about culture then be open and or embrace these appointments

Do you think Clarkson has a 'better' reputation than Lyon? Ask the teenage ump at the kids game monstered - far worse angry man stuff on display.
What about Don Pyke? Seriously some coach who reckons doing some half arsed kidnap and interrogate routine in teh bush run by some maniac idjots playing out teenage pimply-faced boy fantasies - is a good idea?
What about Buckley? Kicking the salary cap can down the road and then making up lies about his own players to get them to leve the Club htat they have sacrificed time/money and loyalty too? How about dumping his wife and children for a younger version?

I don't know anyone who hasn't done the 'wrong thing at some point in their life who has actually lived a life. We have all at some point broken one rule or done something that we regret.

Surprised you are making this a big issue tbh -the only 'innocent' people in the world are the ones who haven't been found out yet.

 

[Arr0w]

Do you think Clarkson has a 'better' reputation than Lyon? Ask the teenage ump at the kids game monstered - far worse angry man stuff on display.
What about Don Pyke? Seriously some coach who reckons doing some half arsed kidnap and interrogate routine in teh bush run by some maniac idjots playing out teenage pimply-faced boy fantasies - is a good idea?
What about Buckley? Kicking the salary cap can down the road and then making up lies about his own players to get them to leve the Club htat they have sacrificed time/money and loyalty too? How about dumping his wife and children for a younger version?

I don't know anyone who hasn't done the 'wrong thing at some point in their life who has actually lived a life. We have all at some point broken one rule or done something that we regret.

Surprised you are making this a big issue tbh -the only 'innocent' people in the world are the ones who haven't been found out yet.

That wasn't my point.

Moreso, don't complain that we, as a club have poor culture and or need to improve it, then rejoice and or ignore a factor that doesn't lend to possibly improving it

As a pure coach, confident that someone like Lyon would improve our output and consistency, how far he takes us, is another conversational phase

 

[JustaBattler]

See, that first line contradicts itself a number of times. We can be picky in regards to character, he isn't what I would call the best candidate, moreso being available and then you highlight him adding to our culture. People that commit poor, many do deserve a 2nd chance, but that shouldn't include us being the ones to sacrifice our beliefs and yes, culture

Thoughtless? Lapses? Let's not downplay it. We might not be condoning it, but that doesn't mean we should accept this as an organisation when there are other viable candidates

Don't complain about culture then be open and or embrace these appointments

That wasn't my point.

Moreso, don't complain that we, as a club have poor culture and or need to improve it, then rejoice and or ignore a factor that doesn't lend to possibly improving it

As a pure coach, confident that someone like Lyon would improve our output and consistency, how far he takes us, is another conversational phase

What wasn't your 'point'?

Correct me if I am wrong here....the underlined bits are what I was referencing ....

In response to your second quote

I don't 'complain' - for me to 'complain' means that I have some belief in being owed something - I don't feel any entitlement to anything from a football Club.
However, I do have opinions about what works and what doesn't - if that is your idea of 'complaining' so be it.

 

[Arr0w]

What wasn't your 'point'?

Correct me if I am wrong here....the underlined bits are what I was referencing ....

In response to your second quote

I don't 'complain' - for me to 'complain' means that I have some belief in being owed something - I don't feel any entitlement to anything from a football Club.
However, I do have opinions about what works and what doesn't - if that is your idea of 'complaining' so be it.

This is the post I first replied too. One highlight trying to downgrade the action. The second is a massive oxymoron

I am not defending Lyon's past actions, but he is hardly guilty of committing violence against women..

If he was, I hardly think Caro would feel comfortable working alongside him on Footy Classified.

I assume RTB has learnt from his mistakes and won't repeat them, let's just let bygones be bygones, he will be our next coach and will do great things for our club and turning around our mediocre culture.


Anyway, I am done here

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Calling it now.

Ross Lyon will be the next coach of The Carlton Football Club (reckon Clarkson will take a year off).

Actually keen to see what kind of culture and discipline changes Ross the Boss will bring to our footy club actually.

Club is looking to beef up the assistants and footy department next season too according to the HUN.

Exciting times ahead!

Agreed, but I was hoping that they would go for the next generation in Caracella. Lyon has a poor track record of throwing his hands up and pulling the skirt over his head when things don't go his way. He did it at St.Kilda and Freo and no doubt he will do it again if it goes pear-shaped. This tough disciplinarian thing sounds great, but this group is mentally weak, lack on-field leadership and will fall apart as soon as they are held accountable. He had great leaders at St.Kilda and Fremantle, but honestly, there is nothing in this group.

The issue here is does the new President and the Board have the belief that this list is good enough to play finals? My gut feeling is that they would say yes.
If Lyon comes on board, he will have to agree with that judgment. I cannot see him saying to the Board the list is overrated and we have to to do a partial rebuild. So in essence he will already be a yes man. Therefore in 3 years, the expectation will be that not only will be playing finals, but we will be aiming for a top 4 spot and a flag.

As usual, time will tell, but let's see where we are in 3 years, but this is going to end in tears.

 

[JustaBattler]

This is the post I first replied too. One highlight trying to downgrade the action. The second is a massive oxymoron

I am not defending Lyon's past actions, but he is hardly guilty of committing violence against women..

If he was, I hardly think Caro would feel comfortable working alongside him on Footy Classified.

I assume RTB has learnt from his mistakes and won't repeat them, let's just let bygones be bygones, he will be our next coach and will do great things for our club and turning around our mediocre culture.


Anyway, I am done here

thanks for explaining ...I get what you were trying to say - all good

 

[DirtyLeeds]

There has certainly been a lot of speculation about Ross Lyon and Carlton in the media. I have yet to hear anyone in the media bring up the Carlton Respects issue.

Seems to be an issue more for some of the BF posters than the media.

I would get our Director, Patty Kinnersly, CEO Our Watch, to announce that Ross is the new coach, and have him make a BIG statement re harassment that would shut up all media speculation.....

 

[JamisonRun40]

I really over getting a new coach etc every friggin two years. It doesn't build stability at all for all involved.
Yesterday on Perth ABC Ben Cameron was asked if Lyons would be coaching Carlton and he seemed to think so but the kicker was if Carlton want Cerra he will not play under Lyons. Food for thought.
I hated Lyons game play at Freo it was so bloody boring.

 

[Magruder]

Voss doesn't interview well, happened again with the Collingwood role.

I get that. Always struggled with them myself.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I really over getting a new coach etc every friggin two years. It doesn't build stability at all for all involved.
Yesterday on Perth ABC Ben Cameron was asked if Lyons would be coaching Carlton and he seemed to think so but the kicker was if Carlton want Cerra he will not play under Lyons. Food for thought.
I hated Lyons game play at Freo it was so bloody boring.

Not to be picky, but it's Lyon not Lyons.

 

[Carlton_Blues]

If we get Ross expect to win 2 of the first 10 and then 8 of the next 12 to be there about.

He turned the Dockers around in his first season teaching them defence and playing your role.

I would expect the same with us.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I’d really like to see Lyon coach us next season, I think he’d be a really good fit and not cost us an arm and a leg. His game plan strength seems to compliment our current weakness.

 

[Magruder]

Do you think Clarkson has a 'better' reputation than Lyon? Ask the teenage ump at the kids game monstered - far worse angry man stuff on display.
What about Don Pyke? Seriously some coach who reckons doing some half arsed kidnap and interrogate routine in teh bush run by some maniac idjots playing out teenage pimply-faced boy fantasies - is a good idea?
What about Buckley? Kicking the salary cap can down the road and then making up lies about his own players to get them to leve the Club htat they have sacrificed time/money and loyalty too? How about dumping his wife and children for a younger version?

I don't know anyone who hasn't done the 'wrong thing at some point in their life who has actually lived a life. We have all at some point broken one rule or done something that we regret.

Surprised you are making this a big issue tbh -the only 'innocent' people in the world are the ones who haven't been found out yet.

More than one rule, sometimes at the same time

 

[BlueTongue]

We keep changing the coach but the coach has never been the problem.

1. Problem dates back to the 90s when poor management lead to financial problems, we literally became a poor club back then even though on the outside we still looked and behaved as a wealthy club. One thing we can say is that we are finally out of debt and a financially viable club again but this has just happened.

2. Arrogance, blindness and further mismanagement took us further down the rabbit hole. I mentioned to someone the other day that had Andrew Russell came to Carlton instead of Essendon in 2000 and our idiot president kept his mouth shut then we would have had Aaron Hamill that season and we would have been a supremely fit side as Essendon were and we would have been premiers that season IMO. We were good that season but we were not to the level of fitness the Bombers where or even Melbourne for that matter, our success was based on pure class and Kouta. What has this got to do with where we are now? These were the first signs that we were falling behind the rest of the competition. Fitness, list management, sports science. We had a good list but these areas were badly neglected. Are we there yet? Absolutely not!

3. Salary cap scandal. It all came to a massive blow. Years of poor recruiting saw a terrible list in need of a rebuild. Draft penalties stopped the progress there and cost us big. However other issues happened at the same time. Clubs poverty problems meant we nearly went out of existence and relied on hand outs. A mass retirement of leaders of the club meant that the club had no leadership. What followed was a toxic culture that meant players didn't develop and didn't perform. The constant off field issues were one thing but the lacks of drive, discipline and push that leadership provides wasn't there. Talent walked in had a mediocre career and walked out. The club has never fixed the culture and lack of leadership issues. Without leaders the coach's message is not reiterated and if that isn't happening then the coach can't get the players to do what he wants and what is needed to be done to be successful.

4. Our footy department is terrible, look at our injuries, it has to be mismanagement. Pagan never had a chance, he was at a poor club with a poor culture and very few draft picks. Ratten and Teague were rookie coaches and they made typical mistakes rookie coaches are going to make if they have no support. Rookie coaches only work if they are naturally good and have done a really long apprenticeship under a good coach or are going to a strong mature established side and have good support around them. Rookie coaches generally succeed with a good senior assistant around them. These two had none of that. Malthouse came to a terrible list that had no youth coming through, but what was worth is that he was dealing with an older bunch who had been developed without leadership and therefore needed to be changed but could not be changed. He came from Collingwood who had a strong leadership group who backed him up to Carlton who had no leadership at all, only by title. Bolton, no chance, again poorly staffed. We have had one of the the worst footy departments going around for so long we just keep going around in circles. Imagine being half trained in your field or any field really, then all of a sudden getting promoted to the top and told to do that job and you're on your own, no senior people around you to help? This is Carlton's coaching structure.

It's never been the coach, it's always been us. We badly lack people at the club who know what it takes to build a footy department.

Nah, it’s been a perfect storm of a few things, but there’s been at least 2 coaches that were never going to succeed in Pagan & Malthouse. Pagan had one game plan, Pagans paddock. He didn’t have Carey, he had Fev. I saw an interview with Richo on the weekend where he talked about when pagan tried to get him to Carlton and said something like “Picture this, you in the forward line by yourself”. It didn’t work with Fev, not because he wasn’t Carey, but because the game plan had been worked out, done and dusted. No plan B.

Mick was given way too much power, but it was never going to work because his ego was too big and he was sulking about being pushed out by Collingwood. He just wanted a fast revenge-team up and going ASAP, no long term plan for success.