Outlook Rocky: he likes an expensive Tawny

[Squizz89]

Just reading through the off contract list for this year and noticed there wasn't much response in there so mods I apologise if this belongs in there and please move it if it does.

Edit: also didn't know about being in the trade thread but thought it was more a list discussion as opposed to trade. Again feel free to move.

Below is the list of off contract players for this year:

2017:
Tom Rockliff
Nicholas Robertson
Michael Close
Daniel McStay
Tom Cutler
Claye Beams
Jonathan Freeman
Ryan Harwood
Jarrad Jensen
Josh Schache
Ben Keays
Josh Clayton
Cian Hanley (R)
Matthew Hammelmann (R)
Reuben William (R)
Matt Eagles (R)
Blake Grewar (R)
Jake Barrett (R)
Mitchell Hinge (R)
Oscar McInerney (R)

How do we see it playing out at the end of the year and is this a good chance to have another real good clean out given the caliber of players there above off contract?

Obviously there's the main 4 I think we all want to keep in the thread title and then I see Close, NRobbo and Keays all sticking around as I don't see them being in huge demand and they are getting enough game time here to be reasonably happy.

I believe all the other names on the senior list in particular could all be in trouble and moved on if we could.

My worry is we lose "the big 4" and we have to keep players like those listed above on the list for a few more years just to fill spots.

Soooo who stays? Who goes? Who may we have to keep?

 

[Saucery]

......How do we see it playing out at the end of the year and is this a good chance to have another real good clean out given the caliber of players there above off contract?

.....I believe all the other names on the senior list in particular could all be in trouble and moved on if we could.......

I am still not clear on how another clean out will necessarily benefit us:

• More kids equals we get younger, less experienced and more easily pushed around.
• There probably won't be much mid tier talent out there that is much better than what we have (and are willing to move north) other than more role players. Which are fine for established squads but we need continuity.

If we keep turning over the list for no effect we gain little but instability, which adds to the lack of loyalty and loss of the talent we want to keep.

If we want loyalty we need to show some first.

There are no quick fixes here other than staying the course.

 

[Squizz89]

I understand what you're saying and do agree to an extent however as we know every team has to turn over their list every year to some extent anyway.

If we were able to keep the ones we want eg the four mentioned + Robbo, Keays and Close then I see no reason why we can't be a bit more cut throat with the rest of them. I guess Freeman may be a prime example of that.

However should we lose 2-4 of the above mentioned players then we may be forced to keep some players again that ideally we would have off the list by now.

I do agree with you though we can't afford to go in younger again next year so I hope we keep the ones we want otherwise things could get extremely ugly.

 

[marooned]

For me it's Jansen,Clayton,Hanley and Eagles delisted, Freeman as steak knives.This wouldn't be a massive turnover amount of players and brings in the next batch of youngsters.

 

[mrcs]

I'm hopeful that Rockliff will stay. After all the speculation that he may leave, he seems to have turned a corner somewhat this year in terms of his off-field attitude, culminating in him being voted in as vice captain after being stripped of the captaincy. And it would be nice to see him also get back to the form that saw him polling highly in the Brownlow count and making the All Australian team a few years ago in terms of his on-field performance. I think it's important that prominent figures at the club stick it out to set an example for the younger guys coming through that may be thinking of leaving, and I'm hoping that Rockliff's attitude is pointing towards this being the case.

 

[briztoon]

So AFL rule is that you must delist a minimum of 3 players and either draft 3 players or upgrade rookies, or a combo of the two.

C. Haney is gone as I do not see him being upgraded.
Don't think Eagles will get kept on, but if so, he's got two more years as a rookie.
Hammelmann is on the last year as a rookie, so he either gets upgraded or delisted.
Barrett will possibly deserve an upgrade.

I'd see us drafting at least four more kids. We have two firsts, a second and third round pick.

If any of our main out of contract players leaves and bring back a draft pick, I'm sure we'd use those as well.

We've got two Academy kids in the AFL academy (Connor Ballenden KPF/Ruck & Jack Clayton HBF), so it's possible we may match a bid on one or both if the club scouts agree that they're valued close to where they a bid on. Plus some academy watches have pointed out we have at least one other academy defender (Jack Payne) who might be a draft chance.

 

[pauldrc]

2017:
Tom Rockliff
Daniel McStay
Tom Cutler
Josh Schache
Ben Keays
Reuben William (R)
Jake Barrett (R)
Mitchell Hinge (R)
Oscar McInerney (R)

May be harsh, but IMHO the players we should 100% try to keep....

 

[Harris Specter]

Meh, if we continue to lose quality players who have shown potential to Victoria, I'm afraid the club will never rise up the ladder. We just can't sustain keeping on drafting kids and losing them to other clubs after developing them.

I'm not holding my breath at holding onto 2/4 of those players. I'm aware they already have got great offers already from certain Victorian juggernauts.

 

[lions27]

May be harsh, but IMHO the players we should 100% try to keep....

Solid

 

[DanT7]

Keep:
Tom Rockliff (this is a must)
Nicholas Robertson
Michael Close (thinks he's Browny reincarnated)
Daniel McStay (might make it as a defender?)
Tom Cutler (disposal seems to have gone downhill in 2017?)
Claye Beams (starting to show form)
Josh Schache (more for what it says)
Ben Keays (just had his best game)
Matthew Hammelmann (R) (bulk up mate)
Reuben William (R) (imagine him and Cox running off half back - exciting).
Oscar McInerney (R) - him and Archie tearing it up when Stef moves on. Gotta teach these boys to kick goals.
Blake Grewar (R) - doing well
Jake Barrett (R) - needs to get and use the pill. I'd be playing him HB in reserves.

Delist:
Jonathan Freeman - Hammelman has jumped him.
Ryan Harwood - just... yeah... not there right?
Jarrad Jensen - seems to have gone backwards under Fagan?
Josh Clayton - just had a good NEAFL game. Is Jack Clayton his bro? I get sentimental about that sorta stuff.
Mitchell Hinge (R) - just not impressing that much

Unsure:
Cian Hanley (R) - stuck by him so long... just wonder if maybe he will actually make it. What a story if he did!?
Matt Eagles (R) - steep learning curve for the big fella. A wait and see.

 

[AFLQLD]

I think Jansen and Eagles are not probably going to make it at AFL level. Jansen is not a terrible player but he has already been overtaken by those younger than him. Eagles is not going to offer enough that others can.

Freeman might have some trade currency but otherwise I think others have moved ahead of him and we can't keep all of the talls I feel. He seems the least adaptable of them.

Hanley - it will take some real eye opening performances from here I would think. Otherwise it is hard to consider upgrading him so he would have to go.

Clayton is looking like he is not coming on very quickly so he would be unlikely to get another contract unless he really flourishes from now until the end of the season. Unlikely to stay.

Harwood I am willing to give the season to. He might be useful depth, experience and a bigger body. He has his weaknesses but he can play a role. I am more inclined to keep him than not at this stage.

Grewar and Hinge might get another go as rookies unless we really need the list space. Possibly one to go.

I would say we would keep McInerney and could expect he will improve in the next couple of seasons. He looks like he will be at worst serviceable as a backup ruckman and a ceiling better than that once he puts on some size.

I would be upgrading two out of Barrett, Hammer and maybe Reuben although Reuben I think can do another year as a rookie. Perhaps Barrett as well. All well worth keeping though.

All the rest OOC players would be offered new contracts I reckon - Rockliff, Schache, NRobbo, McStay, Cutler, Close, Keays, CBeams. Hopefully we keep them all. Claye is probably the one most in danger.

Ignoring trades for the moment, I see six as about the right number to move on. Perhaps seven. We upgrade one or two, take 4 in the draft and maybe rookie or re-rookie one or two.

Of course trade week could change everything.

 

[a mayes ing]

Hope we keep Harwood, yes he has his deficiencies but we can't just keep delisting older mature players for young blokes. If we get more injuries, then we don't always want to have to bring in an under developed kid.

 

[13Beast]

May be harsh, but IMHO the players we should 100% try to keep....

Slightly off-topic but how is Hinge going? I remember there was a bit of hype when he was drafted, and apparently he was killing it in training etc. Haven't heard much since. Is he injured? Going alright in the ressies?

 

[John_Proctor]

aside from Rockliff Harwood is the most experienced on that list with 76 games and C Beams with 48. (McStay 47, Cutler 35 etc).

So I don't see loss of experience being an issue. I think the writer is dead right. If we lose the big 4 we are probably going to lower the talent on our list.

In addition to the big 4 I don't see us getting anyone better than Keays, Close, Robertson with draft pick 60+ or whatever we'd be using so should be trying to keep those 3.

But IMO as of right now I wouldn't be worried at all about losing, Janson, Clayton, Freeman (might survive if Close/McStay both left), Harwood, Beams (both potentially useful role players who could play there way to a 1 year extension over the next 15 weeks - one or the other or neither). That would create the opportunity to use our first 4 picks (3 in top 20 and then another at about pick 40ish as we have Pies 3rd rounder) and a 5th slot for a rookie upgrade or free agent (is someone like Jarrod Lyons available?)

we then do the same thing next year when its the like of Bell, Bewick, Lester out of contract - which would be losing experience but it should be experience we aren't picking in our starting 22 by then anyway as the likes of Luggage, Berry, Keays, become regulars.

I am still not clear on how another clean out will necessarily benefit us:

• More kids equals we get younger, less experienced and more easily pushed around.
• There probably won't be much mid tier talent out there that is much better than what we have (and are willing to move north) other than more role players. Which are fine for established squads but we need continuity.

If we keep turning over the list for no effect we gain little but instability, which adds to the lack of loyalty and loss of the talent we want to keep.

If we want loyalty we need to show some first.

There are no quick fixes here other than staying the course.

 

[Saucery]

aside from Rockliff Harwood is the most experienced on that list with 76 games and C Beams with 48. (McStay 47, Cutler 35 etc).

So I don't see loss of experience being an issue. I think the writer is dead right. If we lose the big 4 we are probably going to lower the talent on our list.

In addition to the big 4 I don't see us getting anyone better than Keays, Close, Robertson with draft pick 60+ or whatever we'd be using so should be trying to keep those 3.

But IMO as of right now I wouldn't be worried at all about losing, Janson, Clayton, Freeman (might survive if Close/McStay both left), Harwood, Beams (both potentially useful role players who could play there way to a 1 year extension over the next 15 weeks - one or the other or neither). That would create the opportunity to use our first 4 picks (3 in top 20 and then another at about pick 40ish as we have Pies 3rd rounder) and a 5th slot for a rookie upgrade or free agent (is someone like Jarrod Lyons available?)

we then do the same thing next year when its the like of Bell, Bewick, Lester out of contract - which would be losing experience but it should be experience we aren't picking in our starting 22 by then anyway as the likes of Luggage, Berry, Keays, become regulars.

Yes I do in hindsight agree that we must turn over some players obviously, I think my post was motivated about how transient our team seems to have become. We need to try and staunch the bleeding out of our best talent and I feel this should begin by showing some loyalty to our longer term mid-tier players, like Beams and Harwood. Further to this I would be OK with Bell being let go, not so much Bewick and especially Lester. Every club needs to keep some well worn furniture.

 

[M Malice]

IMO and contract length offer.

Tom Rockliff- Keep, offer him 3 years.
Nicholas Robertson- Keep, 2 years.
Michael Close- Keep, only 22 years old and still a year or 2 off, 2 years.
Daniel McStay- Keep, 21 years old, big upside, 3 years.
Tom Cutler-Keep, need him to step up as the run and gun defender ah la Johaniisen, Saad. 2 years.
Claye Beams- Keep, give him one more year.
Jonathan Freeman- Keep, will be 24 next year, on his last chance, 1 year.
Ryan Harwood- Keep, needs a good run with injury, is the type of player we need when at his best, 1 year.
Jarrad Jensen- Delist, just not up to AFL standard.
Josh Schache- Keep, offer him 4 years.
Ben Keays- Keep, is showing good signs, 2 years.
Josh Clayton- Delist, being overtaken.
Cian Hanley (R)- Jury out, only played 1 game of footy, will know more at the end of the season, 1 year.
Matthew Hammelmann (R)- Keep, showing some promising glimpses as a KPF, good depth at the worst, 2 years.
Reuben William (R)- Keep, big upside, 2 years.
Matt Eagles (R)- Delist, will never go past the big O or Archie.
Blake Grewar (R)- Keep, deserves one more year.
Jake Barrett (R)- Keep, one more year to make an AFL career for himself.
Mitchell Hinge (R)- Keep, the type of player Fagan likes ie. good disposal skills, 2 years.
Oscar McInerney (R)- Keep, been great in the NEAFL, 3 years.

 

[briztoon]

IMO and contract length offer.

Tom Rockliff- Keep, offer him 3 years.
Nicholas Robertson- Keep, 2 years.
Michael Close- Keep, only 22 years old and still a year or 2 off, 2 years.
Daniel McStay- Keep, 21 years old, big upside, 3 years.
Tom Cutler-Keep, need him to step up as the run and gun defender ah la Johaniisen, Saad. 2 years.
Claye Beams- Keep, give him one more year.
Jonathan Freeman- Keep, will be 24 next year, on his last chance, 1 year.
Ryan Harwood- Keep, needs a good run with injury, is the type of player we need when at his best, 1 year.
Jarrad Jensen- Delist, just not up to AFL standard.
Josh Schache- Keep, offer him 4 years.
Ben Keays- Keep, is showing good signs, 2 years.
Josh Clayton- Delist, being overtaken.
Cian Hanley (R)- Jury out, only played 1 game of footy, will know more at the end of the season, 1 year.
Matthew Hammelmann (R)- Keep, showing some promising glimpses as a KPF, good depth at the worst, 2 years.
Reuben William (R)- Keep, big upside, 2 years.
Matt Eagles (R)- Delist, will never go past the big O or Archie.
Blake Grewar (R)- Keep, deserves one more year.
Jake Barrett (R)- Keep, one more year to make an AFL career for himself.
Mitchell Hinge (R)- Keep, the type of player Fagan likes ie. good disposal skills, 2 years.
Oscar McInerney (R)- Keep, been great in the NEAFL, 3 years.

So we're not drafting anyone this year, and promoting Can Hanley and Matthew Hammelmann from rookies to the main list.

List management is going to be tight this season, and see some hard decisions made.

What are the rules in regards to delisting contracted players? Do we have to pay out the remaining year/s of their contracts?

 

[M Malice]

So we're not drafting anyone this year, and promoting Can Hanley and Matthew Hammelmann from rookies to the main list.

List management is going to be tight this season, and see some hard decisions made.

What are the rules in regards to delisting contracted players? Do we have to pay out the remaining year/s of their contracts?

Just my initial reaction to the players listed, we'll have to wait and see what happens with the rookie list system, could be abandoned at the end of the year.

Of that list of OOC players the others who would be under pressure would be, C.Beams, Freeman, Harwood, Hanley and Barrett although i still see some positives in keeping them on the list. We will more than likely be moving on 5-7 players at the end of the year and Rocky could be one if he decides to go via free agency.

There are a few players OOC in 2018 and beyond that should/could be de listing candidates IMO eg. Bell, Bewick, Dawson, Bastinac, Frost. They would have to be agreeable to a trade though and i can not see any other club wanting them.

 

[Forward We Go]

Make no mistake, Noble & Fagan have told the current list that EVERYONE is up for review. Noble & Fagan will continually analyse the current list and as the season progress's will make assessment's on players who can contribute to us making finals in the future and those players that cannot offer anything. The ones they believe cannot offer anything will be delisted. Noble had a significant say in Adelaide's current list of players and his knowledge on AFL player standards is unquestionable. IMO, great asset to our club and you can bet your house on a clean out at the end of the year.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Hopefully our 'big four' will work out better than the West Tigers...

 

[jackess]

If nobody is traded and there is still a rookie list under the same rules; I still think Jansen and Clayton will definitely be delisted and I think Harwood, C Beams and Freeman will probably be delisted. We'd want at least 4 list spots.

On the rookie list I think Hanley and Eagles will be delisted, Hammer and Grewar may also be delisted. Probably one of Barrett or Hammer to be upgraded but quite possibly neither.

 

[Squizz89]

Hopefully our 'big four' will work out better than the West Tigers...

I reckon it might end up the same as how they did with 1 staying 3 going. Don't ask me who but if I was to take a guess I think Rocky will stay and the other 3 may go.

 

[Forward We Go]

I reckon it might end up the same as how they did with 1 staying 3 going. Don't ask me who but if I was to take a guess I think Rocky will stay and the other 3 may go.

McStay going nowhere unless pushed out. Very happy with the Lions.

 

[13Beast]

I reckon it might end up the same as how they did with 1 staying 3 going. Don't ask me who but if I was to take a guess I think Rocky will stay and the other 3 may go.

Jeez that would be a disaster if we lost 3/4.

 

[Elixuh]

If nobody is traded and there is still a rookie list under the same rules; I still think Jansen and Clayton will definitely be delisted and I think Harwood, C Beams and Freeman will probably be delisted. We'd want at least 4 list spots.

On the rookie list I think Hanley and Eagles will be delisted, Hammer and Grewar may also be delisted. Probably one of Barrett or Hammer to be upgraded but quite possibly neither.

Mm yeah I agree with all of Jansen, Clayton, Beams, Harwood and Freeman. I would think that Bewick and Bell are considered depth 20+ on the list and will be out the door next season if there is no improvement (I don't know their contract status).