Ovens and King Football League 2013

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Looking forward to running out on the park on Saturday. It is going to be a training drill at Tatong with the black, white and teal witches hats. It is going to be like running the pivot on Saturday afternoon. With the form of Matho, Coxy and a few others we are looking good for the points this weekend.
 
SwanSong2010 said:
Looking forward to running out on the park on Saturday. It is going to be a training drill at Tatong with the black, white and teal witches hats. It is going to be like running the pivot on Saturday afternoon. With the form of Matho, Coxy and a few others we are looking good for the points this weekend.
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Like it!! Someone being positive and spruiking things up a bit...!!
 
SwanSong2010 said:
Looking forward to running out on the park on Saturday. It is going to be a training drill at Tatong with the black, white and teal witches hats. It is going to be like running the pivot on Saturday afternoon. With the form of Matho, Coxy and a few others we are looking good for the points this weekend.
Click to expand...

Upbeat as always SS...I hope Swannie know how lucky they are to have you watching their backs....:rolleyes:
 

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Briscoe 50 said:
Already after one round the scores show us that this year there is going to be a lot of one sided games again. Some teams are already struggling with player numbers and support staff what will happen in about 5 or 6 weeks when injuries and the cold weather kick in, I think thats its time for the vcfl to step in and start reasesing the league before its to late for some teams. One theory is that they maybe go back to a B&D style league next year with teams including Benalla all blacks, Goorambat, Tatong, Swanpool, Glenrowan, Bonnie doon, and Longwood(kdfl) making up the comp, What do all these teams have in common they aren't competitive against the stronger clubs in there respective comps. If they were in the same competition it would even the games up creating better games bigger crowds more interest from players and in some cases less travel for players and support staff. Lets face it who wants to play in a team that gets beaten by 250 points every week or who wants to play in a game that is close and competitive and means something to run out onto the ground every week...................... Any thoughts or ideas from anybody
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This is my first post on this board, so please forgive me for my ignorance, but I wanted to have a read of what was on here after Swanpool (like Longwood, after watching Murchison beat them 314-0, I had a heavy heart afterwards) didn't score in thier senior game last weekend, and having an Ovens & King Division Two could work, if you have the bottom 7 teams relegated (and Longwood join the new division two).

The Essendon League did this last season in thier division 2 last year, they had the same problems with the gap between the have and the have nots, so they had the normal rounds where everyone played each other once, the top 8 teams survived the fall to division 3 but the bottom 6 played off in a Division 3 finals series with the points won during round 1-13 being transfered over, after the division split, the top 8 were left to play off in a final 4, whilst the 6 bottom teams play off in a top 4 division 3 finals series, with the winner of the Division 3 Premiership being promoted to Division Two, whilst the side that finished last in the newly split Division Two has to go down to Division Three next season.

After that the Division stay permanent (with a promotion/relegation system for the premiers & wooden spooners), with an 8 team division Two including the Division Three Premiers and a Division Three with the relegated club from Division Two, the 5 remaining clubs plus any other clubs who would like to join (the Essendon League after doing all that has an 8 team division Three with two sides transfering over to the EDFL).

The Northern League (Diamond Valley) tried this very system several years ago to save a lot of the smaller clubs from going under, and so far it has been a success although the 3rd Division only has 7 teams (the NFL is desperate to make an 8 team division).

I hope that this isn't coming accross as a bunch of gobbledygook to everyone here, but I thought that any idea that saves clubs like this is worth considering, because there's no joy in flogging a side by over 300 points, and as football fan, anything we can do that can save the likes of Swanpool, Longwood or any other club staring down the barrel of extinction is well worth it
 
Joe Mama said:
This is my first post on this board, so please forgive me for my ignorance, but I wanted to have a read of what was on here after Swanpool (like Longwood, after watching Murchison beat them 314-0, I had a heavy heart afterwards) didn't score in thier senior game last weekend, and having an Ovens & King Division Two could work, if you have the bottom 7 teams relegated (and Longwood join the new division two).

The Essendon League did this last season in thier division 2 last year, they had the same problems with the gap between the have and the have nots, so they had the normal rounds where everyone played each other once, the top 8 teams survived the fall to division 3 but the bottom 6 played off in a Division 3 finals series with the points won during round 1-13 being transfered over, after the division split, the top 8 were left to play off in a final 4, whilst the 6 bottom teams play off in a top 4 division 3 finals series, with the winner of the Division 3 Premiership being promoted to Division Two, whilst the side that finished last in the newly split Division Two has to go down to Division Three next season.

After that the Division stay permanent (with a promotion/relegation system for the premiers & wooden spooners), with an 8 team division Two including the Division Three Premiers and a Division Three with the relegated club from Division Two, the 5 remaining clubs plus any other clubs who would like to join (the Essendon League after doing all that has an 8 team division Three with two sides transfering over to the EDFL).

The Northern League (Diamond Valley) tried this very system several years ago to save a lot of the smaller clubs from going under, and so far it has been a success although the 3rd Division only has 7 teams (the NFL is desperate to make an 8 team division).

I hope that this isn't coming accross as a bunch of gobbledygook to everyone here, but I thought that any idea that saves clubs like this is worth considering, because there's no joy in flogging a side by over 300 points, and as football fan, anything we can do that can save the likes of Swanpool, Longwood or any other club staring down the barrel of extinction is well worth it
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Anything like this is worth a crack at, but the O&K committees have never been frontrunners in making tough decisions to keep the league thriving and the VCFL never assisted in helping either. If the VCFL only allowed the Benalla and Wangaratta Junior Leagues to go to U/12 and U/14 would enable the O&K to have U/16 and U/18...there would be much healthier clubs in the O&K. This is the main reason why they lost Rutherglen and Beechworth to tallangatta league and probably a reason why Bright wants to go there too...
 
Tatsean said:
Anything like this is worth a crack at, but the O&K committees have never been frontrunners in making tough decisions to keep the league thriving and the VCFL never assisted in helping either. If the VCFL only allowed the Benalla and Wangaratta Junior Leagues to go to U/12 and U/14 would enable the O&K to have U/16 and U/18...there would be much healthier clubs in the O&K. This is the main reason why they lost Rutherglen and Beechworth to tallangatta league and probably a reason why Bright wants to go there too...
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Footy committee's rarely are places where good or left field ideas florish, and as far as the Junior set up goes, the Junior League set up's all well and good for the Ovens & Murray & Goulburn Valley Clubs (where it serves to suit the major clubs only), but it's of little benefit to those in the Ovens & King & Kyabram League because what happens is that the big clubs warehouse their players to the detriment of the minor league clubs (kids having to go to Euroa to play junior netball & football who live in Violet Town, who would otherwise be playing locally, this is also true for any kid living in Longwood), that's why it's a bit rich for the likes of Euroa and Tat to whinge about having thier seconds and fringe players playing in the KDFL for money to the detriment of thier reserves, when the minor clubs have to pay for those players, but they don't pay a thing to get the best junior players from the surrounding districts.

As much as I would love to have a Under 14's in the KDFL & Ovens & King, I think that very powerful forces (the VCFL, the junior leagues, the major clubs, etc) would sabotage any attempts to establish one, because the game's in thier favour.

Like having a more streamlined player permit system for those who aren't getting a game in the two's in the GV or O&M, to let them play for a side in the O&K or the KDFL (plus having stronger rules & fines for clubs that won't release surplus players to struggling clubs), would help.

But, it seems that instead of keeping as many clubs alive by being creative in how we run the sport, the VCFL just has this darwinian approach to the minor clubs in its midst, and if they think that footy's like a rose bush that benefits from cutting out the dead wood, they're wrong, losing clubs means losing players, interest and history.
 
Joe Mama said:
Footy committee's rarely are places where good or left field ideas florish, and as far as the Junior set up goes, the Junior League set up's all well and good for the Ovens & Murray & Goulburn Valley Clubs (where it serves to suit the major clubs only), but it's of little benefit to those in the Ovens & King & Kyabram League because what happens is that the big clubs warehouse their players to the detriment of the minor league clubs (kids having to go to Euroa to play junior netball & football who live in Violet Town, who would otherwise be playing locally, this is also true for any kid living in Longwood), that's why it's a bit rich for the likes of Euroa and Tat to whinge about having thier seconds and fringe players playing in the KDFL for money to the detriment of thier reserves, when the minor clubs have to pay for those players, but they don't pay a thing to get the best junior players from the surrounding districts.

As much as I would love to have a Under 14's in the KDFL & Ovens & King, I think that very powerful forces (the VCFL, the junior leagues, the major clubs, etc) would sabotage any attempts to establish one, because the game's in thier favour.

Like having a more streamlined player permit system for those who aren't getting a game in the two's in the GV or O&M, to let them play for a side in the O&K or the KDFL (plus having stronger rules & fines for clubs that won't release surplus players to struggling clubs), would help.

But, it seems that instead of keeping as many clubs alive by being creative in how we run the sport, the VCFL just has this darwinian approach to the minor clubs in its midst, and if they think that footy's like a rose bush that benefits from cutting out the dead wood, they're wrong, losing clubs means losing players, interest and history.
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Yep...well thought out...I agree!
 
trooper70 said:
Updated Flag Market

$2.75 Tarrawingee
$3.50 Milawa
$4.50 North Wangaratta
$6 Whorouly , King Valley
$8 Glenrowan
$10 Moyhu
$20 Bright
$50 Bonnie Doon
$60 Greta
$100 Goorambat
$150 Tatong
$1000 Benalla All Blacks / Swanpool
Click to expand...

It is no coincidence the bottom four clubs are from the same area. There is simply not enough players in and around Benalla for five clubs (including Saints) anymore. The only hope for clubs to survive in some fashion is to merge. Swanpool and Tatong would be a logical choice - the grounds are only 10 minutes apart.
 
Updated Flag Market

Fair ??????? OR Not ????? @ 130%

Big Movers
Moyhu ..aborition against Glenrowan ???

Movers
Glenrowan ..Have Moyhu franked their form ???..Tough win against Bonnie Doon apparently against odds
Jury Out still ???????

Steady

Milawa ...Havent made a mistake yet but have been impressive ...still more to show ??????
King Valley ..Great Draw ...havn't played anyone yet...Jury Out ??????
North Wang ...Still steady beaten by Tarra ...how good are Tarra ??? They are showing similar signs to last year and we all no what happened there .

Sliders

Whorouly ..Are they too old and big ??? Smashed by Milawa ..are they any good ????
Tarrawingee ...They have slid but its a long season ..were there excuses???? ..premierships are won in September and we are the September specialists!!!!!


Forget the rest ????

How much do we read into this weekends results ...??? Probably shows at this early stage as they were last year ...Milawa are the steady bet ... But they were bundled out in straight sets last year!


$3.25 Milawa
$4 Tarrawingee
$4.50 North Wang
$6 Glenrowan , Moyhu , King Valley
$8 Whorouly
$30 Bright
$50 Bonnie Doon
$100 Greta
$150 Goorambat
$250 Tatong
$500 Benalla All Blacks
$1000 Swanpool
 
Buddy95 said:
Yep...well thought out...I agree!
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Yep.... Junior league is holding O and K clubs to ransom and successfully allowing some O and K clubs to melt away and die !!! in regards to the 2 divisions at least its something rather than just letting clubs die ..Not sure that a merger between Tatong and Swanpool is ideal ...It could just make one big struggling club.

If there are going to be mergers I reckon it should be done in a way that the long term sustainability of the club needs to be factored in ...Maybe something like this is better ...Assuming a two tier divisional comp isnt constructed ... or another league formed .

Swanpool / Bonnie Doon?
Goorambat / All blacks ?
Greta or King Valley or Glenrowan Tatong ?

Bonnie Doon is an issue for the league...Nothing against them as a club but purely based on geography...

I reckon the following league should be set
Bonnie Doon
Swanpool
Goorambat
Benalla All Blacks
Tatong
Longwood
dookie
Yea or Avenal
 
After seeing Glenrowan first hand on Saturday I just wanted to say how impressed I was. They have improved out of sight compared to last year. I'm not sure what the comment above "Glenrowan beat Bonnie Doon against the odds" is in regards to, the lead changed several times during the game and Glenrowan got the win in the end.

As much as Glenrowan have improved and it's great to see, they won't get close to the likes of Milawa. They are a much better side now but still not in the top four imo.
 

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Another long day at the office, but Tatong aren't real flash... Talking up how good they were going to be during the pre season and they are terrible. Maybe they should stop being so stubborn and merge with us and Goorambat and be a force to be reckoned with in the Ovens and King. Looking forward to having Bright at home and inflicting some pain on that woeful side.
 
trooper70 said:
Yep.... Junior league is holding O and K clubs to ransom and successfully allowing some O and K clubs to melt away and die !!! in regards to the 2 divisions at least its something rather than just letting clubs die ..Not sure that a merger between Tatong and Swanpool is ideal ...It could just make one big struggling club.

If there are going to be mergers I reckon it should be done in a way that the long term sustainability of the club needs to be factored in ...Maybe something like this is better ...Assuming a two tier divisional comp isnt constructed ... or another league formed .

Swanpool / Bonnie Doon?
Goorambat / All blacks ?
Greta or King Valley or Glenrowan Tatong ?

Bonnie Doon is an issue for the league...Nothing against them as a club but purely based on geography...

I reckon the following league should be set
Bonnie Doon
Swanpool
Goorambat
Benalla All Blacks
Tatong
Longwood
dookie
Yea or Avenal
Click to expand...

Ok except for these clubs listed with Juniors. Out of these teams you suggest, All Blacks and Avenel have U/18's in OKFL & KDFL, Dookie has U/14 and U/17's in PDFLSE. Yea has U/16 in the Seymour comp. So a bit all over the shop.
Yea left KDFL a few years ago to play closer to Melbourne so would not like to go back to a Benalla area League. There is no way Dookie would want to leave a league that has a junior structure in place with thirds and fourths to a league that doesn't.......

If you are right and that Avenel and Longwood are moved by leagues restructure so that the O&K becomes 16 teams,
what you suggest would it be similar to the Picola League model with no relegation system? ie:
South West Division: Bonnie Doon, Swanpool, Tatong, Goorambat, All Blacks, Greta, Avenel, Longwood.
North East Division: Glenrowan, Moyhu, King Valley, North Wang, Milawa, Tarrawingee, Whorouly, Bright.
You could play 3 teams in each division twice and 3 teams three times and everyone has 3 byes, with sometimes 3 teams having a bye in the same round to even it out over 18 rounds.....

Other option could structure it as phantom localized groups, similar to GVFL, rather than have two divisions:
Group 1: Bonnie Doon, Swanpool, Avenel, Longwood
Group 2: Bright, Whorouly, Milawa, Tarrawingee.
Group 3: Greta, Tatong, Goorambat, Benalla All Blacks.
Group 4: North Wang, Moyhu, King Valley, Glenrowan.
Play each other twice in your group at start and end of year and the other 12 teams in the middle for 18 rounds.
 
Tatsean said:
Ok except for these clubs listed with Juniors. Out of these teams you suggest, All Blacks and Avenel have U/18's in OKFL & KDFL, Dookie has U/14 and U/17's in PDFLSE. Yea has U/16 in the Seymour comp. So a bit all over the shop.
Yea left KDFL a few years ago to play closer to Melbourne so would not like to go back to a Benalla area League. There is no way Dookie would want to leave a league that has a junior structure in place with thirds and fourths to a league that doesn't.......

If you are right and that Avenel and Longwood are moved by leagues restructure so that the O&K becomes 16 teams,
what you suggest would it be similar to the Picola League model with no relegation system? ie:
South West Division: Bonnie Doon, Swanpool, Tatong, Goorambat, All Blacks, Greta, Avenel, Longwood.
North East Division: Glenrowan, Moyhu, King Valley, North Wang, Milawa, Tarrawingee, Whorouly, Bright.
You could play 3 teams in each division twice and 3 teams three times and everyone has 3 byes, with sometimes 3 teams having a bye in the same round to even it out over 18 rounds.....

Other option could structure it as phantom localized groups, similar to GVFL, rather than have two divisions:
Group 1: Bonnie Doon, Swanpool, Avenel, Longwood
Group 2: Bright, Whorouly, Milawa, Tarrawingee.
Group 3: Greta, Tatong, Goorambat, Benalla All Blacks.
Group 4: North Wang, Moyhu, King Valley, Glenrowan.
Play each other twice in your group at start and end of year and the other 12 teams in the middle for 18 rounds.
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Where does Violet Town fit into this as they are stuck in the middle? Not that they want to leave the KDFL.
 
jaxbac#13 said:
Where does Violet Town fit into this as they are stuck in the middle? Not that they want to leave the KDFL.
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Not sure Jax, Trooper didn't mention them, so I didn't include them..either....Not my idea but will be interesting what the AFL does with it's leagues...
 
Guys don't go giving youself a brain ache over all of this.... There won't be any splitting up of the league into localised comps, that would be going backwards....The review panel has to look longterm at what is best for the league at ALL levels and how best to overcome the issues that plague the league now not simply the one sided score lines etc....Clubs have to be judged by more than scoreboards or premierships.....We can all speculate but it would probably be a waste of brain power that could be used doing other things...
 
justamug said:
After seeing Glenrowan first hand on Saturday I just wanted to say how impressed I was. They have improved out of sight compared to last year. I'm not sure what the comment above "Glenrowan beat Bonnie Doon against the odds" is in regards to, the lead changed several times during the game and Glenrowan got the win in the end.

As much as Glenrowan have improved and it's great to see, they won't get close to the likes of Milawa. They are a much better side now but still not in the top four imo.
Click to expand...

By the way justa how'd Garry Ablett go ??
 
trooper70 said:
Yep.... Junior league is holding O and K clubs to ransom and successfully allowing some O and K clubs to melt away and die !!! in regards to the 2 divisions at least its something rather than just letting clubs die ..Not sure that a merger between Tatong and Swanpool is ideal ...It could just make one big struggling club.

If there are going to be mergers I reckon it should be done in a way that the long term sustainability of the club needs to be factored in ...Maybe something like this is better ...Assuming a two tier divisional comp isnt constructed ... or another league formed .

Swanpool / Bonnie Doon?
Goorambat / All blacks ?
Greta or King Valley or Glenrowan Tatong ?

Bonnie Doon is an issue for the league...Nothing against them as a club but purely based on geography...

I reckon the following league should be set
Bonnie Doon
Swanpool
Goorambat
Benalla All Blacks
Tatong
Longwood
dookie
Yea or Avenal
Click to expand...

Echuca Moama has a population of 18,000, which supports 3 clubs after East and South merged some years back. There was not enough players in the district to support 4 clubs.

Benalla district population is 13,000. We are kidding ourselves if we believe 5 clubs can be sustained - there is simply not the 300 players in the district needed to fill 10 adult squads, let alone the sponsorship $ needed these days. Either the Benalla district clubs merge or drop out altogether. I know what I would prefer.
 
skippy1 said:
Echuca Moama has a population of 18,000, which supports 3 clubs after East and South merged some years back. There was not enough players in the district to support 4 clubs.

Benalla district population is 13,000. We are kidding ourselves if we believe 5 clubs can be sustained - there is simply not the 300 players in the district needed to fill 10 adult squads, let alone the sponsorship $ needed these days. Either the Benalla district clubs merge or drop out altogether. I know what I would prefer.
Click to expand...
You may not be quite accurate with your player numbers of Benalla against Echuca, as Echuca/Moama's 3 sides are in the number 1 and 11 ranked major leagues in the state. So where do all the players that aren't up to Murray League standard play? They have to be playing somewhere..... Benalla only has 1 major league side, the rest are all local minor league clubs in the Ovens and King league. Echuca doesn't have any minor league clubs but there would have to be quite a few people form Echuca/Moama that play in the closest minor leagues - Loddon, Heathcote, Picola or Kyabram.
 
Tatsean said:
You may not be quite accurate with your player numbers of Benalla against Echuca, as Echuca/Moama's 3 sides are in the number 1 and 11 ranked major leagues in the state. So where do all the players that aren't up to Murray League standard play? They have to be playing somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are a number of players in Echuca/Moama that aren't up to Murray League senior standard. They mostly play in the reserves.
 

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