thylacine60
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be guaranteed a game at a club with only 22 to choose from...........
Opinion Paddy Dow, can you see a pathway for him to break into our best 22 or are we resigned to losing him?
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It seems you are confident. While I agree that Kennedy has exceeded expectations he is not the same player he was in the first few rounds. His explosiveness and lateral movement has deteriorated. I don’t quite believe we have room for both.
I appreciate what he brings to the team and my original question to this thread was a hypothetical based on the ‘eye test’ but have since dug up the season averages for each player
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There are a few interesting takeaways here.
(I wish the vfl had more stats)
Dow has more disposals. (Vfl does not have disposal efficiency darn it.)
Dow has 50% more clearances than Kennedy.
(While being tagged most games)
Dow has a goal a game so Kennedy may not be better forward?
Tackles are similar which is a good indication of similar effort.
Kennedy is a really good mark, but the glaring difference here could also be due to the lower disposal efficiency in the vfl
This is not a post suggesting that we need to drop Kennedy right NOW. But to indicate that my hypothesis was not quite as absurd as you have suggested.
While you may say that the vfl is not a real comp it is the comp Dow is playing in so it is what it is. He’s also getting those numbers with little to no support. Everyone saw what happened to Kennedy without Cripps in the side against the suns.
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He's probably pretty close to getting a game if Hewett is going to miss a bit of footy. In saying that he probably should ask to be played on the wing or in defence. Not sure his kicking suggests that he's suited to those positions, he's definitely an inside midfielder first but if he proves he can play other roles well then that gets him a lot closer to breaking into this team.
He's got really good ball handling skills, pace and evasive skills. Surely that can be used in other parts of the ground.
He's got really good ball handling skills, pace and evasive skills. Surely that can be used in other parts of the ground.
JustaBattler
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Voss had some interesting things to say about Dow today towards the end of his presser on teh Carlton website.
Has some work to do, defensively
Gethelred
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I'd also listen to the audio (it's essentially the last minute of it is about Dow) for a little bit more.
It's interesting. Throughout that interview he's very firm on selection integrity and players pushing their cases. It's not enough just to be in good form, you've got to take the position from the player in front of you; we've also seen him ring the changes between games if a player isn't pulling their weight, LOB out for Newnes and Setterfield out for LOB, Cottrell in and out, Carroll in.
There's not just your form, it's your form relative to the player you're competing with.
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Is that interesting? With respect it was qualified fence sitting.
I think he will leave at the end of the season myself.
It's a shame but best for both parties. We won't get much compo for him either, but that's footy.
Probably joins his Brother at Richmond for a similar pick we got for SPs
It's a shame but best for both parties. We won't get much compo for him either, but that's footy.
Probably joins his Brother at Richmond for a similar pick we got for SPs
I'd also listen to the audio (it's essentially the last minute of it is about Dow) for a little bit more.
It's interesting. Throughout that interview he's very firm on selection integrity and players pushing their cases. It's not enough just to be in good form, you've got to take the position from the player in front of you; we've also seen him ring the changes between games if a player isn't pulling their weight, LOB out for Newnes and Setterfield out for LOB, Cottrell in and out, Carroll in.
There's not just your form, it's your form relative to the player you're competing with.
Its been pretty clear all year that Voss isnt just going to move magnets about to fit players in the team.
I also dont think he sees Walsh and Cerra playing on the wing particularily with the way he is using wingers. Very unlikely he puts one or both there to accomodate Dow no matter how many times posters suggest it.
On this basis think it will be pretty hard for Dow to break into the team short term no matter how he plays.
Metalcrusher
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Completely dependent on injuries and yet a 19yo Carroll gets his second game .. some people just fail to read between the lines.
Dow just does not have enough strings to his bow period.
It is interesting actually, because press guy asked about Paddy Dow in terms does he need to find a spot somewhere else in team apart from as midfielders.
Voss, essentially said they want to use him best to his strength and that as midfielder.
"He’s got some really clear strengths through the midfield for us so we want to keep promoting that."
So that a pretty clear indication they see him as a pure midfielder and not intending to try to turn him into something he is not. A forward flanker or back flanker type is not for him. Which great to hear they not ****ing around with him. His spot is in the engine room and that is his pathway into the senior team. Basically it says to get in ahead of a Cerra, Kennedy or Hewett type which have been in form themselves so for now it the magoos.
I suspect he will break into the team by end of this month. It will either be through injuries or if he just playing too well cannot keep him out and someone like Cerra or Walsh plays more wing so Dow has the inside mid burst spot that is where he best used.
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I think Voss alluded to that when he said "we know where his strengths lie".
The problem for Dow is if he comes in as the 5th mid we essentially have to put one of our 4 better mids to a wing/flank so he can primarily play onball. Compare that to Carroll who can mainly play on a flank/wing then rotate through the middle. Much better for our structure.
Exactly!
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I guess I had already had that as a base assumption given the way teams have been picked so far this year but it is nice to hear it being validated.
Milshouse
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For me the question is do we need dow in the side, going forward, our midfield is probably our strongest position, and relatively young, with cuningham, philp, carroll, kemp, stocker, all waiting for there turn too, if hes continues to play good footy id look to trade if the price was right, go in this year with 3 picks under 30, stock up on talls and maybe a winger/balanced mid
My 2c
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Watching him last night it seems clear to me his issue is mental/footy IQ related. Has the physical ability and the footy skills but he doesn’t know to do some things like when to bump an opponent (legally) to create and advantage for himself or his teammates mate. Often he gets bumped away too easily but not because he isn’t strong enough but because his oppo is smarter.
If Dow improves in this area I think we’d be mad to trade him.
If Dow improves in this area I think we’d be mad to trade him.
I'm with Spry. What Dow is putting up is with a VFL midfield and third ruck around him. And Kennedy is getting the numbers you would expect in a top 4/8 AFL side but his form hasn't really been noteworthy since round 3, including as a forward option and goal kicker. If anything, he looks too comfortable and possibly not fit enough in some games.
It's one thing to have a selection integrity policy but it's not set, forget and hope injuries mean you never have to make a decision. You need to experiment and learn things at the margins in the first half of the season and have a settled side on the back half.
Voss is certainly not reactive at the selection table though, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that if/when a change happens it'll be considered and Dow will get the same treatment once he's in the team.
It's one thing to have a selection integrity policy but it's not set, forget and hope injuries mean you never have to make a decision. You need to experiment and learn things at the margins in the first half of the season and have a settled side on the back half.
Voss is certainly not reactive at the selection table though, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that if/when a change happens it'll be considered and Dow will get the same treatment once he's in the team.
thylacine60
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Couldn't disagree more. I wrote this because you are a quality poster deserving more than the moronic red thumb.
AceAndy
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He has been in the system for five years so i imagine it is unlikely he will rapidly improve.
I would be surprised if he is on our list next season.
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I think our whole list has rapidly improved under Voss though. Surely would be the same for Dow?
AceAndy
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He may well have improved but is behind Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett and Kennedy for a run in the mid-field.
His chance is one of the midfield pushes out to a wing to give him a run. I am not sure that is likely to happen under Voss.
He has improved but he’s a bit of a one-trick pony.
In the old days you’d wait your chance but doubt he’ll stick around even if the club thinks he is good insurance should one of our first-choice mids go down.
I like him and think he might make it another club. Wonder what he’d be worth on the open market?
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