Autopsy Pies go down to Hawks 101-67

[TradeDraft]

The backwards sideways crap is still alive and well, would there be any danger of forward momentum and players positioned in positive attacking spots?
It is not even worth going into the semantics and breakdown of what is the wrong and how it can possibly be improved because we are watching a team performing the same as it has done under this fraud of a coach for how long now? Same suspects putting their hand up, same ones bobbing in and out of the game, and same disappointing group of 5 or 6 that go missing in bad results. I hope Pendles game was a one off because he looks like he's lost more than a yard of pace and he never was the quickest bloke.

When we played our Worst Last Season we where Moving the Ball Slowly and Backwards and Sideways. When we looked good we took the Game On and we won Games playing like that.

But for some Reason our Coach wants to play the Shit Game Plan that would never win a game instead of the 1 that at least gives us a Chance of Winning

 

[76woodenspooners]

So I'd have to say it is Nathan's fault. Why move the kid back in the first place when he is clearly a forward?

He played TAC Cup at CHB ...

... maybe we threw him forward because we were short of tall forwards?

... maybe we should have been developing him as a backline player all along?

 

[soreplums]

When Hawthorn won a free kick or mark in our backline, they had four players keeping a line like in Rugby league and then another four doing the same 20-30 metres ahead. As soon as they had the ball the first line would spread, receive the ball on a switch and the line ahead would then be ready to receive the next kick or run to receive an overlap handball. They moved it well out of our backline and set up some good attack.

We were rubbish last night. Skill level and intensity were the difference. We gifted them goals through silly mistakes. 3 goals 9 to 5.4 in the second half. No all is lost. Can’t think of another game where our better players were so insignificant and had zero impact.

 

[BPikkers]

i agree entirely but i had a look today also they were at full strength we had i believe maybe 4 or 5 out of our best side..

Yes spot on. Add DeGoey, Wells, Elliot and Fas and the result may have been entirely different.

 

[HappyRed]

I had my head ripped off for suggesting we put Pendlebury on the trade table.. we'd have had 2 top 10 draft picks for it.

Reid is finished. Another trade that should have happened.

We'd be in a better position now.

For those who use the word 'respect'.. just sheep.. I bet you say it.. but never feel it in your gut. Why so many are quick to say 'no way.. it's disrespectful'.. ok well bye bye 2 top 10 picks.. for what.. playing a veteran and have him sit on a car so we can wave him good-bye.

Progressive modern day thinking.. cut the respect crap.

I have never in my life felt any respect for a player.. 'like love hate'.. yes.

I couldn't agree more. We need to trade him now whilst we can get value and start the "legitimate" rebuilding process. I went through the list last night and the only players I was happy with keeping were as follows. (I can be convinced to change my mind on some players)\

Daniel Wells
Brodie Grundy
Jamie Elliot
Sam Murray
Travis Varcoe
Brown Brothers
Levi Greenwood
Steele Sidebottom
Jack Crisp
Daicos
Nathan Murray
Will Hoskin Elliot
Jaidyn Stephenson
Jeremy Howe

The rest I want traded or delisted. Could be convinced to keep Darcy Moore but not as our #1 option in ANY key position. I think he needs to be second fiddle or even third. Honestly. Let's just start again.

Now let the hate come..^_^

 

[Collingwoodity]

We may also be 3-3, or even 4-2. We may have played our only shocker for the year.

You, Baltimore Jack and Saintly Viewed are amazing people.

There, in the murky waters of reality, only do you three find hope when it’s apparent to all else that all is lost.





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[Collingwoodity]

I went to sleep pissed off at Collingwood. I woke up embarrassed to be an Australian Cricket supporter.

They may break my heart again and again. But I will never be embarrassed to be a Collingwood supporter.

Cricket is a dying sport. Won’t survive beyond the century in its current form and popularity.


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[Collingwoodity]

History never repeats...

7 repeated years of mediocrity says otherwise.


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[regpies]

I stand corrected here, but I can’t recall a recent game in the last few years where we have been 3 to 5 goals down and we’ve come back to win.
We tend do the opposite in recent years, when we’ve built up a 3-5 goal lead over a long period of game time (3 quarters) we let teams erode that within10 minutes.

Hawks game last year. We were about 30-40pts down at the end of the 1st qtr.

We played that 1st qtr exactly like we did on Saturday, slow ball movement trying to chip the ball through Hawks zone which failed. Then we all of a sudden moved the ball quick and took the game on and we won.

I can’t believe we learned absolutely nothing from that game.

 

[swoop42]

When Hawthorn won a free kick or mark in our backline, they had four players keeping a line like in Rugby league and then another four doing the same 20-30 metres ahead. As soon as they had the ball the first line would spread, receive the ball on a switch and the line ahead would then be ready to receive the next kick or run to receive an overlap handball. They moved it well out of our backline and set up some good attack.

We were rubbish last night. Skill level and intensity were the difference. We gifted them goals through silly mistakes. 3 goals 9 to 5.4 in the second half. No all is lost. Can’t think of another game where our better players were so insignificant and had zero impact.

This is something I've noticed with the Swans also time and again and it very much resembles the play you expect in a game of rugby.

The problem we have compared to these two sides when it comes to creating overlap and run is our spacing.

It is often to close together and we end up only delivering the ball a short distance or to a player not forward of the play enough and to often the player receiving the ball is under immediate pressure because of it.

The hawks and swans have nailed the art of the overlap and it's something we need to learn from.

 

[regpies]

When Hawthorn won a free kick or mark in our backline, they had four players keeping a line like in Rugby league and then another four doing the same 20-30 metres ahead. As soon as they had the ball the first line would spread, receive the ball on a switch and the line ahead would then be ready to receive the next kick or run to receive an overlap handball. They moved it well out of our backline and set up some good attack.

What you describe is a team with a game plan that is well drilled and implemented.

That is not us.

 

[Roverjg]

Article in Tomorrow's Age by Michael Gleeson

One game in, just one game, but it all felt so familiar. It felt like the same old Collingwood.
One game is not enough to draw a definitive conclusion but this felt like 101 games, not just the first of a new season. Their hope is that it was just a bad first-up game, but the one bad game had a lot of similar themes.

Jamie Elliott and Daniel Wells were not fit enough for the first game. Again. Jordan De Goey was suspended by the club and missing the first game. Again.
These things were true before the game. These things were true in the game: still they have too few players who can kick well. Still they have too few players with leg speed. Still there is no small crumbing pressure forward. Still they look impotent forward with Elliott out. Still they are unable to lock down on small forwards (Luke Breust enjoys playing Collingwood).

True, the arrival of Sam Murray on Saturday night offered one of the few bright notes for Collingwood, suggesting that they might have finally found one good small running defender, but against a Hawthorn forward line of Cyril, Breust, Puopolo and Impey the Magpies needed more than one Sam Murray. Collingwood’s last-round win last year now already feels like a dead cat bounce. That was the game that set up the idea that Mason Cox and Brodie Grundy could play in the same set up with Cox the target forward.

On Saturday night he was a target only for his own club’s fans. Cox played a terrible game. Initially he couldn’t hold marks amid a clatter of bodies, then he couldn’t hold marks when he was competing against himself. Buckley might be saved a decision on him by the high bump that could see him resting next week.

The problem Collingwood has is that Cox is structurally important to them, yet he is a player of uncertain ability and future. He remains a project player but one who is playing in one of their most critical positions in a side that has struggled in attack. Collingwood play a game that looks to deliver the ball into attack long and high, relying on Cox to mark it or force a free kick from panicky defenders chopping or holding on. Neither thing happened – Cox didn’t mark and Hawthorn didn’t panic. Ben Reid was mobile and threatening, but it was not enough to be damaging. Ben Crocker looked surprisingly good, but now he too is injured. The forward set-up to kick long to talls is remarkable for the fact that they have no genuine crumbing forward in the team to gather the spilt ball. Callum Brown is the most obvious candidate to develop into that role. Tim Broomhead is another who should be used exclusively there and cultivated to do the job.

Collingwood had their club review last year and made a host of low-profile changes and a couple of high profile ones. They got rid of the CEO and they kept the coach. Changes will take time to filter through, but first impressions are Collingwood presents as they did last year, as a team neither bad enough nor good enough to give hope. They looked desperately mediocre. The changes they made last year acknowledged that the problems were many and varied and not limited to coaching – the list for instance was over-rated. Still they have too many ordinary players and on Saturday even their better ones were poor.

Adam Treloar was traded for two first-round draft picks – both of them at seven. If he arrived and played like Josh Kelly he would be worth it, but he hasn’t.

Compare what Hawthorn did instead. They only needed pick 14 to get Tom Mitchell. In the last two games, Mitchell has had more than 100 possessions against Collingwood. This time there was no doubting Mitchell’s record number of touches hurt Collingwood.

For a side that expedited list changes and theoretically bottomed out, they are suffering acutely from the fact when they invested heavily in the draft they came up empty-handed. The Matt Scharenberg, Nathan Freeman year is a disaster that is still being felt. Yes, they used a pick from Freeman to bring in James Aish, but Aish has yet to perform as a top 10 quality player. When you invest in top ten talent you need a better return than Collingwood got.
Taylor Adams was brought in when they ushered Heath Shaw out. Adams is tough but not defensive enough, and he turns the ball over too often.

It is only round one, but it does not feel like a one-game sample, it feels like deja vu. And with a road ahead that reads GWS, Carlton, Adelaide away, Essendon and Richmond it could be a grim feel by round six.

 

[HFF]

It's so painful.
Even these articles are so "touchy-touchy" and "nice".

Nobody has the balls to come out and go hard on our club in the media.

It's why we don't see the change we so desperately crave.

Unfortunately, it's a job that will be left to our supporter base.
There's only one place the club will notice and start to take action- the balance sheet.

 

[mike123]

Commented at the time. The lack of composure was staggering. Absolute blind panic!

The thing was he had about three handball options to the right of him the first time.

If I was one of the three running past I'd be livid.

 

[soreplums]

I can’t believe that they are only now recognising the lack of balance in our list. It’s been obvious for about four years.

 

[30yearpie]

Wait for it. Blair in. Missed opportunities, missed tackles, generally just missing to follow. Will do one good thing when No one’s paying attention and get picked again against the obvious. All the rest of the rinse and repeat will go on around it. Moore will eventually go forward the same way Reid stayed back all last year, somehow we will beat Geelong, not sure how yet because not sure Greenwood will be ready by then. We will be 1 and 7 or 2 and 8 something like that like last year. But the club will continue to try to ram merchandise down our throats at ridiculous prices and Buckley will be coach and Eddie will be protected. Oh man it’s going to be a long year.


I did have a wonder though about what it might be like on the other side post Buckley... Harvey, Sanderson, Boyd, Rivers, somebody somebody else. Who would be caretaker coach?

For 5 years I've been saying Harvey is the cancer at Collingwood. Wonderful bloke but too quiet and has no results to stand on. Was in charge of mids for two years and we struggled. What about a strong body in the midfield like Wills. Last two years he has taken nearly all year to get a game and has played really strongly. Pendles, sides and the front runner are two weak to get the ball out, We need a strong body to do that and stick with him, not a game here and there. Kirby would have been valuable last night, crumbing and giving the fwds an xfactor, but no we'll go back to Blair and Broomehead again and get pushed off the ball too easily.

 

[greening22]

Two guys sitting behind me last night were whining about Buckley the coach. They got sucked into the rhetoric, and it was pathetic. I'm trying to watch the game, keeping the rain off me, while these idiots were busy sulking and condemning the coach. I felt like throwing them over the balcony. Here's the deal... it's gonna be an ugly start to the season because not til Anzac Day will the Pies be back to full strength, or the nearest to full strength you can expect as a Pies fan, with the return of De Goey, Wells & Greenwood to the midfield, and Fasolo & Elliot to the forward line. Until then, reserve your judgement. Round 1 always throws up bizarre performances, and the Pies were the epitome of that. Has Cox ever played with a wet ball before? Maybe not. I really don't think Cox has ever played with wet balls. They should put a hose on him at training. It's definitely incumbent on Cox to start practising with shiny wet balls. It's a rude awakening. Not a good time to play his worst game. He's mature enough to bounce back. Not till I saw the dew on the grass as I walked through the car park after the game did I realize why the players were fumbling all night. I hate night football. To think they want a night grand final. Good lord. Messing with a hundred years a tradition, just so it looks pretty on American televisions. Who gives a flying **** about the international audience? Oh yeah, Gil does. The only time Gil doesn't think about money is when he's asleep. And when he's asleep, well, you can guess what he dreams about. Not happy that the Pies were scheduled their bogey side for round 1 (only 1 win against the Hawks since 2011), and then GWS in round 2. Is it just me, or does the AFL delight in our downfall. That's it. That's my catalog of excuses. Now a word about the music last night. Queen One Vision. Stones Gimme Shelter. Mondos No Time. And of course acadaca. It amuses me that they chose songs that are lyrically relevant. Do these people even know who they're dealing with. The MCG crowd finds kiss-cam amusing. They're hardly cerebral enough to notice that the songs are lyrically relevant. Don't even bother. Here's a good play list for next week:

'What Is This Shit' by Archie Bell & The Drells
'I Can't Believe What I'm Seeing' by Grand Funk Railroad
'Be Glad You're Here Instead Of Watching 7' by Pink Floyd
'He Wasn't In The Protected Zone' by The Allman Brothers
'The Rules Committee Are A Bunch Of Has-Beens' by The Grateful Dead
'Katie Is Taking Gil To The Human Rights Commission And So Should You' by Joan Baez
'These Umpires Are ******' by Lynyrd Skynyrd
'Good Call Darc - Thanks Lingy' by All-Star Group featuring Boy George, Jimmy Somerville, Marc Almond, Holly Johnson, Rob Halford, Adam Lambert, Ricky Martin and The Village People
'ACDC Every Week Isn't At All Boring - I'm Just Preserving Their Legacy' by Tony Schibeci

What crap! So our salvation in 2018 lies in the following players:

De Goey: Still unproven as he goes into his 4th year of senior football
Wells: a 34 year old who is continually injury-prone and never gets on the park and whose best days are well and truly behind him.
Fasolo: a half-forward who does not chase and hardly ever lays a tackle in 8 years of senior football. In fact I would have put him up for trading at the end of 2017.
Greenwood: a 29 year old whose best role is when he tags. However has no creative skills and very rarely breaks the lines.
Elliot: yes; a good player who is also continually injury-prone!

I think that a more appropriate song selection would be: "It's all over now baby blue (or should I say Bucks)".

By the way Round 1 very rarely throws up unpredictable results for Collingwood under Buckley:

2012: 22 point defeat by Hawthorn at the MCG.
2014: 70 point defeat by Fremantle at Docklands
2016: 80 point defeat by Sydney in Sydney.
2017: 14 point defeat by the Bulldogs at the MCG.
2018: 34 point defeat by Hawthorn at the MCG.

I have left out 2015 as we just managed to hang on to defeat a bottom 4 Brisbane team (from 2014) by 12 points at Brisbane.
As for 2013 we beat North Melbourne by 16 points at Docklands when we had a cery good tean inherited by Buckley from Malthouse.
It is a pity that you were not sitting near me as I started commenting upon Buckley's deficiencies as a coach well into the 2nd quarter.
The sooner that he is gone, the better!

 

[Kappa]

He played TAC Cup at CHB ...

... maybe we threw him forward because we were short of tall forwards?

... maybe we should have been developing him as a backline player all along?

Agreed, Bucks never makes mistakes.

 

[Somebody]

You'll either be disappointed or given hope only to be disappointed further down the track. No point in holding any hope.

Thanks for the advise Marvin.

 

[ant22]

For 5 years I've been saying Harvey is the cancer at Collingwood. Wonderful bloke but too quiet and has no results to stand on. Was in charge of mids for two years and we struggled. What about a strong body in the midfield like Wills. Last two years he has taken nearly all year to get a game and has played really strongly. Pendles, sides and the front runner are two weak to get the ball out, We need a strong body to do that and stick with him, not a game here and there. Kirby would have been valuable last night, crumbing and giving the fwds an xfactor, but no we'll go back to Blair and Broomehead again and get pushed off the ball too easily.

Harvey is still there because he gets along with bucks and doesn’t challenge him. We have had a lot of assistant coaches in bucks time that have come and gone yet the results stay the same. I’m guessing Harvey is not the issue.

 

[Somebody]

So Roos reckons we should be filthy, guess what Paul we are and have been for a f***** long time and for good f***** reason. You'd be pissed too if you barracked for Collingwood.

Maybe it's Greenwood we miss most of all! esp for that game.

 

[Gone Critical]

For 5 years I've been saying Harvey is the cancer at Collingwood. Wonderful bloke but too quiet and has no results to stand on. Was in charge of mids for two years and we struggled. What about a strong body in the midfield like Wills. Last two years he has taken nearly all year to get a game and has played really strongly. Pendles, sides and the front runner are two weak to get the ball out, We need a strong body to do that and stick with him, not a game here and there. Kirby would have been valuable last night, crumbing and giving the fwds an xfactor, but no we'll go back to Blair and Broomehead again and get pushed off the ball too easily.

Not sure you are watching. Wills has barely played VFL since 2016 due to repeated injury. Blair and Broomhead didn't play on Saturday

 

[Harambe Pie]

He played TAC Cup at CHB ...

... maybe we threw him forward because we were short of tall forwards?

... maybe we should have been developing him as a backline player all along?

I think we've been short of key position players for the length of Darcy's tenure at the club and with the exception of his recruitment, we appear to have avoided drafting/recruiting any other talls in that period.

Regardless, I can't begin to understand how you can move a player from a position when they're showing promise and growth. Particularly when you have no viable replacement in mind.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I did have a wonder though about what it might be like on the other side post Buckley... Harvey, Sanderson, Boyd, Rivers, somebody somebody else. Who would be caretaker coach?

Either Sanderson or Harvey.

Harvey probably deserves it due to tenure at the club but Sanderson does have AFL head coaching experience which might be looked upon more favourably.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I think the most damning stat from last Saturday night was turnovers. We had 89 and Hawthron had the same with 89, yet we lose by 34 points.
The only 2 teams that had more turnovers than us was the Tsunami game(NM vs GCS).

It points to our lack of defensive structure, and ability to slow down the play when we lose the ball. It also shows that we lack the creativity, decisiveness and structure when we do cause turnover. Also, indicates how well the opposition is drilled.

Perfect example: We caused a turnover on the wing and Sidebottom has no one to kick the ball too because Cox was lumbering down the middle of the ground. He doesn’t have the aerobic capacity to run towards goal when necessary.
Sidebottom kicks the ball backwards. Hawthron pressure. Turnover. Goal.