Player in legal action against the AFL and Essendon - Hal Hunter

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Echols said:
Are you trying to make a comparison to what took place at Essendon?

Because for starters, the Doc needs to be in the smoko room taking a break while you get your dose of tryptonal from a guy with no medical qualifications whatsoever.

Now we are getting a little more comparable. Let's keep going.

You then need to return to this guy for a period of weeks, telling your boss in the meantime just how bloody great you feel, but knowing that this course of meds is like nothing you've ever had.

You will of course need to keep your conscious clear of exactly why you need so many injections to combat your supposed ailment, although you are aware that the guy giving you the jabs is in constant contact with your place of employment and they're pretty sure you shouldnt be talking to anyone about the tryptonal. So that's that.

And all of these things happen only weeks after the local Worksafe officer had a formal visit with your workplace reminding them that any and all treatment of employees was to be run through them at all times.

But of course, you just keep lining up for the tryptonal, report the benefits and hope that the boss is spot on when he tells you that "she'll be right, mate. We got this. ".


So what are you guilty of?

Well, at the very least, stupidity.
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Echols said:
Are you trying to make a comparison to what took place at Essendon?

Because for starters, the Doc needs to be in the smoko room taking a break while you get your dose of tryptonal from a guy with no medical qualifications whatsoever.

Now we are getting a little more comparable. Let's keep going.

You then need to return to this guy for a period of weeks, telling your boss in the meantime just how bloody great you feel, but knowing that this course of meds is like nothing you've ever had.

You will of course need to keep your conscious clear of exactly why you need so many injections to combat your supposed ailment, although you are aware that the guy giving you the jabs is in constant contact with your place of employment and they're pretty sure you shouldnt be talking to anyone about the tryptonal. So that's that.

And all of these things happen only weeks after the local Worksafe officer had a formal visit with your workplace reminding them that any and all treatment of employees was to be run through them at all times.

But of course, you just keep lining up for the tryptonal, report the benefits and hope that the boss is spot on when he tells you that "she'll be right, mate. We got this. ".


So what are you guilty of?

Well, at the very least, stupidity.
Click to expand...
1/Im just saying what a doctor tells you you normally believe --don't you?--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk
full stop in my book. When was the last time you didn't take what the doctor told you to?
2/nurses give medication to clients, carers give medication to clients, so do appointed staff at sporting clubs. where the doctor is doesn't matter. he could be taking a s#%$@T, still doesn't matter.
3/ meds improve all the time-- isn't it the aim to get the best of what you can, whats available. lest hope they do improve yes?
4/ of course you have a clear conscience you took in good faith what the doctor gave you-- why didn't you have a clear conscience the last time you took medicine the doctor offered you?
5/ the workplace-- what the authority of the workplace? isn't that authority the doctor?
6/ well of course you do-- why wouldn't you-- you trust your doctor don't you?
7/your obviously guilty of nothing. Cheers mate--
 
Echols a quick glance and over to you






whatsthego said:
1/Im just saying what a doctor tells you you normally believe --don't you?--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk
full stop in my book. When was the last time you didn't take what the doctor told you to?
2/nurses give medication to clients, carers give medication to clients, so do appointed staff at sporting clubs. where the doctor is doesn't matter. he could be taking a s#%$@T, still doesn't matter.
3/ meds improve all the time-- isn't it the aim to get the best of what you can, whats available. lest hope they do improve yes?
4/ of course you have a clear conscience you took in good faith what the doctor gave you-- why didn't you have a clear conscience the last time you took medicine the doctor offered you?
5/ the workplace-- what the authority of the workplace? isn't that authority the doctor?
6/ well of course you do-- why wouldn't you-- you trust your doctor don't you?
7/your obviously guilty of nothing. Cheers mate--
Click to expand...
 
whatsthego said:
1/Im just saying what a doctor tells you you normally believe --don't you?--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk
full stop in my book. When was the last time you didn't take what the doctor told you to?
2/nurses give medication to clients, carers give medication to clients, so do appointed staff at sporting clubs. where the doctor is doesn't matter. he could be taking a s#%$@T, still doesn't matter.
3/ meds improve all the time-- isn't it the aim to get the best of what you can, whats available. lest hope they do improve yes?
4/ of course you have a clear conscience you took in good faith what the doctor gave you-- why didn't you have a clear conscience the last time you took medicine the doctor offered you?
5/ the workplace-- what the authority of the workplace? isn't that authority the doctor?
6/ well of course you do-- why wouldn't you-- you trust your doctor don't you?
7/your obviously guilty of nothing. Cheers mate--
Click to expand...
You are missing the point.

Dank is not a Doctor. He's not even a pharmacist.

You're making an argument that has already been shouted down as pure negligence on the part of the club and players over 24 months ago.

The fact is the players knew they were on the edge of what was legal, and when they started reporting the benefits and query that it was safe, they instead went to the coach and club instead of ASADA.

Forget making comparisons about going up the doc and getting a flu shot, this is elite level sport, looking for advantages. The players knew that these injections were all a part of trying to get big and strong. They were willfully ignorant of what exactly they were undertaking and didn't follow hhe guidelines that their and every other sports athletes are told to abide by.
 
B Tron said:
Seems like you didn't play the game Lance.

Try again.

I'll give you a hint.

The video shows a few types of footwear, one if which, while worn on a foot, is not quite the same as the others.

The pictures show intergenerational 'hate' in action. The fun part for you is picking the one that is not quite like the other, the one that does not end in death and mayhem. Its really not that hard. I'll give you a hint. It is the last one.

You want to know why? Because it is not really the same kind of intergenerational hate that fuels death and destruction, the hate you mentioned in the same sentence as a North-Essendon hatred by a specific poster. You accuse me of being too literal yet can't distinguish between these two completely different 'hates'?

I give you much more credit than that Lance. Your point was poor and your defence of it poorer.
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So where would you put English football hooligans then? There's was some death and destruction involved. Thankfully Australians never got that bad.
 

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Echols said:
You are missing the point.

Dank is not a Doctor. He's not even a pharmacist.

You're making an argument that has already been shouted down as pure negligence on the part of the club and players over 24 months ago.

The fact is the players knew they were on the edge of what was legal, and when they started reporting the benefits and query that it was safe, they instead went to the coach and club instead of ASADA.

Forget making comparisons about going up the doc and getting a flu shot, this is elite level sport, looking for advantages. The players knew that these injections were all a part of trying to get big and strong. They were willfully ignorant of what exactly they were undertaking and didn't follow hhe guidelines that their and every other sports athletes are told to abide by.
Click to expand...

gee you make some good pints there-- hows these for answers?
Dank is a biochemist/sports scientist-- same amount of college time-- but fair enough-- OK he wasn't a doctor-- i didn't even know that-- still they trusted him, as a person-as a professional - who was highly qualified
the fact they went to the club is just what they thought was right to do-- maybe -- i don't know -- what was in their minds and hearts i'm not going to get into a conspiracy theory about-- if they say that's what they thought they should do as the authority/management then i believe them. i'm not going to start imagining bad, like others, vested in imagination or attack. on the edge isn't over the edge, thats why they asked the club for confirmation--thinking that's what they should do if they had any doubts-- did they-- one did apparently-- did they know their responsibility--i guess that would have to be asked of them outside of what you say they were told anyway--were they (willfull) that's a big statement , could even be libelous--were they ignorant, maybe, not a crime.
comparisons--elite level sport will always look for advantages nothing new or malicious there--so getting big and strong is why they all take supplements, nothing there either--.
 
whatsthego said:
gee you make some good pints there-- hows these for answers?
Dank is a biochemist/sports scientist-- same amount of college time-- but fair enough-- OK he wasn't a doctor-- i didn't even know that-- still they trusted him, as a person-as a professional - who was highly qualified
the fact they went to the club is just what they thought was right to do-- maybe -- i don't know -- what was in their minds and hearts i'm not going to get into a conspiracy theory about-- if they say that's what they thought they should do as the authority/management then i believe them. i'm not going to start imagining bad, like others, vested in imagination or attack. on the edge isn't over the edge, thats why they asked the club for confirmation--thinking that's what they should do if they had any doubts-- did they-- one did apparently-- did they know their responsibility--i guess that would have to be asked of them outside of what you say they were told anyway--were they (willfull) that's a big statement , could even be libelous--were they ignorant, maybe, not a crime.
comparisons--elite level sport will always look for advantages nothing new or malicious there--so getting big and strong is why they all take supplements, nothing there either--.
Click to expand...

Are you serious, Bigger Faster Stronger, over a pre season like we have never seen.
 
whatsthego said:
gee you make some good pints there-- hows these for answers?
Dank is a biochemist/sports scientist-- same amount of college time-- but fair enough-- OK he wasn't a doctor-- i didn't even know that-- still they trusted him, as a person-as a professional - who was highly qualified
the fact they went to the club is just what they thought was right to do-- maybe -- i don't know -- what was in their minds and hearts i'm not going to get into a conspiracy theory about-- if they say that's what they thought they should do as the authority/management then i believe them. i'm not going to start imagining bad, like others, vested in imagination or attack. on the edge isn't over the edge, thats why they asked the club for confirmation--thinking that's what they should do if they had any doubts-- did they-- one did apparently-- did they know their responsibility--i guess that would have to be asked of them outside of what you say they were told anyway--were they (willfull) that's a big statement , could even be libelous--were they ignorant, maybe, not a crime.
comparisons--elite level sport will always look for advantages nothing new or malicious there--so getting big and strong is why they all take supplements, nothing there either--.
Click to expand...
All AFL players are aware that they are responsible for what enters their body. They have this drilled into them every year. They are given hotlines to call if they have any queries.

Essendon players knew that the program was on the edge of what was legal and when their conscience got the better of them and they were concerned that it was safe they neglected to follow the correct process and instead kept it all internal, asking only those employed at the club.

They stuffed up.
 
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whatsthego said:
Dank is a biochemist/sports scientist-- same amount of college time
Click to expand...

He has no qualifications as a Sports Scientist, and would not even be eligible for accreditation by the peak body for sports scientists. The time he has spent studying has little to do with anything, but he would have been lucky to have spent half the time in training that a qualified doctor would have.

Further ... he has received no training at all in ethics, and is in no way governed by the ethical codes that all Doctors are duty-bound to adhere to, and which, as you repeatedly point out, give you confidence in what your doctor tells you.

The points you keep bringing up are either incorrect or irrelevant.
 
bing181 said:
But not in WADA's book. Or the book of the AFL drugs code, which all players sign up to.
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i doubt wadas or the afls book would say anything about the conscience of someone who believes and trusts the people they believe in or trust, and what sits right in their hearts or minds, the right and wrong of their belief.
 
bing181 said:
He has no qualifications as a Sports Scientist, and would not even be eligible for accreditation by the peak body for sports scientists. The time he has spent studying has little to do with anything, but he would have been lucky to have spent half the time in training that a qualified doctor would have.

Further ... he has received no training at all in ethics, and is in no way governed by the ethical codes that all Doctors are duty-bound to adhere to, and which, as you repeatedly point out, give you confidence in what your doctor tells you.

The points you keep bringing up are either incorrect or irrelevant.
Click to expand...
he is a fully qualified sports scientist and biochemist--wikipedia-- its not what his governed by, that has anything to do with the trust these players placed in him though does it.
 
Echols said:
All AFL players are aware that they are responsible for what enters their body. They have this drilled into them every year. They are given hotlines to call if they have any queries.

Essendon players knew that the program was on the edge of what was legal and when their conscience got the better of them and they were concerned that it was safe they neglected to follow the correct process and instead kept it all internal, asking only those employed at the club.

They stuffed up.
Click to expand...
we are all responsible for what enters our body!-- if they felt something was really suss, then yes your right-- but that's an assumption isn't it? and if they trusted that's gotta count for something.

again on the edge isn't over the edge, that leads back to what was in their heart and mind-- we always internalise--think feel-- before we externalise-- and who wouldn't ask the person responsible first if we had concern-- doubts another question or reality. Anyway i doubt whatever i said would change what it is you think/feel from the look of things--and I'm feeling a bit ganged up on just quietly :)-, (wheres all my Essendon back ups anyway),yoo hoo- anybody out there--nah its all good-- how about we wait and see what happens next Tuesday and see if that adds any light the situation and to our arguments--would that be OK in the interim, I can understand where your coming from, and you make some really great points, i'm glad to have been shown the other side of the coin so to speak, appreciated, your all good, and good debaters that's for sure, I'm not surrendering though:)-, i just cant see them carrying guilt and playing that way, instinct, thats all, but im really looking forward to the sound of the gavel.
 

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whatsthego said:
he is a fully qualified sports scientist and biochemist--wikipedia-- its not what his governed by, that has anything to do with the trust these players placed in him though does it.
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He is a biochemist with no qualifications on sports science.

Wikipedia eh? Lol
 
whatsthego said:
1/Im just saying what a doctor tells you you normally believe --don't you?--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk
full stop in my book. When was the last time you didn't take what the doctor told you to?
2/nurses give medication to clients, carers give medication to clients, so do appointed staff at sporting clubs. where the doctor is doesn't matter. he could be taking a s#%$@T, still doesn't matter.
3/ meds improve all the time-- isn't it the aim to get the best of what you can, whats available. lest hope they do improve yes?
4/ of course you have a clear conscience you took in good faith what the doctor gave you-- why didn't you have a clear conscience the last time you took medicine the doctor offered you?
5/ the workplace-- what the authority of the workplace? isn't that authority the doctor?
6/ well of course you do-- why wouldn't you-- you trust your doctor don't you?
7/your obviously guilty of nothing. Cheers mate--
Click to expand...
If you go to a Dr and he gives you a medication that makes you unfit to drive, but doesn't tell you. if you drive and get caught, you are in trouble. The Dr may also be in trouble on negligence grounds, but it doesn't absolve you. It may impact the penalty, but who is guilty, of driving in an unfit state, you.

If they had substances injected into their body that are against the WADA code, it doesn't matter if they were advised to do so by God.
 
whatsthego said:
he is a fully qualified sports scientist and biochemist--wikipedia--
Click to expand...

No, this is just utter BS. He is NOT a qualified sports scientist, and has NO qualifications in sports science. You should also learn how to use Wikipedia, as there is no Wikipedia article that describes Dank as a "fully qualified sports scientist", nor one that gives his qualifications in Sports Science. Because he doesn't have any.

"THE director of Australia's peak body for sports scientists, David Bishop, has called into question the qualifications of the man at the centre of the Essendon drugs scandal.

Bishop said Stephen Dank "would not even be eligible for accreditation'' with Exercise & Sports Science Australia, the regulatory body that represents 3500 members, and suggested it was "beyond highly unusual'' for a person in Dank's role to oversee a program of supplement injections.

"From what I can tell he's got a physiology or pharmacology degree,'' Bishop, a research leader at Victoria University, said."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ed-into-question/story-e6frf9jf-1226621082850
 
whatsthego said:
gee you make some good pints there-- hows these for answers?
Dank is a biochemist/sports scientist-- same amount of college time-- but fair enough-- OK he wasn't a doctor-- i didn't even know that-- still they trusted him, as a person-as a professional - who was highly qualified
the fact they went to the club is just what they thought was right to do-- maybe -- i don't know -- what was in their minds and hearts i'm not going to get into a conspiracy theory about-- if they say that's what they thought they should do as the authority/management then i believe them. i'm not going to start imagining bad, like others, vested in imagination or attack. on the edge isn't over the edge, thats why they asked the club for confirmation--thinking that's what they should do if they had any doubts-- did they-- one did apparently-- did they know their responsibility--i guess that would have to be asked of them outside of what you say they were told anyway--were they (willfull) that's a big statement , could even be libelous--were they ignorant, maybe, not a crime.
comparisons--elite level sport will always look for advantages nothing new or malicious there--so getting big and strong is why they all take supplements, nothing there either--.
Click to expand...
They asked the club when they became suspicious because they'd been told to keep it on the hush hush.... Mistake. Dodgy.
 

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Player in legal action against the AFL and Essendon - Hal Hunter

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