Please Take Cotchin!!!!!!!

[SS_Fury]

Kerr is the exception to the rule....you dont know just how good cotchin will be, however Kruezer is a safer bet.

 

[gandaal]

Kerr is the exception to the rule....you dont know just how good cotchin will be, however Kruezer is a safer bet.

There are no exceptions to the rule. There are no rules for that matter.

Who says Kruezer is a safer bet?

 

[SS_Fury]

because cotchin has been tagged out of games completely...Kruezer has been a dominant ruckman, KPP....thus = safer

Its just my opinion, quality talls are hard to come by....the livingston analogy is a bad one.

 

[Blues_Man]

You bring up Allan as a good example? Really? Wow he is one of MY examples of why not to draft the ruckman if it is close between 2 players. He took a long time to develop, had a VERY short time at his peak, then became injury prone and dropped off badly. Allan's career was ordinary. You have his peak year as evidence. I cite his career. If Kreuzer's career maps Allan's and we draft him I will be MASSIVELY disappointed. You want me to wait 5 years for his 3 good years and then be annoyed with him when he starts dropping off? Josh Fraser anyone?

Your Blake vs. King argument is plain silly. That has nothing to do with draft selection. It has everything to do with picking the best team on the day. The same would apply for every position on the ground. But in King you give another example of a broken down ruckman. Keep ignoring the evidence at your peril. It just so happened that on GF day he was finally fit.

I think you have to be very careful taking a ruckman so early when other "lock" options are available. The game wears them down. You bring up King. Allan. Both had injury riddled careers. Both at Kreuzer's age were VERY promising. The game breaks them down.

You want to take a really good young ruckman when all the evidence suggests he will be no better as a player than Cotchin. If their TOP LEVEL output is the same then you can take this to the bank: Cotchin will have MORE TIME AT HIS TOP. You want to take Kreuzer because we need him. St. Kilda needed Kosi too. West Coast needed Gardiner. Bring up Lade as you may. Very average career as a ruckman until now. Cox? 3 great years. So far. Injuries are starting to creep in. Let's see how long he lasts at that peak. At his stage of career Gardiner was looking fantastic too. Primus? Knee after knee? Everitt is the only exception of recent times. Absolute top shelf and lasted a long time.

Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I am merely trying to point this out: many want to take Kreuzer purely because we need a ruckman (ie: the only reason why people prefer him to Cotchin). But then those same people ignore what often happens to ruckmen. It isn't random. It isn't bad luck. It isn't even frigging unlikely. Yes we need a ruckman. But I'd rather not over-capitalise on it by giving up number 1 when a gun like Cotchin is available.

Are you sure you aren't Mick Malthouse ??? he has moronic ideas about the value of ruckmen as well ....Heres a tip ..if you have 2 players with similar talent levels, one a small midfielder ..the other a big KPP ...you take the big bloke every time .

Who finished the higher in the TAC cup best and fairest ??? I mean if Cotchin is such a matchwinner he must have blitzed it in .

 

[gandaal]

Are you sure you aren't Mick Malthouse ??? he has moronic ideas about the value of ruckmen as well ....Heres a tip ..if you have 2 players with similar talent levels, one a small midfielder ..the other a big KPP ...you take the big bloke every time .

Who finished the higher in the TAC cup best and fairest ??? I mean if Cotchin is such a matchwinner he must have blitzed it in .

That's an ignorant statement. Not only is Cotchin bottom aged, unlike Kruezer, he also played the majority of his footy for his school.

 

[mediumsizered]

I think there is little doubt that Carlton will be choosing Kruezer, but I must admit the Josh Fraser scenario makes me feel a little uncomfortable about using a #1 pick on a ruckman (you can probably throw Gardner's limited impact over his entire career into the equation as well).

Fraser was a certainty to be taken at #1 & when you look at the '97 draft you can see why. Pick 2, Haselby, Pick 3, Fiora, Pick 4 Pavlich, Pick 5, Leigh Brown, Pick 6, Cupido, Pick 7, Danny Roach. What concerns me is the possibility that, like Fraser, Kruezer stands out because of the relatively poor quality of the draft pool. This raises the question, where would Kruezer have rated if he was in last year's rich draft pool?

Based on the various write-ups about both Kruezer & Cotchin, there is not much between the 2 of them. Kruezer is probably considered to be marginally ahead in the eyes of many Carlton supporters & perhaps recruiters, because he is a mobile, 199.5cm ruckman (?), which of cause is an area in which we are lacking. Therefore in picking Kruezer ahead of Cotchin are we picking the best available player or choosing for need? The #1 pick should never be used to fulfil a need, it should always be utilised to pick the best available player.

 

[Blue Dawn]

I'll be VERY surprised if we take Cotchin next week. Big blokes with the athleticism of Cox combined with the attitude of Hamill don't come along very often. Josh Fraser he ain't.

 

[lopezz]

Because he dominates games. He is a match winner. Kreuzer is not (IMO). Kreuzer is a wonderfully consistent highly competitive, go all day ruckman. Who can pinch hit out of a forward pocket. He can crumb his own ruck contest and run with the midfielders. BUT. I don't see him as a match winner.

I love this continual referal to Cox as if Judd etc rely on him. IF that logic is correct, then he is in for one god awful year regardless of whether we pick Kreuzer. Right? I don't think so. Stevens was terrific for us when he wasn't injured or being mauled by a tagger. He didn't need a ruckman for that. Ruckmen are more valuable if they can get the ball around the ground. They are useless if they get thrashed in ruck contests. That's all. But once you pit a 200cm jumper against another more often than not it is difficult to determine who is getting the upper hand in hitouts. Check the hitouts to advantage stats. Hitouts are often over-rated I think. The only time any side gets dominated in hitouts is if they have a midget (like we do) rucking. Those days are over. Hampson will not be dominated. At all. By anyone.

Cotchin is a match winner. That's why I'd prefer him.

Thats quite an opinion! How can you shoot a man down for his because he is backing the stand out prospect?? When your reasoning is based on 1 guy who's played 2 games and 1 who hasn't been drafted yet!

Not sayin who we should pick cause they will both make our team better, Gale v Hawkins. And i'd love to see the Hammer dominate cause he could be special. But i havn't seen him beat an opponent yet so bit early to say he will never be be dominated?
Is Hampson's extra 1.3cm height and 2kg LESS weight, with 2 years of playing the sport, gonna dominate a younger more proven natural player like a still growing, heavier, polished Kruezer??

My two favorite players are the irish boys! can't wait for Aisake, but mate, we can't expect him to take first ruck and do it well for another 2-3.

To compare lists of rucks and mids was silly. And to compare their hopeful AA selection just doesn't add up. Gibbs and murph have both played better, more consistent football over the last 12 months and would be way ahead for selection than anything we have rucking on our list! I would expect a developed Kruezer to be a better option than Ackland or cloke. That would leave us with three hopeful rucks! None proven!!

A few teams go all the way without forwards but name the last team to win a flag without a ruck?

 

[Donstuie]

That's an ignorant statement. Not only is Cotchin bottom aged, unlike Kruezer, he also played the majority of his footy for his school.

Then how can you categorically say he is a matchwinner if this has been the standard he's played against most of his time?

 

[gandaal]

Then how can you categorically say he is a matchwinner if this has been the standard he's played against most of his time?

I never said that. That was the opinion of another poster.

Where's Gilly when you need him?

 

[dp3[WLD]]

IMO of a outsider

i believe you must take Kruezer given his performances in this year he has been proven worthy of the hype. Looking towards the future as well, you need someone like him.

Cotchin however is an awesome player but really, you dont really need him since you have

-JUDD -STEVENS
-GIBBS -MURPHY
-CARRAZO (feel free to add more)

as your prime on ballers you dont really need cotchin.

But however, which way you go, i am sure you will get value for money.

 

[Crippa#9]

I think it was simple case of taking:

Leunberger and Cotchin or
Gibbs and Kreuzer

we're going with 2nd option.

 

[jj1978]

The media this morning has gone Cotchin mad.... both the sun and the Age are raving how they think Cotchin is no1.... well it will sell papers.

I think for us we should take Kreuzer.. we've already drafted two skilled midfielders in this draft (Judd, Hadley) and even if Kreuzer is in the end ends up not being as good as Cotchin... the benefits of having a 2m+ tall monster with pace is exceptionally valuable. We'll have players like Gibbs, Murphy, Judd who will be better or close to as good as Cotchin... but we have no proven as yet players better than Kreuzer in his category.

The media is making it tough but Kreuzer for mine!

 

[HBF]

I so hope carlton take cotchin!!!
I have faith in aiske and hampson so i hope we take cotchin and have the best midfield in the league. Matthew seems to be more one of those players we dont need as he will not really fit in as i think 200 cm is to small these days to ruck. I would rather another freak mid and have judd, stevens , murphy , gibbs and cotchin in the mid dominating.!!!!

I've swung back onto Cotchin over the past couple of days as well. My reasoning is this:

We have Cloke and Ackland that are ready to go round 1, as is Hampson. Aisake shows alot of promise, and has been elevated onto the senior list. We also have Jacobs on the rookie list as well. We could also use Carlos there as well, and with another 12 months of development, guys like Austin, Jamison and Bower could all become permanent members of the backline.

So, for 2009, our back 6 could be: Anderson, Austin, Jamison, Bower, Thornton and Scotland.

This gives us the option of using Carlos in the ruck, with either Cloke, Hampson or Aisake. Or, we keep Carlos in the back half, and use Cloke and Hampson.

This way, we get Cotchin, and our midfield would be unbeatable in a couple of years time. Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Stevens, Grigg, Walker, Carrazzo and Cotchin. Unbeatable.

Finally, we can take a developing ruckman at #36 or #46. Someone like a Dawson Simpson, Andrew Renton or Dean Putt.

 

[dp3[WLD]]

dont forget

Gibbs will be the eqivalent of Cousins and Judd

 

[HBF]

dont forget

Gibbs will be the eqivalent of Cousins and Judd

And Murphy has been compared to Crawford/Cousins as well.
And, Cotchin has been compared to Gary Ablett Jnr.

 

[DamianBis]

yeah. i've been compared to Gary Ablett Jnr. as well. Except they said that i was the exact opposite. lol

 

[Dk#1]

yeah. i've been compared to Gary Ablett Jnr. as well. Except they said that i was the exact opposite. lol

LOLz

 

[thylacine60]

Try to look a little further ahead than the point of your noses. We will more than likely finish bottom 4 next season and unless the AFL remove draft picks from us on Monday (joking but people would love to see it) I'm guessing there will be a handy mid-fielder available to us. Doubt there will be a handy 200 cm, mobile KPP there though.

 

[gandaal]

The media this morning has gone Cotchin mad.... both the sun and the Age are raving how they think Cotchin is no1.... well it will sell papers.

I think for us we should take Kreuzer.. we've already drafted two skilled midfielders in this draft (Judd, Hadley) and even if Kreuzer is in the end ends up not being as good as Cotchin... the benefits of having a 2m+ tall monster with pace is exceptionally valuable. We'll have players like Gibbs, Murphy, Judd who will be better or close to as good as Cotchin... but we have no proven as yet players better than Kreuzer in his category.

The media is making it tough but Kreuzer for mine!

What would the media have to do with it?

 

[Lindy]

Try to look a little further ahead than the point of your noses. We will more than likely finish bottom 4 next season and unless the AFL remove draft picks from us on Monday (joking but people would love to see it) I'm guessing there will be a handy mid-fielder available to us. Doubt there will be a handy 200 cm, mobile KPP there though.

Good point mate, well probally get a top 10 pick next year. I think pick 7 or 10. There is no reason why we shouldn't get a quality mid next yr. or example this draft in 2008. We would be looking at palmer, masten or myers. WOuld love 1 of them at the blues

 

[Beloved]

I just could never bring myself to ever take Cotchin over Kreuzer, alot of it due to media attention, but the other part of it is just the shear fact of size, and we definately need a ruckman, so if we can get a ruckman who is also handy around the park, it's just too much of a temptation to pass up.

 

[gandaal]

Try to look a little further ahead than the point of your noses. We will more than likely finish bottom 4 next season and unless the AFL remove draft picks from us on Monday (joking but people would love to see it) I'm guessing there will be a handy mid-fielder available to us. Doubt there will be a handy 200 cm, mobile KPP there though.

Funny, and here I was thinking that it was the Kruezer supporters who weren't looking further ahead than the point of their noses. We lack a senior ruckman right now, and that's the reason why many want Kruezer as they're delusional enough to believe that Kruezer will walk straight into first ruck. Yet we have Hampson and Aisake developing, both showing that they have plenty of potential, and Jacobs on the rookie list so imo our ruck stocks are looking pretty bright. We don't NEED a ruck draftee at this stage.

And the idea that a quality mid will be available again with a latter pick next year is ridiculous. How many gun match winning midfielders are out there that can change a game? Not many, they are as rare as ruckman. Pick 10 in this draft will get you Masten who'll get plenty of the ball but will never rip a game apart. cotchin on the other hand...

If you look at all the quality mids over the last few years 80% of them we're drafted very very early. If you look at all the quality ruckman over the last few years 80% of them were drafted through the rookie draft.

 

[HBF]

Try to look a little further ahead than the point of your noses. We will more than likely finish bottom 4 next season and unless the AFL remove draft picks from us on Monday (joking but people would love to see it) I'm guessing there will be a handy mid-fielder available to us. Doubt there will be a handy 200 cm, mobile KPP there though.

Nicholas Naitanui. Absolute freak from the West.

 

[gandaal]

I just could never bring myself to ever take Cotchin over Kreuzer, alot of it due to media attention, but the other part of it is just the shear fact of size, and we definately need a ruckman, so if we can get a ruckman who is also handy around the park, it's just too much of a temptation to pass up.

Only an idiot picks for need with pick 1 of the AFL draft.