Port Adelaide: making North/Bulldogs look like Fiscal giants

[Papa G]

REH = Port 2004
Wookie = Carlton 2005

 

[Eric Blair]

The sad part is that Port is getting reamed by the SANFL, their state's governing football body that has been bleeding them dry with that stadium deal.

At least we are getting ripped off by a whoring 3rd party who only got into building a stadium to turn a profit. That was blatant mismanagement by the AFL to allow that to happen, Port had no real option, they had to accept the deal that was put to them or they wouldn't have got the sub-lease.

AFL should have used this period of trouble to free Port and the Crows from SANFL servitude and enforce a proper profit sharing arrangement, not a scenario where they skim a big chunk of the revenue from the stadium before also hitting them with license fees and leaving it up to them to work a way to keep their head above water. SANFL should invest in the success of their clubs success and profit from it, if they fail to achieve that then they don't get anything from the club other than ground rental and matchday overheads.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

Sub standard trolling from the wookie, magnificent smack down from REH

 

[cm_perfect]

The main issue here is control (I am sure REH and his minions will correct me if I am wrong)

1. The SANFL want funding from the AFL to run the SANFL (like other state leagues get)
2. The AFL will only give funding if the AFL control football in SA (rebadged SAAFL)
3. SANFL will not relinquish control so they get the funding from bleeding both SA AFL licences.

Our licence issues will not be sorted out until points 1 and 2 are resolved.

 

[TheFVK]

The main issue here is control (I am sure REH and his minions will correct me if I am wrong)

1. The SANFL want funding from the AFL to run the SANFL (like other state leagues get)
2. The AFL will only give funding if the AFL control football in SA (rebadged SAAFL)
3. SANFL will not relinquish control so they get the funding from bleeding both SA AFL licences.

Our licence issues will not be sorted out until points 1 and 2 are resolved.

Control is spot on. Those in charge of the SANFL grew up in a time of "Kick a Vic" and SoO, and so accepting AFL money (and implied power loss) is accepting defeat to the mean 'ol VFL in their eyes. Unfortunately Crows and Port lose out in this power struggle and will do until those in charge of SA footy swallow their pride and accept that we now have a national competition.

 

[mick_foley]

What I’d like to know is, how much does history cost?
Not your own history but the history of the entire competition. How much does the history of the SANFL cost?

Without the 120 year of SANFL history, neither the Crows nor the Power would exist. Let’s get the straight. Neither would be in the AFL and neither would have an opportunity to generate $100’s of thousands of dollars per year.

Therefore, it’s a bit rich (pardon the pun) for Port Adelaide to be sprouting the crap about making a profit for the SANFL from their own earnings. The history of the SANFL, the 9 SANFL clubs have given you an opportunity to play in the AFL. Without them, you done exist, you don’t win, you don’t lose and you certainly don’t play in the AFL because you don’t play against yourself.
You have been put in a very privileged position thanks to the other clubs and the history football in this state has generated.

Show some respect to your past, stop ****ing whinging and build a bridge you ungrateful bastards.

 

[simba_]

What I’d like to know is, how much does history cost?
Not your own history but the history of the entire competition. How much does the history of the SANFL cost?

Without the 120 year of SANFL history, neither the Crows nor the Power would exist. Let’s get the straight. Neither would be in the AFL and neither would have an opportunity to generate $100’s of thousands of dollars per year.

Therefore, it’s a bit rich (pardon the pun) for Port Adelaide to be sprouting the crap about making a profit for the SANFL from their own earnings. The history of the SANFL, the 9 SANFL clubs have given you an opportunity to play in the AFL. Without them, you done exist, you don’t win, you don’t lose and you certainly don’t play in the AFL because you don’t play against yourself.
You have been put in a very privileged position thanks to the other clubs and the history football in this state has generated.

Show some respect to your past, stop ****ing whinging and build a bridge you ungrateful bastards.

Port Adelaide put Port Adelaide in this position... I have read enough on our board to know Port always brought the crowds, the biggest matches (both in footy and financial terms) were always Port orientated and in the words of D. Wakelin we "always did the heavy lifting for football in this state." But people like you pretend we owe the SANFL something for "making us famous".. that is not how it panned out..

I mean to actually say "you have been put in a very privileged position thanks to the other clubs and the history football in this state has generated" and be sincere about it is laughable! who "generated" this history? North Adelaide?

We were around BEFORE the SANFL even was.

 

[cm_perfect]

What I’d like to know is, how much does history cost?
Not your own history but the history of the entire competition. How much does the history of the SANFL cost?

Without the 120 year of SANFL history, neither the Crows nor the Power would exist. Let’s get the straight. Neither would be in the AFL and neither would have an opportunity to generate $100’s of thousands of dollars per year.

Therefore, it’s a bit rich (pardon the pun) for Port Adelaide to be sprouting the crap about making a profit for the SANFL from their own earnings. The history of the SANFL, the 9 SANFL clubs have given you an opportunity to play in the AFL. Without them, you done exist, you don’t win, you don’t lose and you certainly don’t play in the AFL because you don’t play against yourself.
You have been put in a very privileged position thanks to the other clubs and the history football in this state has generated.

Show some respect to your past, stop ****ing whinging and build a bridge you ungrateful bastards.

Agree completely..I have this debate often with PAFC supporters..they forget that they do not own the licence the SANFL do, the SANFL owe it to their 9 clubs to make a profit from their investment and support the SANFL.

The PAFC supporters were not complaining when they could draw a decent crowd, now they cant and it is everyone elses fault.

When I posted the control piece above, that is the main issue but I am not in favour of the AFL taking over the SANFL as I dont think it would benefit the competition at all.

 

[Papa G]

Thank you West Torrens, thank you South Adelaide, thank you West Adelaide, thank you Norwood, thank you Glenelg, thank you Centrals, thank you Sturt, thank you North, thanks Peckers, without you, Port Adelaide would not be the undisputed greatest and most successful football club in South Australia. We couldn't have done it without you.

 

[simba_]

I guess mick is right, you can't win all those flags without opposition.

 

[cm_perfect]

Thank you West Torrens, thank you South Adelaide, thank you West Adelaide, thank you Norwood, thank you Glenelg, thank you Centrals, thank you Sturt, thank you North, thanks Peckers, without you, Port Adelaide would not be the undisputed greatest and most successful football club in South Australia. We couldn't have done it without you.

I sense you are taking the piss but your post is 100% accurate, the way some of you devalue the very competition that enabled you to recieve those accolades astounds me..

The biggest $$ issue for the PAFC currently is crowds, I do not see how that is the SANFL's fault, get your 30k+ and the PAFC make money.

 

[Macca19]

Agree completely..I have this debate often with PAFC supporters..they forget that they do not own the licence the SANFL do, the SANFL owe it to their 9 clubs to make a profit from their investment and support the SANFL.

I dont think anybody suggests that the SANFL shouldnt be able to make money from the two AFL clubs. But you look at the current situation in SA where all of the Crows, Port and the SANFL are losing money. You look at the situation in Perth where all of Freo, WC and the WAFL are printing their own money. Shouldnt take a genius to work out that somewhere along the line, something is going wrong with football in our state and to blame it solely on Port Adelaide is bull shit.

 

[cm_perfect]

I dont think anybody suggests that the SANFL shouldnt be able to make money from the two AFL clubs. But you look at the current situation in SA where all of the Crows, Port and the SANFL are losing money. You look at the situation in Perth where all of Freo, WC and the WAFL are printing their own money. Shouldnt take a genius to work out that somewhere along the line, something is going wrong with football in our state and to blame it solely on Port Adelaide is bull shit.

Not blaming it all on the PAFC, my response was aimed at some others in this thread.

But, if you/we get a cheaper stadium deal where does that money come from??, thats right, the SANFL. There is no magic pot of gold that the SANFL are hiding, it comes down to crowd numbers for both clubs..

Unfortunately I dont see it getting any better at AO

 

[mick_foley]

I dont think anybody suggests that the SANFL shouldnt be able to make money from the two AFL clubs. But you look at the current situation in SA where all of the Crows, Port and the SANFL are losing money. You look at the situation in Perth where all of Freo, WC and the WAFL are printing their own money. Shouldnt take a genius to work out that somewhere along the line, something is going wrong with football in our state and to blame it solely on Port Adelaide is bull shit.

That's exactly what people are saying.

It's your money, all your money and **** the rest. The rest can go please them self on the scraps.

 

[Magma]

oh great this thread again

 

[Consolaçao]

Ok having take Port supporters advice and dug a little deeper, its not just a 2 million loan - its a 6 million loan to the SANFL over 3 years on top of the new disequal ASD funding model. In addition the SANFL can use a credit facility supplied by the AFL for a further 1.5 million a year. WTH

Not sure what your point is.

There will always be a poorest team, like there will always be a richest team. Do we get rid of a team as soon as they can't turn a profit? Do we really want to apply free market principles to footy? Think about the league adoption of these sorts of principles will create. I bet you whinge about commercialisation in the game... what's gonna make the game even more focussed on commercial opportunities? I reckon applying the cut-throat rules of the business world would do it.

Just imagine: Carlton have 4-5 bad years, and revenues are down to the point where their viability as a business is threatened? What if Woolworths then offer them $20 million to become the Woolworths Blues for a decade? They'd have to take it if the alternative was ceasing to exist. If they said no, not a problem. Some Chinese businessman has a proposal for an amazingly solvent business... sorry... football team to be run out of Shanghai. It'll be great. Cutting all these inefficiently run firms from the marketplace... sorry... league, will ensure prudent financial decision making (which, let's face it, is what sport should be about!). You'd have some of the best business execs and accountants in the region running these franchises, so it would be great. Customers... sorry... fans will win too. They'll love it, right? Doesn't an efficiently run, profit making, cut throat competition for long-term business solvency held between rival firms just get everyone's pulses racing?

The thing you numbnuts obviously don't think about when you talk about throwing teams in the trash like they're yesterdays pizza is how the effects flow on to everything else. Let's look at getting rid of North. They have maybe 200,000 self-identified fans, most of whom may be lost to the sport forever if they're folded. Can a sport as niche as ours afford to do this to a sizeable percentage of the game's followers? I don't reckon so.. And on the individual level... people have followed these teams week in, week out for their entire lives. In a lot of cases, football is one of the biggest things in a person's life. Yet you want to flick teams because of something so trivial as the fact they require a minuscule fraction of the AFL's millions annually to keep afloat? And even from your own selfish perspective, would you rather have a home game against North, with history, tradition, and the money from thousands of loyal North fans buying tickets, or a game against some meaningless franchise from regional Australia played in front of 15,000.

Apologies... this has gone on too long, but it irritates me how many Australian football supporters barrack for the death of other clubs.

 

[Papa G]

I sense you are taking the piss but your post is 100% accurate, the way some of you devalue the very competition that enabled you to recieve those accolades astounds me..

The biggest $$ issue for the PAFC currently is crowds, I do not see how that is the SANFL's fault, get your 30k+ and the PAFC make money.

I do not devalue the SANFL as a competition in itself, I devalue the idea that an organisation who's members essentially hate us through years of jealousy and a notion that we somehow "stabbed them in the back" get to basically dictate to us what we can and can't do, profit from our efforts and then, when confronted with the sad truth that they spend far multiple times more than what they themselves generate, blame us any rate. Something has to give. The current system does not work. Even the Crows, who should be the financial monolith that the West Coast Eagles are are not entirely flourishing. Apparently the licence issuse is meant to come to a head in the middle of this year, again something has to give because the current system is killing us and hindering the Crows. Port has more members than the entire other 8 SANFL clubs put together, yet apparently it is meant to be up to us to "Grow the pie".

 

[Powerade 08]

The biggest $$ issue for the PAFC currently is crowds, I do not see how that is the SANFL's fault, get your 30k+ and the PAFC make money.

Proof?

 

[cm_perfect]

I do not devalue the SANFL as a competition in itself, I devalue the idea that an organisation who's members essentially hate us through years of jealousy and a notion that we somehow "stabbed them in the back" get to basically dictate to us what we can and can't do, profit from our efforts and then, when confronted with the sad truth that they spend far multiple times more than what they themselves generate, blame us any rate. Something has to give. The current system does not work. Even the Crows, who should be the financial monolith that the West Coast Eagles are are not entirely flourishing. Apparently the licence issuse is meant to come to a head in the middle of this year, again something has to give because the current system is killing us and hindering the Crows. Port has more members than the entire other 8 SANFL clubs put together, yet apparently it is meant to be up to us to "Grow the pie".

Hate is a strong word, the Norwood boy in me has a healthy dislike

The SANFL would of made a profit this year if not having to help the PAFC (which they need to, because they will not make any money if the PAFC disappears)

The AFC bottom line would of looked a lot better if we didnt build the Taj in what is now no mans land and pay the last payment for the white elephant that is the Northern Stand.

The current system is hurting both clubs because crowd numbers have dropped. Even if we get our own licenses we still have to pay to rent the stadium each week which will not be much (if any) cheaper than we pay now. Unless of course we start selling off home games which I really dont think is the answer.

The answer is, both clubs playing decent footy, moving up the ladder for a prolonged period and the crowds will return and the money problems will disappear for the SANFL, AFC and PAFC.

 

[FishingRick04]

Not sure what your point is.

There will always be a poorest team, like there will always be a richest team. Do we get rid of a team as soon as they can't turn a profit? Do we really want to apply free market principles to footy? Think about the league adoption of these sorts of principles will create. I bet you whinge about commercialisation in the game... what's gonna make the game even more focussed on commercial opportunities? I reckon applying the cut-throat rules of the business world would do it.

Just imagine: Carlton have 4-5 bad years, and revenues are down to the point where their viability as a business is threatened? What if Woolworths then offer them $20 million to become the Woolworths Blues for a decade? They'd have to take it if the alternative was ceasing to exist. If they said no, not a problem. Some Chinese businessman has a proposal for an amazingly solvent business... sorry... football team to be run out of Shanghai. It'll be great. Cutting all these inefficiently run firms from the marketplace... sorry... league, will ensure prudent financial decision making (which, let's face it, is what sport should be about!). You'd have some of the best business execs and accountants in the region running these franchises, so it would be great. Customers... sorry... fans will win too. They'll love it, right? Doesn't an efficiently run, profit making, cut throat competition for long-term business solvency held between rival firms just get everyone's pulses racing?

The thing you numbnuts obviously don't think about when you talk about throwing teams in the trash like they're yesterdays pizza is how the effects flow on to everything else. Let's look at getting rid of North. They have maybe 200,000 self-identified fans, most of whom may be lost to the sport forever if they're folded. Can a sport as niche as ours afford to do this to a sizeable percentage of the game's followers? I don't reckon so.. And on the individual level... people have followed these teams week in, week out for their entire lives. In a lot of cases, football is one of the biggest things in a person's life. Yet you want to flick teams because of something so trivial as the fact they require a minuscule fraction of the AFL's millions annually to keep afloat? And even from your own selfish perspective, would you rather have a home game against North, with history, tradition, and the money from thousands of loyal North fans buying tickets, or a game against some meaningless franchise from regional Australia played in front of 15,000.

Apologies... this has gone on too long, but it irritates me how many Australian football supporters barrack for the death of other clubs.

Nice post, hence why mergers are preferred

BTW wasn't Carlton in the position not so long ago?

 

[cm_perfect]

Proof?

Proof your crowds have declined to a level that is unsustainable or proof the AFC crowds have dropped to a level where we are not a financial powerhouse we once were ?? Do you really need proof ????

Isnt the cutoff around 25k, are you disputing the point that a 30k crowd with the current arrangement would make you money ?

 

[shintemaster]

The answer is, both clubs playing decent footy, moving up the ladder for a prolonged period and the crowds will return and the money problems will disappear for the SANFL, AFC and PAFC.

Do you really think that is an answer though?

In an 18 team competition odds are that you'll spend more time away from the top than not. This is not just a SA problem either. The solution needs to be one that is viable while a team is on the lower ebbs - and potentially for prolonged periods.

 

[Malibu#27]

A the SANFL owe it to their 9 clubs to make a profit from their investment and support the SANFL.

And herein lies the problem. The SANFL treat the two clubs as revenue raisers to support their operations and running of the SANFL competition.

Football clubs have never been money making assets, and cannot sustain this in the current climate.

 

[cm_perfect]

And herein lies the problem. The SANFL treat the two clubs as revenue raisers to support their operations and running of the SANFL competition.

Football clubs have never been money making assets, and cannot sustain this in the current climate.

Agreed, blame the AFL then not the SANFL, and while we have a choice of 2 stadiums owned/run by either the SMA or the SANFL we are both screwed no matter who holds the license (unless we sell home games)

Football clubs became money making assets when the AFL decided to sell license's to an organisation that can sublet that license out

 

[cm_perfect]

Do you really think that is an answer though?

In an 18 team competition odds are that you'll spend more time away from the top than not. This is not just a SA problem either. The solution needs to be one that is viable while a team is on the lower ebbs - and potentially for prolonged periods.

Yes I do, unless each state has a boutique 25k to 30k stadium to play at.

While clubs continue to half fill current stadiums they will not make money (Geelong the exclusion)

 

[RonSon]

I dont think anybody suggests that the SANFL shouldnt be able to make money from the two AFL clubs. But you look at the current situation in SA where all of the Crows, Port and the SANFL are losing money. You look at the situation in Perth where all of Freo, WC and the WAFL are printing their own money. Shouldnt take a genius to work out that somewhere along the line, something is going wrong with football in our state and to blame it solely on Port Adelaide is bull shit.

I found this on the SANFL site last night. Found one part very interesting.


http://www.sanfl.com.au/the_sanfl/sa_football_commission/

LEIGH WHICKER

SA Football Executive Commissioner and SANFL General Manager

• General Manager since 1984 and full-time employee of the SANFL since 1981.
• Appointed Executive Commissioner with the formation of the South Australian Football Commission in 1990.
• Served as an integral member of the Football Park Steering Committee, which was responsible for the planning, development and completion of a new football stadium at West Lakes in the early 1970s.
• Established the catering operations at Football Park (now AAMI Stadium), which has since evolved into a business turning over more than $11 million each year.
• Appointed the first full-time Sturt Football Club General Manager in 1966.
• Served as League Delegate (Director) to the SANFL from 1968 to 1972.
• Played 43 league games with Sturt from 1963 to 1966 before injury forced him to retire prematurely.
• Awarded SANFL Life Membership in 1996 and AFL Life Membership in 2004.

http://www.sanfl.com.au/the_sanfl/sa_football_commission/




That's not bad coin for lukewarm pies and beer.

I wonder how much he makes by turning the pie warmers down and beer fridges up?