Port or Crows, who's been more successful in the AFL?

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PenfoldsFan said:
It highlights how hard it is for interstate clubs to win the GF in Melbourne.
Throw WC into the equation as another football state and apart from their initial success with a gifted state team, they've only managed to beat a non Vic club in Sydney and Collingwobbles in the dying minutes.
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West Coast have won 4 flags, 3 of them against Victorian teams.
 

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Goggin Our Best said:
Not sour grapes or anything - because Big Footy posters want to put asterisks against as many flags as possible

However i would vote for Pt Adelaide - they have got a genuine bona fide Premiership - plus plenty of top of the ladder finishes in their history

Adelaide have got 2 Premierships - however both years they had paltry 13-9 records - yet they are the Champion team

Ive posted this before - but the Crows 98 flag is the 2nd worst premiership ever in the history of VFL/AFL - only Fitzroys 4th and last in a 4 team comp - then win the flag is worse than the Crows

1998 - they win 13 games finish 5th - get flogged by Melb in week one - by plus 10 goals - and get a 2nd chance - that is rubbish - then simply win 3 games - and they are the champ - no that premiership should be ruled null and void

1997 - they get a vital home final in the 2nd week - the AFL were making up the rules re finals in the 90s - on a daily basis - there was nothing set in concrete

Adelaide are yet to win a proper flag - alah - have a very good season - win 17-18 games etc - and then win the flag - mickey mouse rules in the 90s got them the 2 flags

Thus for mine Port Adelaide are the better club
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I might disagree with it, But I like this answer…
 
Ho
PrisonBars4life said:
I think this is a really good post. The reality is the landscape has changed. Half the competition doesn't even rate pre 1990 flags, nor should they. Collingwood or Essendon trumpeting their flags from the early to mid 1900s means nothing to me and many many others. The reality is does Hawthorn or Brisbane's flags mean anything right now? They are nice to reflect back on but almost 20 years ago for Brisbane and 6 years ago for Hawthorn. Melbourne are the defending premiers (at least for the next 24 hours) and I wouldn't call them a successful club. a) they have been one of the worst teams of the past 20 years b) The last 5 years have been 1) finished 5th - won 2 finals got belted by 12 goals in a prelim 2) finished 2nd last, 3) finished 9th 4) flag 5) straight sets. Their flag is 1 season amongst a sea of absolute mediocrity and there is a question as to whether they will be contenders again in their current cycle.

I see success as a combination of:
  • what have you done in the past - i.e how many flags have you got in total - potential doesn't mean much if you don't occasionally win one.
  • What have you done in the recent past - i.e how many top 8/top 4 finishes in the past 5 years - have you been happy// hopeful in the recent past
  • what did you do this year - is a reflection of the present and future. - are you hopeful for the future.

At the end of the day there are 18 teams in the comp compared with about 8-10 in the VFL days. On average we will see 4 flags in our lifetimes. If that is the only measure of success, why the hell do any of us watch AFL? Clubs don't survive unless they have something to look forward to every few years. Port certainly don't have the luxury of doing a Melbourne. If we sucked for a decade or more, the club would likely fold before we got to reap the benefits of the draft.

This goes for rating players as well. If premierships magically make you a better player, then I can say Toby Thurstans is a better forward than Matthew Richardson Josh Mahony was a better inside mid than Nathan Buckley, Scott West, Robert Harvey. Nick Riewoldt isn't half the player of Quinton Lynch, etc. It's dumb. It's Americanism infecting Australian culture where 2nd is s**t and people like Serena Williams have a mental breakdown and blame everyone else when they lose. I'm looking forward to next season because Port have a shitload of good young players, not because we won an AFL flag in 2004 or 36 flags before that in the SANFL.
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How the **** is it an Americanism? Yanks aren’t the bogey man. Flags are all that matters. It’s written into yours and my clubs DNA. Why try to hide from that fact.

And I can tell you, 2nd in 2007 was most definitely shit. I’d rather have been 3rd.

You also don’t use this logic for players. That’s just.. illogical.
 

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If Port win a flag before Adelaide making it 2 flags a piece, it'll make Port the more successful of the two clubs in the AFL. Port lead head to head between the two and have a better overall win percentage.
 
I see some people mention overall performance as making up for an extra flag, and I can understand this argument for clubs with a decent gap, but for these 2 clubs the home & away win % gap is about 2%, this doesn't make up for an extra flag.
And then there's a couple of other measures of infield where the crows are slightly ahead.

Both clubs are pretty close really.
 
Wallaby said:
How this relates to Port v Crows I don't know. But I would rather support a team that won 1 flag and lost 20 other GFs, than a side that won 2 flags and won the wooden spoon every single year they didn't win the flag. Because the first team would be more successful in my eyes.
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Agreed. My opinion will no doubt be instantly dismissed because Freo haven't won a flag hurr durr, but at the end of the day we all follow footy for enjoyment and the week to week moments are crucial to that.

Flags might be all that matter in retrospect but we don't live in retrospect. We live in the moment and in the day to day life of a footy supporter the weekly wins are a massive part of what makes this hobby enjoyable.
 
estibador said:
Agreed. My opinion will no doubt be instantly dismissed because Freo haven't won a flag hurr durr, but at the end of the day we all follow footy for enjoyment and the week to week moments are crucial to that.

Flags might be all that matter in retrospect but we don't live in retrospect. We live in the moment and in the day to day life of a footy supporter the weekly wins are a massive part of what makes this hobby enjoyable.
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This is a very good post. Like all Crows supporters, I long for another flag, and 2017 burns - but at least it was a loss in a GF and not e.g. an EF or lower. At least, after a few years of rubbish, we're fun to watch again. I know there are Crows supporters who - based on their posting on BigFooty - seem to be very jaded / cynical / giving up on our club because it's been so long between drinks. OK, I can see that, but it's also sucking away your enjoyment of, as you say, the day to day life of a footy supporter.

Of course flags are the ultimate aim. Of course players, coaches, clubs and supporters should / will say they will settle for nothing less. But you can take that too far; it's not a competition to show how serious you are about football.
 

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Port or Crows, who's been more successful in the AFL?

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