Port tell league: we'll go broke without assistance

[morell]

Re: Port tell league: we'll go broke without handout

This is what happens when a club abandons its roots and pretends to be something it’s not.

Time to **** off this concept of “Crows Mach II” and work on restoring ties to our traditional supporter base.

I am looking upon John James' reign with more and more cyncicsm.

 

[FOOOOTY]

1) Is that supposed to sting? To be insulting? I cant say that I know too many 'franchise' club supporters that it affords anything other than a laugh to. It simply makes you look small minded.

Actually its reality, but keep living in your fantasy land.

2) The viability of such a comp would come down to TV rights. If WC, Adelaide, Essendon and Collingwood left to form their own competition, took Brisbane and Sydney with them, there would be enough interest for the TV rights to not be insignificant.

Are you slow?, there would be no Collingwood or Essendon, thus none of their supporters

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Only having 10 teams would serverely affect the agreement between the AFL and the broadcasting networks and hence the income generated, it seems that thought was not used when creating this post.

Or several others.

Super League damn near killed rugby league and it's still recovering. AFL's strength is even more clearly the rabid commitment of the clubs' supporters - no-one looking at it sanely would think cutting most of them out of the picture and thinking people will join one of the newly minted franchises would be a good idea.

 

[Demonheart]

2) The viability of such a comp would come down to TV rights. If WC, Adelaide, Essendon and Collingwood left to form their own competition, took Brisbane and Sydney with them, there would be enough interest for the TV rights to not be insignificant.

How can you be so sure?

The AFL own the names, let's take Collingwood as an example.
The supporter base follow them because of the Collingwood name and brand, if the pies were to leave the AFL then they would have to also leave their branding as well. So the Collingwood Magpies become the Abbotsford Pies, and another administration is appointed by the AFL to continue the real name going forward.
Will the players also make a risky jump into an unkown competition or will they stay where their income is guaranteed?
So perhaps a handful of players make the jump and the administration, which team will the majority of the fans follow? The old Collingwood magpies or the new Abbotsford Pies?

A superleague almost killed off rugby in this country, the same would happen to football. A stupid idea with no real thought gone into it.

 

[Demonheart]

Or several others.

Super League damn near killed rugby league and it's still recovering. AFL's strength is even more clearly the rabid commitment of the clubs' supporters - no-one looking at it sanely would think cutting most of them out of the picture and thinking people will join one of the newly minted franchises would be a good idea.

heh, totally agreed. Anyone supporting the superleague concept hasn't considered how it would actually work, it would be doomed to fail, at best.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Untill the AFL itself is affected by the downturn, they will keep propping up the failing clubs.

Surely GC is off now??

10 Superleague team comp would be perfect
Adelaide Sharks
Perth Pirates
Fremantle Clippers
Collingwood Zebras
Carlton (cant think of Blues alternative)
Essendon Jets
Sydney Storm
Brisbane Cyclone
Port Adelaide Thunder
Melbourne Tigers (Richmond, Melb) Although Melb not a rich club they are in to allow use of MCG.

How would a Sydney Storm/Brisbane Cyclone/Port Adelaide Thunder be any more succesful than the existing clubs?

 

[StringyDog]

What a scam.

Vic teams getting shafted at the dome and Port are having a cry??

Let them die.

If you did some research you would find out that Port also has a very poor stadium deal.

I've often wondered just what straw it will take to break the camel's back, and for WC, Adelaide, Collingwood & Essendon to say amongst themselves "**** this, lets go start our own Superleague", and invite who they want.

Because it's a fair bet that it wouldn't be a 16 team league.

1) Is that supposed to sting? To be insulting? I cant say that I know too many 'franchise' club supporters that it affords anything other than a laugh to. It simply makes you look small minded.

2) The viability of such a comp would come down to TV rights. If WC, Adelaide, Essendon and Collingwood left to form their own competition, took Brisbane and Sydney with them, there would be enough interest for the TV rights to not be insignificant.

As several posters have pointed out you seem to be a little slow. The AFL owns the naming rights to every club. If a new league was formed all those clubs would have to change their names, identities and throw away all history and tradition, do you really think supporters and members of these clubs would allow that to happen. Take a straw poll at the footy at a Collingwood Essendon game of who wants to start a new league, change their names to Abbotsford Pies and Pascoe Vale Trams, throw history out the door, change jumpers, colours, etc etc You would get beaten to a bloody pulp. Let me say this again just for you as you seem a little slow; T-H-E A-F-L O-W-N-S T-H-E N-A-M-I-N-G R-I-G-H-T-S.

 

[Geoffa32]

How would a Sydney Storm/Brisbane Cyclone/Port Adelaide Thunder be any more succesful than the existing clubs?

In Port's case it would be independent of the SANFL.

Brisbane do all right.

Sydney I see your point. But with less teams chasing sponsorship dollars they should survive.

The AFL's main problem is too many teams in a small market. There is little global coverage of our sport. That is what sponsors want. My superleague is smaller with the aim of less competiton for resources.

 

[greennick]

I think your right, whats really worrying is how are things going to be if you go through an extended period without success?

I am certain if Melbourne had won a flag as recently as 04, we would not need any assistance.

For sure, it seems Melbourne supporters are much like Ports, they like winners!! Some people have an issue with that, I think most teams have that element, some just a little more than others. I think with a side like WC, it is hidden because we have outgrown our stadium, so we are always sold out.

 

[Genesis67]

How can you be so sure?

Because TV stations dont really give a rats about football clubs or competitions. They give a rats about advertising exposure. Were Sydney and Brisbane to go along with the Superleague, each of the key markets is covered for exposure by the new Superleague. Where would C9's interest be? In a newly formed competition with exposure in each major city? Or in an existing competition with dominant exposure in one city (Melbourne)? Bit of both methinks.

 

[Genesis67]

If you did some research you would find out that Port also has a very poor stadium deal.






As several posters have pointed out you seem to be a little slow. The AFL owns the naming rights to every club. If a new league was formed all those clubs would have to change their names, identities and throw away all history and tradition, do you really think supporters and members of these clubs would allow that to happen. Take a straw poll at the footy at a Collingwood Essendon game of who wants to start a new league, change their names to Abbotsford Pies and Pascoe Vale Trams, throw history out the door, change jumpers, colours, etc etc You would get beaten to a bloody pulp. Let me say this again just for you as you seem a little slow; T-H-E A-F-L O-W-N-S T-H-E N-A-M-I-N-G R-I-G-H-T-S.

I'm aware of that. As I mentioned back in my first post, it's simply a case of wondering "what if?" Apparently you missed that.

It would be interesting to see what ratio of Vic team supporters v non-Vic team supporters would follow their team, name changed, to such a new league. I suspect you would be right, that the number of Vic team supporters would be low. The interstate team numbers would be intriguing.

 

[Geoffa32]

I'm aware of that. As I mentioned back in my first post, it's simply a case of wondering "what if?" Apparently you missed that.

It would be interesting to see what ratio of Vic team supporters v non-Vic team supporters would follow their team, name changed, to such a new league. I suspect you would be right, that the number of Vic team supporters would be low. The interstate team numbers would be intriguing.

As a Crows supporter I would.

Port supporters did in joining the AFL.

Would still be the same club, just different name and different entity structure. Which is exactly what Port did in joining the AFL. You could use the place names, just change the mascots. I dont think the AFL can own the jumper designs, as there are many variants of AFL jumpers in leagues across Australia.

 

[FOOOOTY]

For sure, it seems Melbourne supporters are much like Ports, they like winners!! Some people have an issue with that, I think most teams have that element, some just a little more than others. I think with a side like WC, it is hidden because we have outgrown our stadium, so we are always sold out.

Had Melbourne not been so big back when we were last succucessful i doubt we'd be around in our current form nowadays, its been a long slow demise to being one of the shitkickers of the comp, and i agree with what you say about WC. Freo and Adelaide are also in that situation, thats whats so disturbing about Port.. SA is a footy mad state and they should comfortably support 2 teams without seeing much drop off in support due to poor years.

I really wonder howmuch that 119 point loss to Geelong in the GF has to do with all this, having experienced 88, and 00 i know that theres a big difference to being beaten in a GF and being humiliated in one.

 

[Genesis67]

As a Crows supporter I would.

Port supporters did in joining the AFL.

Would still be the same club, just different name and different entity structure. Which is exactly what Port did in joining the AFL. You could use the place names, just change the mascots. I dont think the AFL can own the jumper designs, as there are many variants of AFL jumpers in leagues across Australia.

As did many Fremantle supporters. The Docker's are simply an amalgamation of South Fremantle and East Fremantle, two existing WAFL club's with very long and proud footballing histories.

 

[finn]

Re: Port tell league: we'll go broke without handout

SANFL Crowds 2005-2008

2005 Total: 303,354 (2,974 ave.)
2006 Total: 309,874 (3,228 ave.)
2007 Total: 322,935 (3,165 ave.)
2008 Total: 362,209 (3,773 ave.)

"Seem" to be going up, base on a relatively small sample size...

mainly due to the fact that the sanfl has more of the traditional football that people like.
plus the price is very good - around $8 per adult and minmimal (i think $2) per child.
the sanfl has also done some fairly intense marketing and is relatively savvy with its game programming - it tends to program around port's and adelaide's games if possible. also its double header finals system at adelaide oval is a belter.

 

[Roosurgence]

It would be interesting to see what ratio of Vic team supporters v non-Vic team supporters would follow their team, name changed, to such a new league.

Collingwood don't even want to change their jumper, so good luck getting them to change their name

I'm sure the VFL would lick their lips at the prospect of a new Super League. I could see a lot of the current Melbourne fan base going back to support their clubs in an expanded VFL comp and not give two shits about a Super League.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Well if the shoe was on the other foot ( Crows in the sh1t ) I'd be pretty sure there would be much hilarity down at Alberton.

However, us Crows supporters are above such behaviour, and I for one hope that Port fight their way through this, as they are an integral part of footy in Australia. And I hope once they have fought their way through this, the Crows will continue to smash the bastards at every turn.

There's this place called Bay 13

 

[PowerForGood]

Guess what everyone.

The AFL owns the naming rights to every team in the AFL...






.... for only 2 years after they disband from the competition. Truth.

Superleague can work, there's just not enough profit in it to justify the risk.

The real issues are that the AFL has exclusive rights to all the major football grounds in Australia, the sponsorship and cash is local, not international, and (the biggie IMO) player contracts revert to the AFL if a team leaves the AFL or folds - you can't take your players with you.

 

[snrub]

Re: Port tell league: we'll go broke without handout

Correct and I have been saying it for a while. The AFL has stupidly focussed on developing dead markets whilst it has totally ignored the fragile state of the game in South Australia, a traditional football stronghold.

The scary part of that is the AFL has based the West Sydney expansion on the success of the 2 team town example of Adelaide.

 

[MarkT]

First of all Port have been on a knife's edge financially for some time. As the second entrant and being the club most loved to hate, they were always up against it. Unlike Freo who had a large geographically distinct base and a couple of teams to draw from, Port really needed to be the first SA team to get significant traction before the Crows came into being.

None of the helps now. At least some of their supporters who keep calling for a cull in Victoria on financial support grounds might be a bit more circumspect.

Secondly, on the super league arguments, I think it can definitely work if done correctly. The AFL commission is what is behind the AFL and the clubs ultimately can control the commission makeup if they have the will. Hell they can probably change the constitution if they want to.

There are at least three ways certain clubs could achieve what might amount to a super league. Firstly by taking over from within and secondly by taking everything of value from the AFL. The AFL claim to own the rights, logo's etc. Ignoring that this may be disputable, if the clubs walked what would the AFL be enforcing and against who? It basically means a body with a TV deal it can't honour with networks who don’t want it honoured has to fight an expensive action on behalf of the remaining clubs which presumably wouldn't have a whole lot of money to splash around. Who would be fighting for what?

The third way is the easiest. They squeeze the finances and ensure the commission culls. You can't equalise the finances without the support of those who contribute the finance.

None of that is to say it's a good idea though.

Now back to the start, would Port be part of this super league?

They serve the home town rivalry purpose but is it the way of serving that purpose?

 

[snrub]

Re: Port tell league: we'll go broke without handout

I dont understand the comment that Port are the first Non-Vic club to ask for a handout/assitance from AFL.

WCE went broke in first few years, is a superclub now though
Brisbane have had salary cap assistance.
The AFL basically owns Sydney
Freo had some troubles, not sure the AFL helped them at all though.

Port is the first to take money from this particular assistance scheme which is about 2 years old.

 

[snrub]

Wow, just wow.

Why would Hawthorn merge? And what happened to Geelong?!

Do some research into which clubs are stable prior to listing your 'ideal league'

Probably should look at a map first. North-East and South-West ??? WTF ???

 

[greennick]

I love how you guys think that when you joined it was the 'beginning'

By "this competition" I meant "the AFL" as a nationalised competition, not a suburban football league. I think I already made it pretty clear in my post before I understand the origins of the competition, including why we were asked to join it. To be fair though, I really don't give a shit about what went on before we joined. I didn't follow the VFL and I was never going to.

And that is the whole point, when we joined it was not the start. We tacked on to a local competition. Because of this, there are still a ridiculous amount of teams in one locality. I don't think it will ever be seen as a truly national competition in the Northen states because of this. It is a poorly planned, tacked together competition, with too many barriers for teams to move, new teams to join and too many shared revenues propping up the crap teams. This means it will be a long, long time before the competition properly sorts it shit out.

 

[snrub]

In Port's case it would be independent of the SANFL.

Brisbane do all right.

Sydney I see your point. But with less teams chasing sponsorship dollars they should survive.

Wait a minute, didn't we just double the number of teams chasing sponsorship dollars? And especially in Sydney and Brisbane where supporters would have to choose between the Lions and the Cyclones or the Swans and the Storm.

Or do you expect the AFL will just roll over and allow this to happen?

I think football fans would rather watch the elite players who are tied to AFL contracts playing in the best stadiums for the team names and colours we all recognise, rather than all new team names, colours, second grade players and playing at local showgrounds. But good luck with that.

 

[nut]

Seriously where the #$%K is all the money going??????? Average clubs turn over is around 20-30 million... the players get 7 million add 3 million for the football department. 10 x 16 = 160 million

7 million people pay to watch the game X $30 dollars average ticket price.
Add to that various sponsorship deals and a 100 million dollar TV deal.

Thats close 320 million dollars to pay 160 million dollars...

The stadiums obviously have to get paid but seriously where is the money going?

Surley there is enough money in the game to ensure that we dont have to hear about a side going broke every $%^KING 5 minutes.