possible trades for Tyson Stenglien?

[larrikin]

Incorrect. The NUMBER ONE role of a CHB is to negate their opponent.

Maybe 20 years ago. Many teams now set up their attack through CHB - Cornes at Port being the perfect example. Why do you think Jako was rated so highly at West Coast?

 

[spindoctor]

Maybe 20 years ago. Many teams now set up their attack through CHB - Cornes at Port being the perfect example. Why do you think Jako was rated so highly at West Coast?

Because he was able to shut down an opposition CHF day in day out and provide rebound when necessary. We have great running backs - Torney, Begley, Hart, Reilly Bassett. Our backline is our main strength. McGregor passes off to these guys, which stops him leaving his opponent loose and open to getting done on the rebound - much as McGregor exposed Cornes as failing to do in the last Showdown. McGregor took advantage of Cornes' unaccountability and completely pantsed him, a large part of why the Crows won. McGregor as a CHB doesn't do that - he has plenty of other players he can pass off to who provide run.

 

[bunsen burner]

Incorrect. The NUMBER ONE role of a CHB is to negate their opponent. McGregor does this week in, week out. Cornes is more of a flanker and sometimes doesnt even have an opponent, while McPharlin is very good, but still gets beaten on the rebound at times.

Wakey wakey, hands of snakey. McGregor is good but you're kidding yourself if you think he has been better than Cornes and McPharlin over last two years.

ps look up the word 'delusional' in the dictionary.

 

[larrikin]

Because he was able to shut down an opposition CHF day in day out and provide rebound when necessary. We have great running backs - Torney, Begley, Hart, Reilly Bassett. Our backline is our main strength. McGregor passes off to these guys, which stops him leaving his opponent loose and open to getting done on the rebound - much as McGregor exposed Cornes as failing to do in the last Showdown. McGregor took advantage of Cornes' unaccountability and completely pantsed him, a large part of why the Crows won. McGregor as a CHB doesn't do that - he has plenty of other players he can pass off to who provide run.

Forget your a Crows fan and tell me honestly, who would you rather have in your side - Cornes, McPharlin or McGregor?

 

[theorangeapple]

gives the crows boys a break, mcgregor is about the only half decent player they have who plays KPP.

the guy is a good quality AFL footballer but will never be an all australian or be a guy the opposition will worry about too much pre- game.

 

[spindoctor]

gives the crows boys a break, mcgregor is about the only half decent player they have who plays KPP.

the guy is a good quality AFL footballer but will never be an all australian or be a guy the opposition will worry about too much pre- game.

Get your hand off it. If McGregor has their CHF, they will always worry about it because he is always successful. Your own heroic ex-coach Mick Malthouse said he should be All-Australian full-back. And coming from a team where the laughable McDougall is your premier KPP, I wouldn't be luaghing too much at ours.

And honestly, as a CHB, I would rather have McGregor. As a player, maybe the other two, but for different roles. If I were picking the position of CHB, McGregor without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Mead]

Get your hand off it. If McGregor has their CHF, they will always worry about it because he is always successful. Your own heroic ex-coach Mick Malthouse said he should be All-Australian full-back. And coming from a team where the laughable McDougall is your premier KPP, I wouldn't be luaghing too much at ours.

In terms of both performance to date and potential, McDougall >>>> any tall forward on your list, although admittedly its a tough comparison to make given that the crows don't actually have any key forwards on their list. Perhaps it would be helpful to pop the Rd 12 Adelaide v West Coast tape in before throwing stones about kpps? McGregor the vaunted stopper took on McDougall and Hansen rotating through CHF and they kicked 6.3 between them..

McGregor is a decent player in good form but if you think he's the best CHB going around then you've had a bit too much of the Adelaide tap water.
He's not even the best CHB in South Australia.
If you have trouble with that concept, I suggest you post a thread on the main board to the effect that McGregor is the best CHB in the league. When the laughter stops, come back.

 

[spindoctor]

Chad Cornes is not the best CHB in SA. That's laughable. He has been beaten so many more times than McGregor this season. By McGregor himself, in fact.

Clearly you're a dumb noob who knows nothing about our list if you think we have no key forwards. Hentschel is a better player than McDougall any day of the week, earlier in his career Perrie the way he's playing at the moment, is a better player than McDougall, and even when he's not playing that well, McDougall isn't consistent either - Christ, McDougall will put together a half of solid football then disappear. That he hasn't kicked more than 4 goals in a game, and that only twice, is a telling statistic.

Fergus Watts, given another season or so, will kill McDougall as a key forward, and Scott Welsh...well at least he actually kicks goals...more than the less than 1.5 McDougall averages...after struggling with injury in the first part of the season he has already kicked more goals than your precious McDougall. In his last 11 games since returning from injury, Welsh has kicked as many goals as McDougall has all season...in a team going poorly as well. And they both play as leading full-forwards. Funny about that.

And Mark Stevens...while he may never play again now, he is 10000 times better than McDougall will ever be.

McDougall, for a top 10 pick, is a flop. He is producing nowhere near what is expected, even now he is only an average KPP.

 

[Altum Volantes]

McDougall, for a top 10 pick, is a flop. He is producing nowhere near what is expected, even now he is only an average KPP.

Who's just turned 21 and just racked up game number 30.

Looked, sling mud all you like, I think I was pretty reasonable, I like McGregor - he's a good solid player and a fine CHB but maybe we need to put this discussion to a wider audience?

Do you mind if I put poll on the main board asking for opinions on who the better footballer and more damaging CHB is out of say, Leppa, McPharlin, Harley, Cornes, McGregor and say, Matt Maguire (because lets face it, the Saints fans will just crash it and bang on about him anyway)?

Might be interesting results.

 

[jess-jess]

Chad Cornes is not the best CHB in SA. That's laughable. He has been beaten so many more times than McGregor this season. By McGregor himself, in fact.

Clearly you're a dumb noob who knows nothing about our list if you think we have no key forwards. Hentschel is a better player than McDougall any day of the week, earlier in his career Perrie the way he's playing at the moment, is a better player than McDougall, and even when he's not playing that well, McDougall isn't consistent either - Christ, McDougall will put together a half of solid football then disappear. That he hasn't kicked more than 4 goals in a game, and that only twice, is a telling statistic.

Fergus Watts, given another season or so, will kill McDougall as a key forward, and Scott Welsh...well at least he actually kicks goals...more than the less than 1.5 McDougall averages...after struggling with injury in the first part of the season he has already kicked more goals than your precious McDougall. In his last 11 games since returning from injury, Welsh has kicked as many goals as McDougall has all season...in a team going poorly as well. And they both play as leading full-forwards. Funny about that.

And Mark Stevens...while he may never play again now, he is 10000 times better than McDougall will ever be.

McDougall, for a top 10 pick, is a flop. He is producing nowhere near what is expected, even now he is only an average KPP.

and people on you board were getting stuck into eagles fans for having a bias view... i understand people are bias towards their own players but is there any need to rubbish others in the process, particularly when it's unfounded.

i'll compare Doogs and Welsh

Welsh in his last 10 games has averaged
3.2 goals
4.6 marks
9.7 possessions a game

Doogs has averaged
2.4 goals
5 marks
9.6 possessions

on pure stats, Welsh has averaged more goals over the last 10 games. However he is 26 and played 115 AFL games, Doogs is 21 and has played 31 AFL games. You'd expect an experienced player (both in age and games played) to have the kind of impact Welsh has. On the other hand, there arent many player in the competition at Doogs age and with his experience (or lack of) that would produced similar stats. He's in his first full season and only just starting to deliver on his potential. Given time, he'll mature into a very good full forward.

As for cosistancy, over the last 10 games Doogs has scored
1 goal: 2 times
2 goals:3 times
3 goals:4 times
4 goals:1 time

for a player playing his 21st to 31st AFL games, they are very impressive stats and supporters of any club who had a young player producing like that would be pleased.

As i said on your board reguarding the wirra/stenglien situation, i don't think there's any need to rubbish other players to prove a point. generally i've found most posters on the crows board to be reasonable in their observations and are quite knowledgeable on footy. Clearly from your above post, your not one of them.

 

[larrikin]

Chad Cornes is not the best CHB in SA. That's laughable. He has been beaten so many more times than McGregor this season. By McGregor himself, in fact.

Clearly you're a dumb noob who knows nothing about our list if you think we have no key forwards. Hentschel is a better player than McDougall any day of the week, earlier in his career Perrie the way he's playing at the moment, is a better player than McDougall, and even when he's not playing that well, McDougall isn't consistent either - Christ, McDougall will put together a half of solid football then disappear. That he hasn't kicked more than 4 goals in a game, and that only twice, is a telling statistic.

Fergus Watts, given another season or so, will kill McDougall as a key forward, and Scott Welsh...well at least he actually kicks goals...more than the less than 1.5 McDougall averages...after struggling with injury in the first part of the season he has already kicked more goals than your precious McDougall. In his last 11 games since returning from injury, Welsh has kicked as many goals as McDougall has all season...in a team going poorly as well. And they both play as leading full-forwards. Funny about that.

And Mark Stevens...while he may never play again now, he is 10000 times better than McDougall will ever be.

McDougall, for a top 10 pick, is a flop. He is producing nowhere near what is expected, even now he is only an average KPP.

Mate I'm trying to help you, but you are sounding like a clown......

McDougall has been the focal point of a side that has won 7 of the last 8.

Ask any supporter who watches 8 games a week what the think of McDougall - I think you'd find he's very highly rated.

 

[Streaker]

Chad Cornes is not the best CHB in SA. That's laughable. He has been beaten so many more times than McGregor this season. By McGregor himself, in fact.

Clearly you're a dumb noob who knows nothing about our list if you think we have no key forwards. Hentschel is a better player than McDougall any day of the week, earlier in his career Perrie the way he's playing at the moment, is a better player than McDougall, and even when he's not playing that well, McDougall isn't consistent either - Christ, McDougall will put together a half of solid football then disappear. That he hasn't kicked more than 4 goals in a game, and that only twice, is a telling statistic.

Fergus Watts, given another season or so, will kill McDougall as a key forward, and Scott Welsh...well at least he actually kicks goals...more than the less than 1.5 McDougall averages...after struggling with injury in the first part of the season he has already kicked more goals than your precious McDougall. In his last 11 games since returning from injury, Welsh has kicked as many goals as McDougall has all season...in a team going poorly as well. And they both play as leading full-forwards. Funny about that.

And Mark Stevens...while he may never play again now, he is 10000 times better than McDougall will ever be.

McDougall, for a top 10 pick, is a flop. He is producing nowhere near what is expected, even now he is only an average KPP.

Good luck with your team of stars. Maybe we will see you in the finals next year.

 

[Mead]

Interestingly enough, on Talking Footy a couple of weeks back, Gary Ayres was asked if he were coaching what uncontracted player he would be most interested in, and his immediate answer was Andrew McDougall.

Spindoctor, you're embarassing yourself. If you think a 188cm, 26 year old Scott Welsh counts as a key tall forward, then.. well, you're precisely as much of an idiot as thought you were prior to your last post. If you have any doubts about that, shift your parochial toss fest to the main board, and you will have supporters from 15 teams laughing at you rather than just the one. First up, try the McGregor v Cornes v McPharlin thread.

In fact, better yet, just shift to any board rather than this one, and find somewhere where you can sit down and have a quiet flog and figure out why it is that the crows are cellar dwelling despite their 22 gun AA players. You've established yourself as an utter cretin, and any amusement factor from said cretinism ceased several posts ago. You're tedious, and I'm ashamed of myself for wasting time responding to you. Won't happen again.

 

[dasler]

spindoctor is defined by the dictionary as one who likes to spin bull******** in an effort to talk their team up

 

[conVINCEd]

Good luck with your team of stars. Maybe we will see you in the finals next year.

I enjoyed the game last year.

Seriously, I'm very happy with McGregor as our CHF. He doesn't offer the drive that the likes of Cornes and McPharlin offer but does the job defensively and we have enough running defenders to cover the fact that he doesn't give the run of Leo Barry.

As for the Stenglein trade, I'm not sure what will happen. Tyson wouldn't want to see us being ripped off, but he does want to go home. We may have to accept a second rounder although there might be more to the deal.

Not sure if Jericho would be available. I don't think he would leave willingly and he has come along way considering he was playing in the SANFL reserves earlier this year.

 

[bluechampion]

I know complicated multi trades don't work, but I was just thinking...

Stenglein wants to go back to WA
Wirrpunda may want to go back to VIC.
Ottens may want to go back to SA.
Hay may want to go back to WA.


Wirrpunda to Hawthorn.
R. Lonie to Hawthorn.
Callan Beasy to Hawthorn

N. Thompson to Richmond.
Michael Braun to Richmond.

D. Gasper to Collingwood.
Burton to Collingwood.

Ottens to Adelaide.
Fiora to Adelaide.

Hay to West Coast.
Stenglein to West Coast.

Paul Johnson to Carlton.

---

West Coast
Lose:
Braun, Wirrpunda and Johnson.
Gain:
Hay, Stenglein.

Hawthorn
Lose:
Thompson and Hay.
Gain:
Wirrpunda, R. Lonie and Beasy.

Richmond
Lose:
Gaspar, Fiora and Ottens
Gain:
Thompson and Braun.

Adelaide
Lose:
Stenglein, Burton.
Gain:
Ottens, Fiora.

Collingwood
Lose:
R. Lonie.
Gain:
Gaspar, Burton.

Carlton
Lose:
Beasy
Gain:
Johnson

Actually... having written this out... it's insane...

 

[larrikin]

West Coast
Lose:
Braun, Wirrpunda and Johnson.
Gain:
Hay, Stenglein.

Why on earth would we want to do that

Braun for Stenglein straight up is a reasonable trade, but then Wirrpunda for Hay and throwing in Johnson?

We lose out big time.

 

[94_Eagles]

Braun and Wirra are in career best form. Hay is so not. Stenglein is good but not worth getting rid of Braun and Wirra for.

 

[bluechampion]

Look, I admit, it's insane. However, Wirra may want to leave. And Braun is victorian, so if he was going to go anywhere, Victoria might be the place. And with Johnson - he was a Carlton supporter as a kid, and... do you really think you'll keep him?

 

[corporal]

Otten & Fiora for Thompson & Braun..

No way in buggery

Besides why would the Hawks trade way their spine in Thompson & Hay for a bunch of average small running halfbacks of which they have a load anyway (Wirra is ok however his hamstrings would be of a worry and Joel Smith is very similiar anyway)

 

[spindoctor]

Fianlly! A WCE supporter who doesn't think Wirrpunda is anything more than an average small running half back?

Funny that dasler, Mead and co. say I'm guilty of bull********, yet these guys talk up average players like McDougall like he is the hottest young key forward in the comp, and that Wirrpunda is still a star. Who cares whether Welsh is 188 cm or 197 cm you stupid fools? Fact is, he plays the same position as McDougall, full forward. So comparing their outputs is completely fair. You were saying none of our key forwards are as good as McDougall. And I was able to refute that simply by showing that our full forward kicks more goals in less games. Done.

Well I also hit back against your Gary Ayres quote on McDougall, by quoting a much more reputable coach - Mick Malthouse - who called McGregor the best CHB in the competition. Your pathetic attempts to try and trump him with Cornes and McPharlin fail because you keep saying 'oh, do a poll on who is the most ATTACKING, who is the best NATURAL footballer'. I never disagreed on these things. I said his number one role is negating, and he is close to the best at that in the competition. Cornes and McPharlin are very, very good, but they sometimes forget they're supposed to negat ttheir opponent as well as being fancy. The opposition CHF is arguably the most important player in the team if they are playing well.

And if you think negating is 'so 20 years ago', and providing run is more important than negating, you are stupid and ignorant and should go and watch soccer.

 

[Portia]

West Coast fans, you have witnessed the outpourings of the typical Crows supporter. My condolences.

 

[Mr Q]

Fianlly! A WCE supporter who doesn't think Wirrpunda is anything more than an average small running half back?

I think you'll note that this "WCE supporter" has the word "Richmond" written next to their name. Don't let that stop you though.

Oh, and don't you think that as Eagles supporters we'd be quite well judged to pick the best between the Crows, Dockers and Power CHBs? Its not like we have anything more than an academic interest. If we still end up ranking the Dockers' CHB better than yours - despite being the Dockers CHB - there's a fair chance that he actually is, and that you're just a little biased.

 

[West Coast Fan 123]

Stenglien would struggle to get into the team atm and even if he didnt he wouldnt plays as big a role as a player like Wira or even Brauny. So I reckon its not worth going out of our way to get somone we dont need. If we're gunna trade for any ready made players we need more tall defenders.

 

[larrikin]

Funny that dasler, Mead and co. say I'm guilty of bull********, yet these guys talk up average players like McDougall like he is the hottest young key forward in the comp, and that Wirrpunda is still a star. Who cares whether Welsh is 188 cm or 197 cm you stupid fools? Fact is, he plays the same position as McDougall, full forward. So comparing their outputs is completely fair. You were saying none of our key forwards are as good as McDougall. And I was able to refute that simply by showing that our full forward kicks more goals in less games. Done.

I don't recall anyone saying that McDougall was a superstar, but there's very little doubt he will BECOME an outstanding footballer. Welsh is ok, actually probably a solid AFL footballer, but is the only attacking option in an average team and will always receive alot of the footy up forward.

The big advantage for McDougall over Welsh is just that - he's big (and quick). He creates a contest every time and creates an aerial contest for our small forwards to structure around - something we didn't have for the second half of last year and the first half of this year.

Well I also hit back against your Gary Ayres quote on McDougall, by quoting a much more reputable coach - Mick Malthouse - who called McGregor the best CHB in the competition. Your pathetic attempts to try and trump him with Cornes and McPharlin fail because you keep saying 'oh, do a poll on who is the most ATTACKING, who is the best NATURAL footballer'. I never disagreed on these things. I said his number one role is negating, and he is close to the best at that in the competition. Cornes and McPharlin are very, very good, but they sometimes forget they're supposed to negat ttheir opponent as well as being fancy. The opposition CHF is arguably the most important player in the team if they are playing well.

Ok admitted - McGregor is the best blanket in the competition. Some of us like a bloke who can actually do somethuing theirselves.

And as for the Poll, no-one mentioned rebound or attacking - just ask the question - who is the best CHB in the league. McGregor wouldn't come top 3.

And if you think negating is 'so 20 years ago', and providing run is more important than negating, you are stupid and ignorant and should go and watch soccer.

You, sir, are an idiot. Good day