Autopsy Post Game - Pies 94 def by Hawks 118

[TheGreatGrundy]

What a miseable day:
1) buried my best dog ever, she was 13 years old;
2) I know now, we (pies) hopeless.

doesnt get much worse really

My sympathy for you and your dog. I know how it feels and how important a dog can be to your life. RIP.

 

[Toecrusher]

Welcome aboard..I think Roosy will be our number 1 target.

Our recruiters can go after him. With our record, we'll probably sign him to a 5 year deal to play back pocket and appoint Sanderson as coach.

I have no faith in our decision makers.

 

[Mukesh]

We were in it today until Goldy went off. Then the backline stresses just told too heavily. They beat us up around the stoppages and then when Darcy went off we played the whole last quarter without a CHF and a CHB. Grundy getting beaten for the first time this year was also significant. Only 8 more weeks and all the haters will have their way and then we'll really see what THEY can do. Change is neccessary, change is good. Whinging on the other hand.....its just not the Collingwood way.

You could argue we've been playing all year without a real CHF or CHB.... The debate over Bucks ignores one thing... fundamentally he just doesn't have the cattle.

 

[frizzle]

You could argue we've been playing all year without a real CHF or CHB.... The debate over Bucks ignores one thing... fundamentally he just doesn't have the cattle.

You think he has had no say in the clubs decisions to bring in the likes of White, Mayne, Lynch, Russell, Young, Armstrong etc over the years? Or to trade out the likes of Cloke, Dawes, Heater etc? Every trade or free agent signing would be signed off by the senior coach. Some of them were good calls like Howe, Varcoe, Dunn etc. Wells is a jury out at the moment.
But it's Bucks list now. There are no more excuses because every single excuse has pretty much been used up already. We need to forget the coaches name & focus on what is best to pull us out of the crap we are now in. Giving a coach a contract extension after 6 years in the job when you are sitting 15th is not going to do that. In fact it will just sentence us to more of the same. We can't put up with that for another year or two.

 

[Mukesh]

You think he has had no say in the clubs decisions to bring in the likes of White, Mayne, Lynch, Russell, Young, Armstrong etc over the years? Or to trade out the likes of Cloke, Dawes, Heater etc? Every trade or free agent signing would be signed off by the senior coach. Some of them were good calls like Howe, Varcoe, Dunn etc. Wells is a jury out at the moment.
But it's Bucks list now. There are no more excuses because every single excuse has pretty much been used up already. We need to forget the coaches name & focus on what is best to pull us out of the crap we are now in. Giving a coach a contract extension after 6 years in the job when you are sitting 15th is not going to do that. In fact it will just sentence us to more of the same. We can't put up with that for another year or two.

No arguement from me...our recruitment of key position players has been woeful over the last decade...

 

[JB1975]

Yeah, huge disparity in the quality of the clearances and capacity to retain the footy beyond the clearance in any meaningful way.

Hawks weren't quite as surgical from the centre as Port Adelaide last week, but hurt us out of the middle a whole lot more than we hurt them. Treloar tries, and JDG made a difference, but otherwise we're not getting value for possession.

The reasons aren't clear, or they are many:
- Need bigger bodies;
- Need more effective taps;
- Need a smarter set up;
- Need mids who read opposition ruckman better.

 

[cleomenes]

How did he have a bad game? 19 possessions, 7 marks and 5 tackles. He didn't have a great game by any means, but he is an outside player who relies on service which we sucked at yesterday. He is not a high disposal player and even so is playing consistent football. His last 4 weeks have been very consistent so i'm just struggling to see how there should be mass calls to see him dropped. In response to your first point, there is a lot of talking here hating on our players lately. Not just calling for them to be dropped. The word Vanilla seems a favourite at the moment.

I don't think there is any call to drop him. His problem this week was that his disposal, usually a strength, was awful. But then, so was Pendlebury's. Aside from the umpiring clangers, and we actually got a goal from one of them, surprisingly, it was that old bugbear the kicking that was the story. Until our players can actually make the simple passes, get handballs to the outside, and not kick across goal when it is time to slow the game down (as opposed to when it is time to attack) we will continue to lose these kinds of game.
Unlike many, I don't see problems with our game tactics. Our personnel look OK, with the exception of the defence. Goldsack's injuries have robbed us of the strong fast centre half back, we gave away our best small defender, and we have still to find a maxwell replacement. So we need a tall fast defender above all. Melbourne's Frost for instance.
Aside from this, all we can do is persevere, and hopefully it will come together next year.

 

[Greening Magic]

My Post

Can't remember the 70's 80's 90's? Probably not. We were the laughing stock at various stages for various reasons, and wait for it, will be again.

Your Post quoting me and your response:
'Can't remember the 70's 80's 90's?'

70s and 80s we were always in contention, after 90 we hungover and were shit til 2000 on

Please quote me accurately in future please. Conveniently left out bolded bit for your own convenience.
Laughing stock for losing Grand Final after Grand Final in the 70's early 80's. If you weren't around let me tell ya it was tough going. Tougher than now.
Laughing stock for being broke and a rabble with the Ranald McDonald group and their subsequent failure in the 80's.
Laughing stock in the 90's for being broke and ordinary on field.
Carry on.

 

[Maggie5]

Not sure if clear in this pic but sitting on level 2 this drove me crazy. Our players were back to minding space, standing 10m away from their opponents or letting them get away completely. Don't think we have any Bolts in our team. Forwards were dragged too far upfield and defenders minded space.

If I could see it, why couldn't the coaches if the players were too dumb to think for themselves.

 

[TradeDraft]

Not sure if clear in this pic but sitting on level 2 this drove me crazy. Our players were back to minding space, standing 10m away from their opponents or letting them get away completely. Don't think we have any Bolts in our team. Forwards were dragged too far upfield and defenders minded space.

If I could see it, why couldn't the coaches if the players were too dumb to think for themselves.

View attachment 388561

Noticed that too and we are very Stagnant.

Bucks just seems to go back to this Gameplan that Sucks and does NOT Work.

Bucks thinks Space is more Damaging then a Actual Player

 

[obleex]

As sarcastic as this may sound - did Ramsay actually touch the ball?

I don't recall him even getting near the thing, and if he did, he didn't do anything memorable with it.


Also, barring a few really nice marks in the last quarter, Langdon was (and is) shit.

 

[Carringbush2010]

My Post


Your Post quoting me and your response:
'Can't remember the 70's 80's 90's?'

Please quote me accurately in future please. Conveniently left out bolded bit for your own convenience.
Laughing stock for losing Grand Final after Grand Final in the 70's early 80's. If you weren't around let me tell ya it was tough going. Tougher than now.
Laughing stock for being broke and a rabble with the Ranald McDonald group and their subsequent failure in the 80's.
Laughing stock in the 90's for being broke and ordinary on field.
Carry on.

Yeah I was born in 70 (that fateful year) and still remember the one's that got away in 77, 79 & 81 (21 pts up at 3 qtr time!). Disagree it's tougher than now - at least then we were contending certainly from 77 to 81 and again from 89 in between wasn't so good for memory but 90 was euphoria! So I wouldn't have called us a laughing stock in an in field sense - certainly not like now but that's just my opinion.

Lastly apologies for misquoting - was not the intention

 

[Carringbush2010]

& focus on what is best to pull us out of the crap we are now in. Giving a coach a contract extension after 6 years in the job when you are sitting 15th is not going to do that. In fact it will just sentence us to more of the same. We can't put up with that for another year or two.

Well we don't know for sure until we extend the contract; but I would happily agree with you that it is highly unlikely we'll improve if we sign him. Sign him or sack we are going to have to put up with another dark 2 or 3 seasons because if we go the path of a new coach we'll need time for the group and the new guy to gel IMV. You could argue "what about Bevo" well let's be honest that was an exception to the rule

 

[regpies]

Did you even watch the game yesterday? The Hawks played as badly as any other team we've played this year, they're not a good side at the moment, we are just worse. Our structures are way too easy to break down. Almost every coach in the league has worked out how to cut us up easily in transition.

Everyone here thinks we are supposed to play perfect footy and never lose a game. This board wouldn't be so miserable if some people had a reality check.

All the angst comes from people thinking at the start of every year thinking we should be undefeated premiers. We were only going to be a 6-8 team at best.

 

[ady42]

Could someone explain to me how Lynden Dunne gets picked ahead of Ben Reid, and what does Buckley or selection committee see in Jackson Ramsay?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Toecrusher]

You could argue we've been playing all year without a real CHF or CHB.... The debate over Bucks ignores one thing... fundamentally he just doesn't have the cattle.

Fundamentally, he has the list he and his footy department built.

I don't think my employer would be too happy if I took charge, changed the staffing arrangements and systems of work, that took us from number 2 in our field, to being close to the worst. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be getting a contract renewal.

Obviously the AFL is a high performance industry, and as much as I would like to be involved, I know I don't belong there. Neither does most of our footy department.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Could someone explain to me how Lynden Dunne gets picked ahead of Ben Reid, and what does Buckley or selection committee see in Jackson Ramsay?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hi ady42 , it's an excellent question, but one that has been discussed extensively in many other threads (along with other permutations, including Scharenberg). I'm gonna by to merge your post into the post game thread

 

[4#Didak#4]

I don't have time to focus on all the negatives so I am going to focus mainly on the positives.

Loved DeGoey's game. Thats what we know he is capable of. Looked composed and is clearly a midfielder. Please lets stop this forward nonsense. He won the ball contested, on the outside, clearances, delivered inside 50. He was clearly our best player. Just want him to back that up now.

Josh Thomas showed he wanted it and that makes up for the fact he may not be as polished as others. Watching Josh Thomas made me realise that other Collingwood players around him don't want it as much. I hope he can fulfil his potential after a horrid few years.

I liked Mason Cox's game although no doubt he will have had his critics. He has work to do but he was our most dangerous forward especially when we kicked it to his advantage (which is almost never). He probably should have got a few free kicks too. Structurally he makes this team look better and we look more like scoring as he makes the defense react and have to do something other than zoning and swallowing our inevitable poor kicks inside 50.

People have been harsh on Langdon, but he has been out of the game for a long time. He is a few games back and that last quarter showed some glimpses of his first year form. Backing his judgement and intercept marking, this comes from confidence and he will get better.

The negatives were many, but seeing our midfield get destroyed like that was a worry, despite DeGoey having his best game. Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom & even Pendles were all down on the day with only DeGoey stepping up to fill the void.

Our defense was also horrible and that has to come from the selection table. I cannot see the logic of not playing Reid and Scharenburg on the weekend. It took a lot of bite out of our backline, the Hawks could afford to sit on Howe knowing the rest of them have no rebound ability at all. Somehow we have managed to dismantle the only thing that has worked OK this year - our defense.

 

[Mukesh]

I don't have time to focus on all the negatives so I am going to focus mainly on the positives.

Loved DeGoey's game. Thats what we know he is capable of. Looked composed and is clearly a midfielder. Please lets stop this forward nonsense. He won the ball contested, on the outside, clearances, delivered inside 50. He was clearly our best player. Just want him to back that up now.

Josh Thomas showed he wanted it and that makes up for the fact he may not be as polished as others. Watching Josh Thomas made me realise that other Collingwood players around him don't want it as much. I hope he can fulfil his potential after a horrid few years.

I liked Mason Cox's game although no doubt he will have had his critics. He has work to do but he was our most dangerous forward especially when we kicked it to his advantage (which is almost never). He probably should have got a few free kicks too. Structurally he makes this team look better and we look more like scoring as he makes the defense react and have to do something other than zoning and swallowing our inevitable poor kicks inside 50.

People have been harsh on Langdon, but he has been out of the game for a long time. He is a few games back and that last quarter showed some glimpses of his first year form. Backing his judgement and intercept marking, this comes from confidence and he will get better.

The negatives were many, but seeing our midfield get destroyed like that was a worry, despite DeGoey having his best game. Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom & even Pendles were all down on the day with only DeGoey stepping up to fill the void.

Our defense was also horrible and that has to come from the selection table. I cannot see the logic of not playing Reid and Scharenburg on the weekend. It took a lot of bite out of our backline, the Hawks could afford to sit on Howe knowing the rest of them have no rebound ability at all. Somehow we have managed to dismantle the only thing that has worked OK this year - our defense.

Oh I think they made a deliberate decision to sit on/tag Howe, it wasn't an accident. Consequently I think we found out why he wouldn't be a serious threat as a forward... But yeah..Schazz instead of Ramsay would have made sense..

 

[Glenalta Magpie]

Oh I think they made a deliberate decision to sit on/tag Howe, it wasn't an accident. Consequently I think we found out why he wouldn't be a serious threat as a forward... But yeah..Schazz instead of Ramsay would have made sense..

Ramsay was unsighted and gave us no run, although I say that with no idea of who he played on, he was either a mile off his man or he and his opponent fell down a hole because I hardly saw him on the tv.

Butttt we have so few options of mobile running defenders I can see why he was picked. I would see the argument as more Langdon or Scharenburg. I'm not a big fan of Langdon but he is more mobile than Scharenburg. Our list is so unbalanced it's ridiculous and I think that's where our selection woes stem from.

Up the other end I think we would have more luck in kicking 'chaos balls' in the new language or 'scrubber kicks' in the old into our forward line, eventually the variation of bounce with the oval ball would end up in our forwards hands more often than relying on our forwards to actually get some seperation or heaven forbid a pass actually hitting them when they do.

 

[Glenalta Magpie]

And whilst I'm on a one post roll. I love Bucks and hate the way some post on here about him but under his game plan we need to win general play 60/40 just to break even in games, it's just not working.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I don't have time to focus on all the negatives so I am going to focus mainly on the positives.

Loved DeGoey's game. Thats what we know he is capable of. Looked composed and is clearly a midfielder. Please lets stop this forward nonsense. He won the ball contested, on the outside, clearances, delivered inside 50. He was clearly our best player. Just want him to back that up now.

Josh Thomas showed he wanted it and that makes up for the fact he may not be as polished as others. Watching Josh Thomas made me realise that other Collingwood players around him don't want it as much. I hope he can fulfil his potential after a horrid few years.

I liked Mason Cox's game although no doubt he will have had his critics. He has work to do but he was our most dangerous forward especially when we kicked it to his advantage (which is almost never). He probably should have got a few free kicks too. Structurally he makes this team look better and we look more like scoring as he makes the defense react and have to do something other than zoning and swallowing our inevitable poor kicks inside 50.

People have been harsh on Langdon, but he has been out of the game for a long time. He is a few games back and that last quarter showed some glimpses of his first year form. Backing his judgement and intercept marking, this comes from confidence and he will get better.

The negatives were many, but seeing our midfield get destroyed like that was a worry, despite DeGoey having his best game. Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom & even Pendles were all down on the day with only DeGoey stepping up to fill the void.

Our defense was also horrible and that has to come from the selection table. I cannot see the logic of not playing Reid and Scharenburg on the weekend. It took a lot of bite out of our backline, the Hawks could afford to sit on Howe knowing the rest of them have no rebound ability at all. Somehow we have managed to dismantle the only thing that has worked OK this year - our defense.

The dodgy wifi in this Cambodian backwater, or at least that in the premises I occupied on the day of our most recent loss, did not allow me to view or hear the game for longer than a few seconds at a time. As you may imagine, I didn't see much of the game, let alone comprehend it. I wasn't there, but I can readily accept your version of events, and will temporarily make it my own.

Frankly, I don't understand why De Goey hasn't been played as a mid, Cox hasn't been given more opportunity up forward (he will if Moore is to be out 3 weeks), why Maynard hasn't been played further forward, why Reid was dropped from a team deficient in talls, what Scharenburg still has to offer our VFL team that our AFL team couldn't use more right now, or why we haven't recruited a small forward or KPP (Moore excepted) in what seems an eternity.

Is Bucks committing coaching-hara kiri in slow motion? Obviously somewhere beneath this miasma of doubt lies a perfectly reasonable explanation! It is being suggested that applying more of the same - i.e a Buckley contract extension - will eventually prove the panacea to failure, and the club will again achieve greatness through prolonging mediocrity.

I liked the days when coaches experimented with player's positions. The day Barassi moved Brent Crosswell from full forward to full back in the 75 GF is forever stamped in my memory. Buckley seems unlikely to ever 'do a Crosswell' in his time at the club. He has however already made a Cromwellian impact on the playing group. We may never again have another rat in a pack or druggie on our list, but will purity deliver the ultimate success without a counter balance the darker provides? Is good going to win over evil, or is that just the stuff of fairy tales?

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Sobering thought, i could coach an AFL team to a flag if i was given enough time, we all could, great coaches generally show themselves within 2 years, i can't recall a premiership coach who regressed for 6 years straight, in fact i can't recall an AFL coach who regressed for 6 years straight, enough is enough.

 

[Glenalta Magpie]

Sobering thought, i could coach an AFL team to a flag if i was given enough time, we all could, great coaches generally show themselves within 2 years, i can't recall a premiership coach who regressed for 6 years straight, in fact i can't recall an AFL coach who regressed for 6 years straight, enough is enough.

Come now, Frank Gallagher doesn't have sobering thoughts, it's against his world view.

 

[Glenalta Magpie]

The dodgy wifi in this Cambodian backwater, or at least that in the premises I occupied on the day of our most recent loss, did not allow me to view or hear the game for longer than a few seconds at a time. As you may imagine, I didn't see much of the game, let alone comprehend it. I wasn't there, but I can readily accept your version of events, and will temporarily make it my own.

Frankly, I don't understand why De Goey hasn't been played as a mid, Cox hasn't been given more opportunity up forward (he will if Moore is to be out 3 weeks), why Maynard hasn't been played further forward, why Reid was dropped from a team deficient in talls, what Scharenburg still has to offer our VFL team that our AFL team couldn't use more right now, or why we haven't recruited a small forward or KPP (Moore excepted) in what seems an eternity.

Is Bucks committing coaching-hara kiri in slow motion? Obviously somewhere beneath this miasma of doubt lies a perfectly reasonable explanation! It is being suggested that applying more of the same - i.e a Buckley contract extension - will eventually prove the panacea to failure, and the club will again achieve greatness through prolonging mediocrity.

I liked the days when coaches experimented with player's positions. The day Barassi moved Brent Crosswell from full forward to full back in the 75 GF is forever stamped in my memory. Buckley seems unlikely to ever 'do a Crosswell' in his time at the club. He has however already made a Cromwellian impact on the playing group. We may never again have another rat in a pack or druggie on our list, but will purity deliver the ultimate success without a counter balance the darker provides? Is good going to win over evil, or is that just the stuff of fairy tales?

Whilst you raise some good points in Para 2 for mine the biggest problem is game style. Someone mentioned it earlier we are so easily out game styled it's not funny. Just put numbers behind the ball and hit us on the spread, we can't do the same because if it's a game of our spares against opposition spares we lose every time. It's like watching a bad sit com with the same plot line for every show. We lack creative half backs, that's an across the board fail, recruiting, development and coaching.