Training Preseason 2022/23 Talk & Media/Social Media etc.

[cleanhands]

I assumed the coaches box was just calling you up for your opinions?

And so they should

 

[Mutineer]

any of those rucks dropped?

You can push your negativity all you like but it won't change the fact ROB is a more than seviceable ruckman as it stands in the AFL today.

Did you check who was Witts and Goldstein's back up at their club...No you didn't.

 

[George Kramer]

You can push your negativity all you like but it won't change the fact ROB is a more than seviceable ruckman as it stands in the AFL today.

Did you check who was Witts and Goldstein's back up at their club...No you didn't.

It’s not my negativity. It’s the coaches, they dropped him and you know you don’t drop a senior player after one bad game, it was a run of games. He played a great game in his return and then stunk again. He didn’t finish top 10 besides playing a majority of games and is being a bottom team.

As for more than serviceable, “serviceable at best” unless you think MRB37 is making that up.

I’m confused what point you’re trying to make with Goldstein and Witts back up.

But cheerleader, you didn’t answer my question, any other leading rucks dropped?

 

[Schulzycrow]

Regards to the ROB Strachen dilemma. We have a number 2 pick that would with time and work become an excellent 1st ruck and almost another mid. That is where we should be focusing.

 

[George Kramer]

I don't think rucks impact outcomes to a massive degree.

ROB didn't impact our games much last year. The only reason that isn't expected is because he had impacted them in the previous 2 years.

There are 47 rucks currently on lists that have played AFL. ROB is ranked 8th amongst them after his disappointing 2022 season. So, unless this is a reflection on nearly every single team's recruiters, very few rucks are good enough to materially impact games. Which implies, the next ruck we select will likely not materially impact games, like more than 90% of all rucks drafted.

My point isn't that I think ROB played well in 2022. He didn't.

My point is that looking at ROB without reference to other rucks can give us a false hope that the problem is ROB, not rucks generally, and that drafting a new ruck will magically fix everything.

As for Stats Insider, which component of their approach don't you like? Only one of 3 components is Stats based. The rest is how they performed v other players in that game as judged by coaches and industry viewers.

Or, who do you think should be above ROB on that list and why (facts based)?

Isn’t it the best 20 games of their last 40? So it’s not just last year and how much weighting is there on their shit games?

What about shared rucks?
What about the injured rucks?
Coaches votes? We know how our coaches rated ROB this year.

As for giving me the number of rucks, cmon mate, you know a large number of these would be young developing ruckman and back ups.

18 clubs. Most only play one ruck, a small amount 2. Add the injured rucks and before you know it, ROB could easily be in the bottom half of all rucks.

 

[rabidcrow]

Regards to the ROB Strachen dilemma. We have a number 2 pick that would with time and work become an excellent 1st ruck and almost another mid. That is where we should be focusing.

And he may well be the one that takes over next year or the year after. Particularly if Gollant improves.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Mutineer]

It’s not my negativity. It’s the coaches, they dropped him and you know you don’t drop a senior player after one bad game, it was a run of games. He played a great game in his return and then stunk again. He didn’t finish top 10 besides playing a majority of games and is being a bottom team.

As for more than serviceable, “serviceable at best” unless you think MRB37 is making that up.

I’m confused what point you’re trying to make with Goldstein and Witts back up.

But cheerleader, you didn’t answer my question, any other leading rucks dropped?

Then you're thicker than I thought, in Strachan we have serviceable experienced full time ruck as back up, the other 2 clubs don't.

They have a mix of forward/rucks like Maboir Chol, Tristan Xerri, Charlie Comben, Coleman-Jones etc and inexperienced youngsters like Mac Andrew, Ned Moyle and Jacob Edwards. Pretty obvious North/Clarkson don't see their ruck/forwards as the answer to post Goldstein because they just rookied a 24 year old Hamish Free from the WAFL in the 2022 rookie draft.

Hamish Free | WAFL

wafl.com.au

 

[Mutineer]

Are you saying they are totally reliant on them

Where did I say that exactly?

Champion Data may not be the be all and end all but if you're downplaying their importance to gameday in match strategy you're sadly mistaken.

 

[cleanhands]

Where did I say that exactly?

Champion Data may not be the be all and end all but if you're downplaying their importance to gameday in match strategy you're sadly mistaken.

ditto
it was a question to you

 

[George Kramer]

Then you're thicker than I thought, in Strachan we have serviceable experienced full time ruck as back up, the other 2 clubs don't.

They have a mix of forward/rucks like Maboir Chol, Tristan Xerri, Charlie Comben, Coleman-Jones etc and inexperienced youngsters like Mac Andrew, Ned Moyle and Jacob Edwards. Pretty obvious North/Clarkson don't see their ruck/forwards as the answer to post Goldstein because they just rookied a 24 year old Hamish Free from the WAFL in the 2022 rookie draft.

Hamish Free | WAFL

wafl.com.au

Oh wow, you’re suggesting the only reason they weren’t dropped is because of a lack of back up after posting that they finished fourth in their B&F. Sorry for not grasping that’s what you were alluding too

Yes I get that makes me thick and you the bright one

And you still haven’t answered my question, any other leading rucks dropped?

 

[cleanhands]

I assumed the coaches box was just calling you up for your opinions?

Better me than you

 

[BucketsNj]

Perhaps we could move this very valid but now more than a little tedious discussion TO ANOTHER THREAD

 

[George Kramer]

Perhaps we could move this very valid but now more than a little tedious discussion TO ANOTHER THREAD

Fair enough. I’ll move on

 

[cleanhands]

Any word on how Edwards is going in his role at the Crows? Hope he is mentoring Rankine and really gets him cherry ripe for the season.

Was running laps with players on light duties, haven’t heard anything come out about his performance in his role

 

[Big Dub]

Isn’t it the best 20 games of their last 40? So it’s not just last year and how much weighting is there on their s**t games?

What about shared rucks?
What about the injured rucks?
Coaches votes? We know how our coaches rated ROB this year.

As for giving me the number of rucks, cmon mate, you know a large number of these would be young developing ruckman and back ups.

18 clubs. Most only play one ruck, a small amount 2. Add the injured rucks and before you know it, ROB could easily be in the bottom half of all rucks.

Yeah, the top 20 games of 40 isn't my favourite part. But the rankings look about right to my expectations. Much better than just looking at Stats or the eye test, anyway.

Injury won't effect the stats, as they work off of average data.

There will actually be 64 rucks on lists to start this season, with 44 who have played. Only 4 are considered elite (Gawn, Darcy, Witts and Nic Nat). That's a lot of investment for not much return. 34 of them will be 25 or over this season.

Only 30 were taken in the national draft with 18 taken inside the first 40 picks (for 2 elite rucks). So there is a bit of dart throwing.

But do we really want to be spending multiple top 40 picks on rucks to maybe get someone as good as ROB? or would we rather some other pieces that will actually impact games?

 

[Big Dub]

Perhaps we could move this very valid but now more than a little tedious discussion TO ANOTHER THREAD

Sorry, just saw your post.

Moving on.

(But in my defence, I'm bored and my wife is in a terrible mood).

 

[Scorpus]

Makes you wonder why all AFL clubs pay the big bucks to Champion Data for their stats and analysis and why the coaches boxes always have the laptops in front of them analysing the stats as they update.....

Don't they have no choice as there's no other stats provider?

 

[Tex Danger]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one.

We might also need to draft a few rucks to get a better ruck than ROB. 83% of rucks on AFL lists are worse than him.

I’m not arguing for it against ROB (I think he’s more than serviceable when on and last year was not his best form though) BUT any argument that says 8th is in the top 3rd and placed him as better than 83% his competition is missing the point

By that logic pretty any best 22 at any club us above average.

The argument should be based on 1st rucks, not all listed rucks in the afl.

 

[George Kramer]

Sorry, just saw your post.

Moving on.

(But in my defence, I'm bored and my wife is in a terrible mood).

And in mine I’m hungover and tired and struggling to move

 

[Bearded Clam]

I'm certainly aware that people around here like "how things feel" more than they like evidence.

But when it comes to footy using stats as evidence is fraught with danger.

stats sometimes tell you that Ben Keays is an equal, or better, player than Clayton Oliver!... mind you.. Some people round here actually think he is!

you want to talk about stats, ok.. here’s some.

for the last 3 years our main midfield grouping has been ROB, Sloane, Laird, Crouch and Ben Keays.. a huge majority of our midfield minutes have been handed to these lads. That’s a stat.

and the amount of football these 5 players get their hands on is phenomenal.. often (excluding ROB) they get 30-40 possessions EACH a game.. up there with the highest possession winning midfielders in the league. More stats.

Given the midfield is the teams engine room, where games are literally won and lost, this must bode well for the crows yeah?..

I mean, surely these so called “gun” mids, these leaders of our club, getting their hands on the ball, at the feet of this fantastic ruckman who such fxxking amazing stats, must translate to dominance over their opponents right?… accumulation of stats.

here’s some stats over the past 3 years this leadership group, this engine room, has delivered..
the most important stats of all..

2020 - wooden spoon
2021 - 15th
2022 - 14th

thats some real fantastic stats these guns, with their ruckman with “great stats”, have delivered.

Sheesh.. why actually watch the games when you can simply look at the stats at the final siren.. they’ll obviously tell you all you need to know about who was BOG right…

ROB was fxxkn garbage most of the year... fact. I couldn’t give a fxxk what the stats say. I witnessed it with my own eyes.

 

[crow2crow]

But when it comes to footy using stats as evidence is fraught with danger.

stats sometimes tell you that Ben Keays is an equal, or better, player than Clayton Oliver!... mind you.. Some people round here actually think he is!

you want to talk about stats, ok.. here’s some.

for the last 3 years our main midfield grouping has been ROB, Sloane, Laird, Crouch and Ben Keays.. a huge majority of our midfield minutes have been handed to these lads. That’s a stat.

and the amount of football these 5 players get their hands on is phenomenal.. often (excluding ROB) they get 30-40 possessions EACH a game.. up there with the highest possession winning midfielders in the league. More stats.

Given the midfield is the teams engine room, where games are literally won and lost, this must bode well for the crows yeah?..

I mean, surely these so called “gun” mids, these leaders of our club, getting their hands on the ball, at the feet of this fantastic ruckman who such fxxking amazing stats, must translate to dominance over their opponents right?… accumulation of stats.

here’s some stats over the past 3 years this leadership group, this engine room, has delivered..
the most important stats of all..

2020 - wooden spoon
2021 - 15th
2022 - 14th

thats some real fantastic stats these guns, with their ruckman with “great stats”, have delivered.

Sheesh.. why actually watch the games when you can simply look at the stats at the final siren.. they’ll obviously tell you all you need to know about who was BOG right…

ROB was fxxkn garbage most of the year... fact. I couldn’t give a fxxk what the stats say. I witnessed it with my own eyes.

fair call

 

[cleanhands]

But when it comes to footy using stats as evidence is fraught with danger.

stats sometimes tell you that Ben Keays is an equal, or better, player than Clayton Oliver!... mind you.. Some people round here actually think he is!

you want to talk about stats, ok.. here’s some.

for the last 3 years our main midfield grouping has been ROB, Sloane, Laird, Crouch and Ben Keays.. a huge majority of our midfield minutes have been handed to these lads. That’s a stat.

and the amount of football these 5 players get their hands on is phenomenal.. often (excluding ROB) they get 30-40 possessions EACH a game.. up there with the highest possession winning midfielders in the league. More stats.

Given the midfield is the teams engine room, where games are literally won and lost, this must bode well for the crows yeah?..

I mean, surely these so called “gun” mids, these leaders of our club, getting their hands on the ball, at the feet of this fantastic ruckman who such fxxking amazing stats, must translate to dominance over their opponents right?… accumulation of stats.

here’s some stats over the past 3 years this leadership group, this engine room, has delivered..
the most important stats of all..

2020 - wooden spoon
2021 - 15th
2022 - 14th

thats some real fantastic stats these guns, with their ruckman with “great stats”, have delivered.

Sheesh.. why actually watch the games when you can simply look at the stats at the final siren.. they’ll obviously tell you all you need to know about who was BOG right…

ROB was fxxkn garbage most of the year... fact. I couldn’t give a fxxk what the stats say. I witnessed it with my own eyes.

I’m glad I’ll have left this earth, when some uni graduate in stats and computer data is head coach, never played the game or has a feel for it

 

[cleanhands]

And in mine I’m hungover and tired and struggling to move

Ha ha the struggling to move is every day here

 

[Big Dub]

And in mine I’m hungover and tired and struggling to move

At least your pain was preceded with beer/ wine and (I assume) a good time. I just "breathed annoyingly"

 

[Scorpus]

Reilly O'Brien ranks 19 out of 40 in terms of getting a hitout to advantage at a given ruck contest of all players to attend more than 200 ruck contests last year