Training Preseason 2022/23 Talk & Media/Social Media etc.

[Tex Danger]

Most on this board wanted Dawson to be captain... including many who didn't think it would happen.

Yet the negative diatribe towards Sloane after stepping down & Doedee missing out on the captaincy continues.

I made it clear I was all for Dawson becoming captain & praise the club for making the right decision.

If they had continued with Sloane, then I would have been critical.

Some just love to whinge & some desperately trying to hold on to their negative narrative despite the club getting it right.

If sloane had have clearly stepped aside the same people would be saying (like they were before the announcement) that Nicks/the club couldn’t make the tough yet obvious call and criticized that. They did so the narrative surrounds sloane and that the decision was too late (despite it being clear it’s around now that most clubs finalist leadership positions- even Heppell May yet captain essendon despite saying he’s not married to the position and he’s been used as 1 example)

 

[George Kramer]

If sloane had have clearly stepped aside the same people would be saying (like they were before the announcement) that Nicks/the club couldn’t make the tough yet obvious call and criticized that. They did so the narrative surrounds sloane and that the decision was too late (despite it being clear it’s around now that most clubs finalist leadership positions- even Heppell May yet captain essendon despite saying he’s not married to the position and he’s been used as 1 example)

No

 

[1970crow]

What?..

as opposed to the conga-line of complete suckholes in here that can’t ever bring themselves to criticise the club or accept any criticism of it from others… no matter what the club does they continue to dote over it like a new parent..

forever looking upon the AFC like this..
View attachment 1605043View attachment 1605044

anyone would think we’d played finals every year for the past 5 seasons..

forgive some of us if we want to maybe wait till half way through the season to see how much really has changed..

the clubs spent the last 5 years bumbling it’s way from one disaster to the next.. all the while languishing at the bottom end of the ladder..

wouldn't bother with Carmo BC, he's another 'true supporter' that just waits for the club to make a decision so that he can support it. In a near 200 page thread on Rory, beginning at his extension, he's posted once and it had nothing to do with anything.

That said, and I'll say it again, I got Nix and the club wrong on this one, they made the decision they had to make and I 100% didn't think they had it in them. But anyone that thinks that they did this AND Rory selflessly stood down has rocks in their head. Only 1 statement can be true and based on everything Rory has said, it's definitely the former.

 

[Tex Danger]

No

If sloane announced he was stepping down and the club said (whether true or just as a comment out of respect) that ‘Rory was a great leader, this was his decsion and we respect him wanting to step aside to create a captain for the future he can mentor while still playing’ there wouldn’t be criticism here for us not making the call ?

 

[George Kramer]

If sloane announced he was stepping down and the club said (whether true or just as a comment out of respect) that ‘Rory was a great leader, this was his decsion and we respect him wanting to step aside to create a captain for the future he can mentor while still playing’ there wouldn’t be criticism here for us not making the call ?

No

 

[1970crow]

If sloane had have clearly stepped aside the same people would be saying (like they were before the announcement) that Nicks/the club couldn’t make the tough yet obvious call and criticized that. They did so the narrative surrounds sloane and that the decision was too late (despite it being clear it’s around now that most clubs finalist leadership positions- even Heppell May yet captain essendon despite saying he’s not married to the position and he’s been used as 1 example)

No, the same people would be commending Sloane for making the right call. It only becomes a club issue if the player fails to make the right call themselves. Two very different factors with the Heppell scenario in that the Bombers have a new coach and he wants as much time as possible to assess his leaders and that Heppell went on record saying he is happy to hand it over. Compared to us with a coach entering his 4th year and the captain saying he wanted to continue and remains adamant that he was still the right bloke in 2023.

Best way was for Nix and Rory to have the convo much earlier, Rory gets his day in the sun presser and then Jordan has his a few weeks later. Like how it happens pretty much every other time theres a captaincy change.

 

[1970crow]

If sloane announced he was stepping down and the club said (whether true or just as a comment out of respect) that ‘Rory was a great leader, this was his decsion and we respect him wanting to step aside to create a captain for the future he can mentor while still playing’ there wouldn’t be criticism here for us not making the call ?

no, because that's how it always happens, it's the norm. But what happens behind closed doors in lots of instances is obviously there's a convo where the coaches make it clear that there's going to be a change. It's exceedingly rare that the captain comes out pre-Xmas and actually says, 'I'm captain now and I plan to remain in the role throughout 2023'. It happened with VB, but doing it this way is very much the exception, not the rule.

And I'm not sure anybody is criticising the club. Rory has been criticised, but he's not the club.

 

[George Kramer]

No, the same people would be commending Sloane for making the right call. It only becomes a club issue if the player fails to make the right call themselves. Two very different factors with the Heppell scenario in that the Bombers have a new coach and he wants as much time as possible to assess his leaders and that Heppell went on record saying he is happy to hand it over. Compared to us with a coach entering his 4th year and the captain saying he wanted to continue and remains adamant that he was still the right bloke in 2023.

Best way was for Nix and Rory to have the convo much earlier, Rory gets his day in the sun presser and then Jordan has his a few weeks later. Like how it happens pretty much every other time theres a captaincy change.

That’s last point is very interesting and something I didn’t pick up.

Pendles announces it early, much later Moore appointed.
Ziebel announces it, later twin captains appointed.
Fyfe announces it, captain yet to be appointed

 

[George Kramer]

no, because that's how it always happens, it's the norm. But what happens behind closed doors in lots of instances is obviously there's a convo where the coaches make it clear that there's going to be a change. It's exceedingly rare that the captain comes out pre-Xmas and actually says, 'I'm captain now and I plan to remain in the role throughout 2023'. It happened with VB, but doing it this way is very much the exception, not the rule.

And I'm not sure anybody is criticising the club. Rory has been criticised, but he's not the club.

And it’s the same kudos Sloane is currently getting for being selfless and stepping down. Nicks has said the time is right for a new captain, Sloane wasn’t keeping it. There is nothing selfless about it, he can’t remain captain if Nicks doesn’t want him too.

 

[Crow till I die]

I have Roo just shading Macca, but I certainly appreciate the alternate view. Both amazing footballers and there's definitely a gap to 3rd.

D Jarman wasn't too bad

 

[1970crow]

That’s last point is very interesting and something I didn’t pick up.

Pendles announces it early, much later Moore appointed.
Ziebel announces it, later twin captains appointed.
Fyfe announces it, captain yet to be appointed

That's how it happens when the incumbent has genuinely stepped aside rather than had their hat in the ring until the coaches have made the decision. Rory remained captain and wanted to continue as captain up until the very nano-second that the coaches chose a new one. He didn't step aside, he didn't decide the time was right, he wanted to retain the role and was in it until he was told he wasn't.

Here's something equally as plausible as Sloane choosing to hand over the gig. 'Tom Doedee withdrew from captaincy discussion, instead supporting a Dawson led Crows outfit going forward'. Difference is that nobody makes up fables on behalf of the guy that is in the mix but doesn't get the job.

 

[1970crow]

D Jarman wasn't too bad

Context is important, mine is for total value on field in the tri-colours. Which brings longevity into the discussion. But yeh, him and Mods are in the second group with guys like Hart, Edwards, Smart despite not having the longevity as the others.

 

[Crow till I die]

Contrct is important, mine is for total value on field in the tri-colours. Which brings longevity into the discussion. But yeh, him and Mods are in the second group with guys like Hart, Edwards, Smart despite not having the longevity with us.

I personally would have shaun rehn in the top 5 best ever for his value to us..he was a colossus and the best big man we have ever had

 

[Carmo]

What?..

as opposed to the conga-line of complete suckholes in here that can’t ever bring themselves to criticise the club or accept any criticism of it from others… no matter what the club does they continue to dote over it like a new parent..

forever looking upon the AFC like this..
yone would think we’d played finals every year for the past 5 seasons..

forgive some of us if we want to maybe wait till half way through the season to see how much really has changed..

the clubs spent the last 5 years bumbling it’s way from one disaster to the next.. all the while languishing at the bottom end of the ladder..

You say that as tho all of the salt brigade would have some objective stance but they don't, if we finished 5 -8 they'll criticize that we need to bottom out to get good draft picks. Same if we'd finished 8to 12. We go down and get good draft picks and do a rebuild and we "languish"at the bottom. If we finished top 4 give seasons in a row then we'd be useless because we'd been unable to win a premiership. If we won 3 premierships it would still be poor cos other powerhouses have won 4.

Don't confuse astute criticism with unfounded permanent negativity.

 

[George Kramer]

You say that as tho all of the salt brigade would have some objective stance but they don't, if we finished 5 -8 they'll criticize that we need to bottom out to get good draft picks. Same if we'd finished 8to 12. We go down and get good draft picks and do a rebuild and we "languish"at the bottom. If we finished top 4 give seasons in a row then we'd be useless because we'd been unable to win a premiership. If we won 3 premierships it would still be poor cos other powerhouses have won 4.

Don't confuse astute criticism with unfounded permanent negativity.

Bullshit.

Had we had the years down the bottom and then made 5-8 we would have said, holy hell, the rebuilding is working and Nicks can coach.

What’s ironic about the lollipop sucking cheerleading brigade is you resort to having to make stuff up and lie about what we would do, “yeah but you’d say this, yeah but you’d that”. It’s always just guess work and nearly always wrong.

But we don’t need to do that with you lot, the evidence is there. We are stating fact, the lack of critical thinking is there for everyone to see. Even when we **** up there is crickets or mental gymnastics to try and justify it. Then there’s deflection “hey look at what those negatives would think next”. The irony is we are more balanced than you lot, we praise when it’s warranted. But when you’ve been a shit show there ain’t much to praise and a lot more to be critical about.

 

[StickerMan]

If sloane announced he was stepping down and the club said (whether true or just as a comment out of respect) that ‘Rory was a great leader, this was his decsion and we respect him wanting to step aside to create a captain for the future he can mentor while still playing’ there wouldn’t be criticism here for us not making the call ?

If Sloane did in fact step down so selflessly, why was this not announced much earlier, similar to Pendlebury?

The fact that it was all done at the same time suggests he was planning on continuing as captain and had to be given the tap on the shoulder.

I suspect the Club gave him enough time to control the narrative but there was a vibe that change was afoot within the Club's demeanor over the last 3-4 months. Rory couldn't read the tea leaves so it came to a head.

Either way, the right call has been made.

 

[Tex Danger]

If Sloane did in fact step down so selflessly, why was this not announced much earlier, similar to Pendlebury?

The fact that it was all done at the same time suggests he was planning on continuing as captain and had to be given the tap on the shoulder.

I suspect the Club gave him enough time to control the narrative but there was a vibe that change was afoot within the Club's demeanor over the last 3-4 months. Rory couldn't read the tea leaves so it came to a head.

Either way, the right call has been made.

I didn’t say he did. Im more focusing on the club aspect

i think you’re right, he was very happy and wanting to continue but we decided time was right to tap him on the shoulder.

‘’I also though don’t think he has to be dragged kicking and screaming. I think because he wanted to stay a candidate we let that run (he’s captain until hes not was the narrative from club recently) and he would have understood that and also with the ultimate decision.

 

[ftmch]

People in here constantly melting that Sloane is selfish and will NEVER stand down as captain, but suddenly he does and Dawson becomes captain and it's crickets

Surely you don't think this was actually Rory's call?

Forget how the club are dressing this up - that's just a respect thing to Rory (and fair enough). He got tapped on the shoulder though, nothing surer.

Sent from my SM-X800 using Tapatalk

 

[Mostyn]

If he goes Doedee over Burton was clearly the wrong call. Should I get Marty to comment?

You sure? Burton and a first round only got Hawthorn a mediocre half forward flanker ...

Reckon we'd be able to turn Doedee into something better than that!

 

[Mostyn]

With Burton the worry was over his injuries but he's been considerably more durable than Doedee.

Not just his injuries - there were worries about what it would mean for his speed and burst power.

Burton is a B- player. Doedee is better than that.

 

[Mostyn]

It’s all speculation at the moment. People are drawing conclusions from his infer later state training sessions in Geelong.

No, I think there's a few doubts about Doedee as an actual leader - he's more a "get along" kind of guy by many reports.

 

[George Kramer]

You sure? Burton and a first round only got Hawthorn a mediocre half forward flanker ...

Reckon we'd be able to turn Doedee into something better than that!

We wouldn’t have to trade Burton and have a quality player, unusual for our first rounders, yeah I know

 

[George Kramer]

Not just his injuries - there were worries about what it would mean for his speed and burst power.

Burton is a B- player. Doedee is better than that.

Burton is better than a B-, provides lots of versatility and if he was in our side your opinion would be different.


Doedee looked early on he would be a very good player but unfortunately injuries and strange match ups have meant we haven’t seen his best for a long time, so it’s hard to say he’s better and hasn’t produced better than Burton for awhile.

 

[Mostyn]

If sloane announced he was stepping down and the club said (whether true or just as a comment out of respect) that ‘Rory was a great leader, this was his decsion and we respect him wanting to step aside to create a captain for the future he can mentor while still playing’ there wouldn’t be criticism here for us not making the call ?

There are folks who are inventing things around this to be upset by - projecting motivations and inventing possible discussions.

You'd have to assume they'd do the same, no matter what happened.

If Sloane had made the announcement himself, it would have been evidence that the management actually still wanted him and that they're unable to make the best decisions for our club.

 

[George Kramer]

There are folks who are inventing things around this to be upset by - projecting motivations and inventing possible discussions.

You'd have to assume they'd do the same, no matter what happened.

If Sloane had made the announcement himself, it would have been evidence that the management actually still wanted him and that they're unable to make the best decisions for our club.

Another inventor