Training Preseason 22-23

[Bulldogs Legend]

Smiths bad kicks stand out so much because of how he gets them - often from a fast break that he has created from bursting into space from congestion, which is exactly the situation where a good kick can be extremely damaging. Those type of 'what if' situations are really memorable.

Exactly. stats on their own only tell part of the story

 

[gordo2016]

He's not my whipping boy, why the * would you say that?

He's a VERY good player, and could easily go to elite level but the two things holding him back from that are his defensive work at stoppage, and his shoddy disposal. He averaged 4.6 clangers and 6.7 turnovers from a ratio of 8.6 / 20.7 contested / uncontested possessions. You think that's anywhere near remotely good enough?

But just say yeah nah and some bullshit again.

Most of those turnovers would be when he is running flat chat trying to burst off the opposition. You try doing that yourself and see how you go hitting every target. Think you are a bit hard on him.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Tbh I think the media and general football commentators massively overrate Timmy due to his stats. We don’t rate anything else they say but when it comes to positives about Tim’s game we take it as gospel on here? I trust my own eye more than I trust people who obviously don’t even watch us play for the most part.

He just wasn’t anywhere near as good this past year as has been made out in the media. I absolutely love his traits and he very well could and probably should be one of the best ruckmen the game has seen and his best is ridiculously good. But until he can do it consistently and not get beaten up in a huge way by any avg campaigner over 6ft5 when he’s not at his best, then he’s just not in the question for best ruckmen. Yet.

I’m pretty confident this may be his year, but it remains to be seen

I also trust what I see with my eyeballs week in week out and those instruments told me that he was finally becoming the player we had invested so heavily in prior to his injury. Of course it's easy to draw a conclusion that his past year was overrated when judging English's season in totality. However, that just conveniently sidesteps the obvious effects that his concussion had in the weeks after his return. So "tbh" to suggest that anybody be it in the media or in here who thinks that English was having a a career best season that saw him in early AA contention prior to that inflection point is being duped by stats or dick riding media hacks is just wrong.

Am I suggesting he has become the games premier ruckman? Nope. Am I suggesting that his trajectory is pointing that way. Absolutely I am.

Everything remains to be seen.

 

[ScragCity]

Need more training pics. Wanna see the sweat glistening on their taut, virile bodies.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I also trust what I see with my eyeballs week in week out and those instruments told me that he was finally becoming the player we had invested so heavily in prior to his injury. Of course it's easy to draw a conclusion that his past year was overrated when judging English's season in totality. However, that just conveniently sidesteps the obvious effects that his concussion had in the weeks after his return. So "tbh" to suggest that anybody be it in the media or in here who thinks that English was having a a career best season that saw him in early AA contention prior to that inflection point is being duped by stats or dick riding media hacks is just wrong.

Am I suggesting he has become the games premier ruckman? Nope. Am I suggesting that his trajectory is pointing that way. Absolutely I am.

Everything remains to be seen.

I'm super excited about English this year. He was already huge in person final round last year and is clearly bigger again. Reckon he's at full size now. I honestly think injury is the only thing that could stop him being elite this year, especially not a concussion please, as he takes ages to regain his confidence after them, and he'salready had a few. Hopefully a suitable goat has been sacrificed with an appropriate ceremony to appease the injury gods.

 

[hatescaptcha]

I'm super excited about English this year. He was already huge in person final round last year and is clearly bigger again. Reckon he's at full size now. I honestly think injury is the only thing that could stop him being elite this year, especially not a concussion please, as he takes ages to regain his confidence after them, and he'salready had a few. Hopefully a suitable goat has been sacrificed with an appropriate ceremony to appease the injury gods.

English has the ability to be the All Australian ruck this year. Hopefully he can put a full season together and dominate like we know he can, for longer.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[MrChristo]

He already takes more marks (as many contested) and has more score involvements than peak Grundy.
(Already = last season).

If you break the season down, his first 8 games (before concussion) he out-posseses peak Grundy.

Hit-outs are lower (can't see HOTA unfortunately), but that's about it.

Peak Grundy is considered a top 5 (?) Ruckman of the last 20 years. (Haven't put a lot of thought into that, so happy to be debated), but I think the point stands.
English is already a gun and I think we all see that there's improvement on the way.

A couple of years injury free and he'll be absolute top tier of not out on his own.

 

[_Cerberus_]

I don't care to much for his hitout totals. Just as long as he breaks even and gives us as much Hit Outs to Advantage as his opponent, I don't care if he does not get 50 hit outs a game like peak Gawn and Grundy do. Commentators wet themselves over the most irrelevant stat in the game. Grundy had 60 hitouts and like 12 to advantage, English had 20 yet like 8 to advantage or something in one game. Just shows English was much more efficient in hit to advantage ratio. The real reason the best ruckman in the league are so, is because they go out and get 20 possessions around the ground, and actually have an impact outside the centre. Gawn is essentially another tall forward at times who kicks goals.

English has the traits that define the modern ruck man. If he can find some consistency, and use his size to dictate around the ground, it will be huge for us. Whether its giving us a tall option in the middle clearing the defence, dropping back or moving forward. Tall players that can actually get around in the air and on the ground are massive. Geelong is full of tall players that are mobile and can impact around the ground. Though they have no dominant tap ruck either, probably had worse than us at times, yet still always finished top four. Hawks didn't have an elite tap ruck man in their 3 flags. Nankervis isn't an A grade tap ruck man. Yet they all had impact around the grounds.

Just don't want him to concede 50 hit outs or be rag dolled as if he is to nice to fight back. At his height and size, where the art of touching the ball with your hand first should be simple. I never understood why his opponent would get 60 hit outs to his 20. Either his timing and technique was very poor, which is put on coaching, or he was intimidated by contact. I just want to see him finally be physical and mean. No longer be owned by his opponent, instead say "today I own you"

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Just don't want him to concede 50 hit outs or be rag dolled as if he is to nice to fight back. At his height and size, where the art of touching the ball with your hand first should be simple. I never understood why his opponent would get 60 hit outs to his 20. Either his timing and technique was very poor, which is put on coaching, or he was intimidated by contact. I just want to see him finally be physical and mean. No longer be owned by his opponent, instead say "today I own you"

I don’t think he’s ever been intimidated. He’s been outmuscled and has had to develop his technique but I think Tim is quite capable of being a giver instead of a receiver. There’s nothing simple about AFL rucking. His round the ground work is outstanding and hitouts will be the icing on the cake.

 

[Inside The Kennel]

Regarding Tim English, Bigfooty Bulldogs are going to salivate at his body metamorphosis over the off-season. His torso is now triangular and arms/shoulders broad and imposing. From a distance he and Lobb/Dolph Lundgren look like clones, while up close, he looks chiselled. The conditioning staff have clearly set a program that has him ready to take on the big boys, whillst not compromising his running capacity. Man crushes aside, he has arrived. Our Ruck Mount Rushmore is now complete: Schultz, Dempsey, Wynd, English

 

[Maverick Dog]

We all need to concede that Tim will never be a great tap ruckman. His timing is just not there. He can become adequate and he just needs to neutralise the contest more often than not against the elite. Just prior to his concussion this year he was elite in in everything except his ruckwork, but he was serviceable.

i much prefer a ruckman who can take 10 marks, 23 disposals, a couple of scoring shots and can run and carry that a ruck who is a liability around the ground. If Tim can stay injury free and break even the ruck contest he will be very close to AA this year.

 

[dogwatch]

Regarding Tim English, Bigfooty Bulldogs are going to salivate at his body metamorphosis over the off-season. His torso is now triangular and arms/shoulders broad and imposing. From a distance he and Lobb/Dolph Lundgren look like clones, while up close, he looks chiselled. The conditioning staff have clearly set a program that has him ready to take on the big boys, whillst not compromising his running capacity. Man crushes aside, he has arrived. Our Ruck Mount Rushmore is now complete: Schultz, Dempsey, Wynd, English

Leaving out Norm Ware does him a disservice.

He was a mobile ruckman who was quite tall at 193cm for the era. (At 1cm increase per decade that would equate to 201cm today).

Norman Ware - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Pugz89]

Regarding Tim English, Bigfooty Bulldogs are going to salivate at his body metamorphosis over the off-season. His torso is now triangular and arms/shoulders broad and imposing. From a distance he and Lobb/Dolph Lundgren look like clones, while up close, he looks chiselled. The conditioning staff have clearly set a program that has him ready to take on the big boys, whillst not compromising his running capacity. Man crushes aside, he has arrived. Our Ruck Mount Rushmore is now complete: Schultz, Dempsey, Wynd, English

It's interesting you say he's taken the next step physically, yet compare him to Lobb. Personally I don't think Lobb is that physically imposing, height aside. His physique isn't anywhere close to a Dean Cox, Brodie Grundy type ruck imo.

 

[ossie_21]

We all need to concede that Tim will never be a great tap ruckman. His timing is just not there. He can become adequate and he just needs to neutralise the contest more often than not against the elite. Just prior to his concussion this year he was elite in in everything except his ruckwork, but he was serviceable.

i much prefer a ruckman who can take 10 marks, 23 disposals, a couple of scoring shots and can run and carry that a ruck who is a liability around the ground. If Tim can stay injury free and break even the ruck contest he will be very close to AA this year.

Whilst against mainly witches hats, I watched the Eagles game at Optus Stadium from the luxury of a suite.

My mate who got me in is an Eagles fan, realist of where they were/are. I even pointed out to him, “tell me what other ruck could do that in a game” as Timmy got onto what I believe was a loose ball, then run and took a couple of bounces before kicking the ball forward. He was being chased by a “normal” sized mid at the time, who wasn’t really catching him.

Around the same time due to his influence on the game, I said to my mate that all we need to do (or what they don’t need to do) was kick it in his general direction. A few times the Eagles kicked long to a contest, Timmy floating back could mark easily. We needed an out? Oh kick it to the tall blonde bloke, yeah ok he’s marked it now, good play.

Totally agree as long as he halves the contest, we have the mids to take it to anyone. A lot of the time we lost control when Cordy/Bruce/Hannan needed a spell in the ruck, now having Lobb able to go in there when English is resting gives us someone who at least can halve the contest.

Sometimes he seems afraid to, but English at times easily out jumps the opposition ruck and gets a clear tap. A lot of it is mental with Timmy, but I think he’s ready to go to the next level. If you watch someone like Gawn closely, you’ll see at times their feet barely leave the ground. He uses strength and elite positioning to get a tap, without needing to jump. I’ve lost count of the number of times when English has front position in a throw in, looks behind him to see what the other ruck is doing, who then slip around him to get an easy tap at the front. He maybe now has the strength to do what Gawn does and just feel out, then hold them off and keep the prime position. For centre bounces or infield throw ups, he could outjump them, or maybe be strong enough to not need to jump in the air so much but can hold his position. This alone can make us 50%+ more effective, such as when Sweet played and whilst he wouldn’t do too much around the ground, he gave a contest which meant the opposition wasn't walking the ball out of the centre so easily and out sieve defence sat around wondering where their protection was.

 

[adogsfan5]

Great news re Timmy.
Him having a huge season is big for us. We’ve also now finally got a second ruckman, a disgusting hole we’ve had for far too long.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Leaving out Norm Ware does him a disservice.

He was a mobile ruckman who was quite tall at 193cm for the era. (At 1cm increase per decade that would equate to 201cm today).

Norman Ware - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I thought Peter Street was stiff.

 

[Pagnoccolo C]

The only attribute that I really want young Clarke to get from his brother is to be faster than a speeding bullet.

More powerful than a locomotive is okay too.

 

[dogwatch]

More powerful than a locomotive is okay too.

Steele Sidebottom and Jack Steele would be getting nervous.

But not Carlton. They've got Cripps tonight.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Leaving out Norm Ware does him a disservice.

He was a mobile ruckman who was quite tall at 193cm for the era. (At 1cm increase per decade that would equate to 201cm today).

Norman Ware - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Arthur Olliver another too. In the Australian Football Hall of Fame as well as our team of the century. He and Norm must have been a dream pairing as they could both play forward and kick goals.

 

[Golden_6]

I’ve noticed JUH hasn’t really bulked up at all and instead is incredibly fit and lean with a lot of focus on boxing training (which he obviously enjoys). Obviously he isn’t going to be asked to play as a genuine KPF with Naughton & Lobb so it’ll be interesting to see what sort of role he plays in the short and long term.

I wonder if he’s preparing himself or being asked to play a lot higher this season or whether it’ll be a mixture of deep forward and high half forward.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Are they back at training today?

 

[Hoges64]

Yeah nah
Speed will always impact disposal efficiency, sure he could improve but to an extent you need to take the good with the bad
But just keep the same bullshit again

Exactly. stats on their own only tell part of the story

Most of those turnovers would be when he is running flat chat trying to burst off the opposition. You try doing that yourself and see how you go hitting every target. Think you are a bit hard on him.

I'm happy to use last years stats to tell the whole story.

Considering the bloke got 8.6 contested possessions a game and has 4.6 Clangers (only averages 0.35 Frees Against so his clangers aren't coming that way) and 6.71 turnovers (league leader by a LARGE margin), he basically must not hit ANY target when running at pace. But he's also doing an awful lot of bursting off opposition that aren't there for his 20.71 UNcontested possessions per game. Basically a ratio of 2.5 : 1 Uncontested : Contested.

His disposal efficiency was 65.66%, which sits at 363rd of 441 players to have played 5 games or more (and within a handful of spots of known ball-butchers Patrick Dangerfield, Sam Powell-Pepper and Robbie McComb). So he either hits all his targets with short kicks / when he's moving "slowly" and misses them all when running at pace or, as the stats actually allude to, he gets a lot of uncontested ball, runs with it and butchers it. Or takes a mark, attempts a shorter kick, and butchers it.

So what will it be? What's the point in "bursting off your opposition" if you're just going to turn the thing over basically every time anyway. We all know that turnovers kill you in the modern game, and here we sit with the league leader but people are happy to give him a free pass "because he runs quick"? ****ing spare me.

But yeah nah, bullshit, hey? His kicking woes are overblown.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

I’ve noticed JUH hasn’t really bulked up at all and instead is incredibly fit and lean with a lot of focus on boxing training (which he obviously enjoys). Obviously he isn’t going to be asked to play as a genuine KPF with Naughton & Lobb so it’ll be interesting to see what sort of role he plays in the short and long term.

I wonder if he’s preparing himself or being asked to play a lot higher this season or whether it’ll be a mixture of deep forward and high half forward.

I think it depends on the player. Lloyd, Riewoldt and Hird were pretty good KPF's and none were bulked up like a Lockett or Josh Kennedy. It's still only season 3 for JUH, I can't think of any KPF's in the past that were built like tanks in season 3. That usually comes later as the body matures and strength overtakes agility.

 

[_Cerberus_]

As long as he is strong in the hips, mobile and strong in the air. I don't care if he is built like Mr Bean or Dolph Lundgren. Size doesn't always correlate to strength. It is bit of a balancing act, trying to build players up for senior football and 10kg plus gains, Without reducing their speed and movement. He looks in great shape as it is.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Are they back at training today?

Looking at some of the players socials on instagram, no. Think they return Wednesday