proof that the brownlow is flawed...

[magpie10]

Now im not complaining about cooney winning the medal, i'm talking about adam goodes. You would think that if goodsey polled 21 votes in the count it would be enough for you to say that he would win the B&F, right?

Wrong! He didnt even finish top 10 in their count last night. Jarred McVeigh won it and he only polled 4 votes. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24443605-19742,00.html#

It just goes to show the coaches know best and they reward players based on how well they play in that game, not how big their reputation is or if they've won two brownlows...

 

[lazy]

While I am first to admit that the white maggots are the last people that should be judging our most prestigious individual award your argument has a few cracks...

It was universally acknowledged that Gazza was best player this year. His coaches couldnt even vote him best player at his club

 

[Ground Work]

Simon Black polling over 20 votes in 12 rounds was a joke..

Adam Goodes polling so well is an absolute disgrace.

Adam Cooney winning the medal is just pure comedy.

Gary Ablett not polling against Collingwood, or getting 3 against Port,
or polling in the last game was a incomprehencible - same goes for Luke Hodge polling 2 votes.

Bryce Gibbs not winning, absolute travesty.

 

[magpie10]

While I am first to admit that the white maggots are the last people that should be judging our most prestigious individual award your argument has a few cracks...

It was universally acknowledged that Gazza was best player this year. His coaches couldnt even vote him best player at his club

Gaz probably lost the B&F because he missed 4 games.

 

[TheMase]

From an outsiders point of view, we can look at a players statistics or their influence on gameplay and say they are the 'best'.

However, from a coaching staff point of view, they give players certain jobs to do and would vote for them according to this. The umpires do not know what each players jobs are on the day, and therefore cannot rate them based on this.

This is not defending Adam Goodes, who probably had 5-10 too many Brownlow votes THIS year. There are many examples of players performing poorly in the Brownlow compared to their best and fairest (and vice versa).

 

[11sjw]

Bryce Gibbs not winning, absolute travesty.

You are kidding, right?

 

[Upgrayedd]

Consider switching Shampoo brand guys
Ild personally recommend

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Does this suggest that Goodes was doing the flashy Brownlow stuff but not the hard team stuff that the Swans required of him? I wonder exactly what role they expected of Goodesy this season. I would have thought that his Brownlow vote winning game is what the Swans love about him. You wouldn't expect him to get into the packs and dish it out, or to put a hard tag on an opposition player .... seems a little odd.

 

[BigBomber09]

Have a cry. Cooney was a desrving winner. It was a disgrace that hodge only got 2. obviously one of the best defenders all year. and yeh pretty bad goodesy got 21 or something.

Mark McVeigh wouldve got close. He missed 8 matches due to injury. And he polled 13 votes from 14 matches. He wouldve won if he wasnt injured. Such a consistent player. And he would have definetly won the club b&f.

I felt half sorry for Gaz. Its no like he has an arseh*le personality like fevola or anything. Good bloke and very shy. He lost everything. Premiership, Brownlow, Norm Smith, Club b&f. except for the AFL PA award.

 

[AG]

The B & F rewards consistency. The Brownlow rewards inconsistent brilliance. Not saying Cooney was inconsistent, but a player who had about 8 BOG's and plays crap for the rest of the season, has a chance to win it.
That's why players like Cross and Corey will always poll well in their B &F counts, they are two of the most consistent players in the competition, but they don't stand out like a Judd or Goodes to poll a 3 or 2 vote game in the Brownlow.
It surprises me how many people cry about the Brownlow every year, we all know how it works. So to the OP, why make a thread about something we already know. Unless this is your first year of following football of course, which it probably is.
Goodes = Incosistently Brilliant

 

[TheMase]

Goodes was injured in Round 15 against Hawthorn. There were 9 games after this time, where Goodes missed two matches.

He would have gotten quite a few votes for his 8 goal effort, but outside that I doubt he would have figured in voting.

In the Brownlow, most of his votes he received were prior to his injury (and suspension).

 

[Tedeski]

Now im not complaining about cooney winning the medal, i'm talking about adam goodes. You would think that if goodsey polled 21 votes in the count it would be enough for you to say that he would win the B&F, right?

Wrong! He didnt even finish top 10 in their count last night. Jarred McVeigh won it and he only polled 4 votes. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24443605-19742,00.html#

It just goes to show the coaches know best and they reward players based on how well they play in that game, not how big their reputation is or if they've won two brownlows...

Look! I'd have to agree with you wholeheartedly on this one. The umpires really have no idea when it comes to the best players on the ground. I guess they give the votes to the players that are in their face, but not necessarily the best players.

I gave up on taking the brownlow seriously when the umpires gave one to Buckley!!!

 

[skipper kelly]

Whats funny about the whole Goodes brownlow saga is that the experts on BF awarding votes in the BF Medal nearly agree with the umpires.

BF medal is based on 5,4,3,2,1. Russian converted this to the Brownlow system of 3,2,1 being the highest 3 voters and lo and behold A.Goodes got 14 votes and was the highest Swans player.

Thanks to Russian

 

[Corpuscles]

Completely different voting system at club level ( 5 coaches all rank top 5 out out of ten). Also a different perpspective

Cannot compare when all 5 players from one team gets votes every game!

The anomoly in brownlow is BOG is three times better than 3rd best! Often that seems to be the best for the losing side which, is some close games might mean if result reversed they might get the 3!!!

Also it is remarkable how either patches of flashy brilliance or excellent last quarters seem to attract memory of umpires, rather than sustained efforts or good first quarters.

 

[carsoutback]

1. Competition B&Fs are always voted on by the umpires in every single league from juniors on up. It's not an AFL policy, it's a tradition of our game.

2. Umpires have been under the hammer on everything for their failure to reward anyone other than midfielders, for giving votes to run and carry players, for being generous to those that don't backchat them, for rewarding those with red hair or even uniquely coloured boots................for about 60 years. Always laugh when someone finally claims to have proof of how flawed it can be! Mate, we know it already OK? But if it hasn't changed by now, I suggest it's not going to change.

3. Yes there have been inconsistencies over the years and even downright aberrations such as Goodes this year - but tell me the last Brownlow medallist who didn't have a great year? Go for the cheap shots if you like.

4. The Brownlow medal is here to stay, its format will never change, nor will its unpredictability at times. It is what it is, so take it or leave it.

 

[BigBomber09]

Agreed that there is different voting systems.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I gave up on taking the brownlow seriously when the umpires gave one to Buckley!!!

Buckley deserved a Brownlow .... maybe not when he did get one but at least at some point during his career.

He was brilliantly consistent for years when the Pies were not much chop but you don't get the BOG when your team loses so he didn't get his just rewards.

 

[Whispers]

Gaz probably lost the B&F because he missed 4 games.

How can you lose a B and F?

 

[Barwick17]

Simon Black polling over 20 votes in 12 rounds was a joke..

Adam Goodes polling so well is an absolute disgrace.

Adam Cooney winning the medal is just pure comedy.

Gary Ablett not polling against Collingwood, or getting 3 against Port,
or polling in the last game was a incomprehencible - same goes for Luke Hodge polling 2 votes.

Bryce Gibbs not winning, absolute travesty.

Hang on, Collingwood won by about 14 goals. What did GAblett do so well that would put him in the best players on the ground?

You are a fool

 

[magpie10]

The B & F rewards consistency. The Brownlow rewards inconsistent brilliance. Not saying Cooney was inconsistent, but a player who had about 8 BOG's and plays crap for the rest of the season, has a chance to win it.
That's why players like Cross and Corey will always poll well in their B &F counts, they are two of the most consistent players in the competition, but they don't stand out like a Judd or Goodes to poll a 3 or 2 vote game in the Brownlow.
It surprises me how many people cry about the Brownlow every year, we all know how it works. So to the OP, why make a thread about something we already know. Unless this is your first year of following football of course, which it probably is.
Goodes = Incosistently Brilliant

Because it happened yesterday and it is proof that the umpires have favourites. Its nice of you to make the assumption that its my first year of football, when i've been following footy since the day i was born.

And if you read my opening sentence, i clearly said that cooney was a deserved winner. Its the off season guys and nothing much will happen until monday (trade week) so be open to discussion

 

[magpie10]

How can you lose a B and F?

I apologise, Gaz didn't finish 1st in the voting of Geelong's B&F because he missed 4 games. You as a geelong supporter should know that he would've polled in almost all of those games

 

[magpie10]

Have a cry. Cooney was a desrving winner. It was a disgrace that hodge only got 2. obviously one of the best defenders all year. and yeh pretty bad goodesy got 21 or something.

Mark McVeigh wouldve got close. He missed 8 matches due to injury. And he polled 13 votes from 14 matches. He wouldve won if he wasnt injured. Such a consistent player. And he would have definetly won the club b&f.

I felt half sorry for Gaz. Its no like he has an arseh*le personality like fevola or anything. Good bloke and very shy. He lost everything. Premiership, Brownlow, Norm Smith, Club b&f. except for the AFL PA award.

Theres no doubting McVeigh's brilliance but you went too far on this occassion

 

[BigBomber09]

I did not go too far. He is brilliant. And wouldve have one the b&f and got close to the brownlow, 5 votes away or something. Such a key part of essendons midfield. Where was Swan on the brownlow he had a fantastic year and he didnt get up there? bit odd.

 

[JeffDunne]

There is a big difference in reviewing performance for a B&F - it's subjective.

The coaching staff will vote based on the instructions given to a player.

Kick 8 goals and let your defender run off you all day and you're not likely to poll too well in your B&F. However the umpires might give you 3 votes.

You're comparing apples with oranges in comparing B&Fs to Brownlows.

 

[Tedeski]

Buckley deserved a Brownlow .... maybe not when he did get one but at least at some point during his career.

He was brilliantly consistent for years when the Pies were not much chop but you don't get the BOG when your team loses so he didn't get his just rewards.

Ahh yes but we can't change the argument for the sake of Collingwoods favourite son now can we.

If Goodes is hammered for polling votes then surely to keep the argument balanced, one must question the charity part brownlow won by Buckley. He definitely polled votes in games that he should never have even been looked at. I was quite baffled at the time. That he was a great COLLINGWOOD player does not make the argument any diffent.

What the brownlow represents is that the players that win it are often players that have devastating bursts out of the middle or from stoppages which is where the umpires get a breather & a chance to watch on players activities. A player that can turn on the speed from a stoppage is eye catching.
Judd, Goodes, Cooney, etc....

Only reason Buckley has a share of the Brownlow is because that year he had NO teamates to take the votes off him in the winning games so the umpires would throw his name up.
Goodes was perhaps the same this year with no other standout players in that purple patch he had.

Remember he only polled 2 votes when he kicked 8 goals with a groin injury. Although a great effort, the 3 votes were given to Jude Bolton for his tough work in the middle.

But on this subject, depending on who one follows, we will always agree to disagree!!