Q lynch gone to pies

[Monkey King]

Eddie stated the Pies cant match the $1 million + being thrown around.

He was questioning how clubs like Carlton and Fremantle....with Judd, M.Murphy, Gibbs and Pav, Sandilands, Mundy, McPharlin etc can actually offer $1 million + for Cloke.

I know. Eddie is a total knob. Judd and Murphy and ... ummmm ... err ... Gibbs How the hell does that tie up a whole salary cap, particularly as it's been widely reported most of Judd's contract was already paid out through front-loading?

Facts are if the Pies can fit Pendles, Daisy, Swan, Reid, Shaw et al. under your cap and still offer Cloke $800k, then Freo and Carlton would face no drama at all finding him a million in theirs. Ed was simply having a stir, so don't go eating out of his hand too readily.

People need to actually realise that Cloke didn't sign to stay at the Pies for $1mil a season, just like Swan, Pendles and Thomas all didn't sign on for the kind of money they could of got had they left.

Yeah. Sure. Other clubs had to offer overs to get him away from the Pies and also to secure him under free-trade. In the end the Pies had to fold over the issue of 5 years and got him for probably the price they wanted over three years - about $800k. For Cloke that's a win, as he would otherwise have likely had his next contract downgraded heading to 30yo.

 

[livnixon9]

Yeah. Sure. Other clubs had to offer overs to get him away from the Pies and also to secure him under free-trade. In the end the Pies had to fold over the issue of 5 years and got him for probably the price they wanted over three years - about $800k. For Cloke that's a win, as he would otherwise have likely had his next contract downgraded heading to 30yo.

Even if Cloke is on $800 k, onwards 2014, he'll effectively only take $700 k of the salary cap as that will be his 10th season on the list. With TPP increases in the next few seasons, $700 k won't be a particulary high salary.

 

[johncitizen]

I am hungover.
A pie and sauce would go down nicely.

Having one right now with a beer

 

[doppleganger]

Ed was simply having a stir, so don't go eating out of his hand too readily.

Absolutely all he was doing....just interesting how oppo supporters think that a club like Carl supposedly offering Cloke $1mil is holding Collingwood over a barrell, and they would resultantly have had to up their offer....it simply doens't work like that.

Have people not looked at the actual state of the Pies list....after the top 20, it is basically full of 'promising kids;....it aint as if we have senior depth running around in the VFL.

Despite winning a premiership recently, there has actually been a very big list overhaul going on.

In the end the Pies had to fold over the issue of 5 years and got him for probably the price they wanted over three years - about $800k. For Cloke that's a win, as he would otherwise have likely had his next contract downgraded heading to 30yo.

MY guess is that nobody on these boards knows the actual $$ that Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Cloke, Reid, Beams etc actually signed on for.

The important thing is they were all retained, within the envelope that the Pies list management could afford, despite all the media hyperbole stating that they couldn't keep them all....that GWS would shake one out, that Cloke staying would force out a Reid or Beams, etc. None of it has happened.

I know. Eddie is a total knob. Judd and Murphy and ... ummmm ... err ... Gibbs How the hell does that tie up a whole salary cap, particularly as it's been widely reported most of Judd's contract was already paid out through front-loading?

Facts are if the Pies can fit Pendles, Daisy, Swan, Reid, Shaw et al. under your cap and still offer Cloke $800k, then Freo and Carlton would face no drama at all finding him a million in theirs. Ed was simply having a stir, so don't go eating out of his hand too readily.



Yeah. Sure. Other clubs had to offer overs to get him away from the Pies and also to secure him under free-trade. In the end the Pies had to fold over the issue of 5 years and got him for probably the price they wanted over three years - about $800k. For Cloke that's a win, as he would otherwise have likely had his next contract downgraded heading to 30yo.

This was Cloke's big contract, everything is currently in his fav, so fair enough he wanted the lengthiest contract he could get. As once he comes out of contract as a 28-29 year old it will be a downgrade. They dug their heels in and got relaxed conditions for the 5th year, good on them.

All of the figures swirling around are just guesses - $1mil, 800K, 600K, 700K nobody here actually knows.

The point is that the club already highlighted their stance on payments in 2011. Toovey and L.Davis tried to buck the system to get better deals. Toovey ended up staying for what the club could offer.

L.Davis ended up shopping himself around, then found out that NO club wanted him for the price he was hoping for and found himself out of the game.

If a Pies player disagree's with the clubs assessment of what they are worth, they can try and leave and get more elsewhere.....but the club, if managed correctly, will always have left some room to attract potential new recruits into the club also.

 

[Monkey King]

Even if Cloke is on $800 k, onwards 2014, he'll effectively only take $700 k of the salary cap as that will be his 10th season on the list. With TPP increases in the next few seasons, $700 k won't be a particulary high salary.

How many players can a club apply this to now? Is it still restricted to just a couple like the old veterans nominations, or have they lifted that now it's dropped to $100k flat? Either way $700k isn't massive, but it still well and truly qualifies as a high salary in the AFL. That he's logged this for 5 years was a big win for the Cloke camp.

 

[Mark_K]

i am pleased Collingwood have Lynch,they now have potentially the slowest forward line known in the history of modern footy.I am sure Carlton will secure a gun recruit who is not old and slow.

Ok

 

[Sam The Doc]

Having one right now with a beer

Hmm backing up could be interesting.

 

[johncitizen]

How many players can a club apply this to now? Is it still restricted to just a couple like the old veterans nominations, or have they lifted that now it's dropped to $100k flat? Either way $700k isn't massive, but it still well and truly qualifies as a high salary in the AFL. That he's logged this for 5 years was a big win for the Cloke camp.

And a big win for Collingwood. Get over it you didn't get your man.

 

[johncitizen]

Hmm backing up could be interesting.

ROFL works every time.

 

[Chewy]

Buddy, Rioli, Mitchell. Sewell & co and then Hawthorn are able to put Gibson & Burgoryne on $400 k / season and then sign Gunston. The same queries.

So you're agreeing with me then and saying the AFL salary cap is a crock of shit.

Besides, the Hawks weren't able to keep Josh Kennedy and Ben McGlynn when Sydney made them better offers. We lost a couple of players because of the salary cap. Has Collingwood ever lost a player to the salary cap?

 

[jimmy35]

So you're agreeing with me then and saying the AFL salary cap is a crock of shit.

Besides, the Hawks weren't able to keep Josh Kennedy and Ben McGlynn when Sydney made them better offers. We lost a couple of players because of the salary cap. Has Collingwood ever lost a player to the salary cap?

AA Leon Davis last year. We couldn't pay him what he wanted.

 

[Monkey King]

And a big win for Collingwood. Get over it you didn't get your man.

Typical little Eddie response. Get over what? I didn't want Cloke. DID NOT WANT!!! You're more than welcome to browse through the last month of my posting history to see that not getting your man is a relief for me.

IMO it's not a big win for Collingwood at all. It's a win, as if Cloke had left, you would have been hard to win another flag under Buckley's reign, but keeping Cloke keeps you in the chase. Having to commit to a reasonably sized contract for 5 years though isn't great and certainly detracts. No point burying your head in the sand over it. It also came off as so un-Collingwood, the way they always seem to have previously got players to sign for unders.

 

[doppleganger]

So you're agreeing with me then and saying the AFL salary cap is a crock of shit.

Besides, the Hawks weren't able to keep Josh Kennedy and Ben McGlynn when Sydney made them better offers. We lost a couple of players because of the salary cap. Has Collingwood ever lost a player to the salary cap?

It aint simply about money, it usually more about the opportunity to play.
Kennedy couldn't get a game ahead of Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Hodge in the midfield, he left to go to Sydney as it was going to further his actual playing career.

McCarthy left Collingwood last year, as proven he was a best 22 player in a weaker midfield, yet he couldn't get a regular gig at the Pies.
L.Davis wanted more $$ than the Pies were willing to offer...and found himself without a club.

Collingwood dont have much senior depth, Hawthorn still has guys like Gilham, Bailey who may want to look elsewhere to actually play footy.....cant see our kids like Ceglar, Seedsman, Sinclair wanting out just yet.

 

[Monkey King]

Absolutely all he was doing....just interesting how oppo supporters think that a club like Carl supposedly offering Cloke $1mil is holding Collingwood over a barrell, and they would resultantly have had to up their offer....it simply doens't work like that.

They did though. They had to increase the terms of the contract.

MY guess is that nobody on these boards knows the actual $$ that Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Cloke, Reid, Beams etc actually signed on for.

Of course. Just like no one on here would know the same for Judd, Murphy or Gibbs. It's just playing Eddie's game and pulling out names and asking the "how can they possibly" question.

The important thing is they were all retained, within the envelope that the Pies list management could afford ...

That's right as a Pies fans. Aside from Cloke, it seems you got all the others at a reasonable price despite loads of innuendo a couple of them were on the move. Who knows how it's going to affect future contracts, but for now you'd have to be feeling pretty satisfied.

 

[johncitizen]

Typical little Eddie response. Get over what? I didn't want Cloke. DID NOT WANT!!! You're more than welcome to browse through the last month of my posting history to see that not getting your man is a relief for me.

IMO it's not a big win for Collingwood at all. It's a win, as if Cloke had left, you would have been hard to win another flag under Buckley's reign, but keeping Cloke keeps you in the chase. Having to commit to a reasonably sized contract for 5 years though isn't great and certainly detracts. No point burying your head in the sand over it. It also came off as so un-Collingwood, the way they always seem to have previously got players to sign for unders.

So let me get this straight. If Carlton had succeeded in getting Cloke you would have been upset?

If this is how you think then you've no idea about anything football related.

Any coach in the AFL would welcome Travis Cloke to their club.

Number 1 for contested marks and 60 goal CHF not good enough for Monkey man.

 

[doppleganger]

It also came off as so un-Collingwood, the way they always seem to have previously got players to sign for unders.

The Cloke deal was about duration not $$$, Cloke wanted 5....Collingwood were only prepared to give 5 with some pretty heavy KPIs that needed to be triggered. Stand-off ensued.

Collingwood ease off on some of the KPIs, this appeases Cloke...contract signed.

$$$ weren't the issue, he was always only getting what Collingwood could manage to pay him, he now is more likely to get that for 5 years instead of 4....so a win to Cloke in that sense, but no difference to the actual list payments over the next couple of seasons.

Collingwood still protected in that is he goes well off the rails, the 5th year still aint officially locked in.

Cloke chose to negotiate with Collingwood through the media, hence the controversy....

 

[johncitizen]

Monkey King is also jealous of our Ed. We love him.

 

[Monkey King]

So let me get this straight. If Carlton had succeeded in getting Cloke you would have been upset?

If Carlton signed Cloke for $5m over 5 years I would have been disillusioned.

If this is how you think then you've no idea about anything football related.

The symptom of an unbalanced outlook.

And no, not jealous of Eddie in the slightest. Ed of a number of years ago was just terrific for your club, but IMO he's overstayed and a couple of his decisions have set you back and potentially even cost you a flag. You may love him ... so what? Carlton supporters loved Big Jack once too.

 

[Monkey King]

The Cloke deal was about duration not $$$, Cloke wanted 5....Collingwood were only prepared to give 5 with some pretty heavy KPIs that needed to be triggered. Stand-off ensued.

This really was increasing the terms of the contract. No bones about it.

Of course $$$ were the issue. Everything was about maximizing the total $$$ available in the contract. Length of contract and KPI's are central to that on both sides.

And yes. David Cloke appears to be a jack off doesn't he. Could have al been done behind closed doors, but I think the fact it's one of the best KPF's and Collingwood, mixed with Cloke Snr meant it was played out in the media. You'd have to be glad you don't have to deal with him for another 5 years or potentially never again wouldn't you?

 

[PieNSauce]

If Carlton signed Cloke for $5m over 5 years I would have been disillusioned.



The symptom of an unbalanced outlook.

And no, not jealous of Eddie in the slightest. Ed of a number of years ago was just terrific for your club, but IMO he's overstayed and a couple of his decisions have set you back and potentially even cost you a flag. You may love him ... so what? Carlton supporters loved Big Jack once too.

Eddie continues to be the most effective President in the league and the club continues to thrive and build under his presidency. Some loons still think that the succession plan was a mistake but at Collingwood they would be in an absolute minority. The suggestion that he has set the club back in any way is absolutely ludicrous unless you're talking about the extra administration it takes to manage 70000 members and take care of the best facilities in the league. In reality we will never know whether our 2010 flag was the direct result of the succession plan anyway. Many believe it was and most believe that in spite of Mick destroying that plan Bucks has already proven to be a more than adequate replacement in the face of issues that Mick never faced.

 

[Ted38]

Of course that's how they'll justify their failure but then that was pretty predictable.

Who? Damir.

 

[Tippaz]

i think he'd be better off at Carlton

 

[jonoman89]

The life of a Carlton supporter in the off-season:

Step 1) Player comes out of contract
Step 2) Media say Carlton is interested by default to sell papers
Step 3) Trade hardly ever eventuates

 

[jonoman89]

Pies have a nucleus of premiership players and are a better chance, on paper, to win a flag over the next 2-3 seasons before Q's retirement.

Only reasons which I think would see him choose us over the Pies is (a) he knows Judd (b) we may be able to offer more money (c) he might want to play more forward than ruck, as no doubt at the Pies he would play 2nd ruck to Jolly a fair bit.

 

[Mutant]

Really disappointed to see Lynchie go, but at the end of the day he needs to get the best deal possible for himself and his family, good luck Lynchie.