QAFL 2023 Season

[Still Me]

I believe its much worse up here.

If you went through the last 5 QLD u18 sides before it got split into Lions/Suns, and then the most recent 5 Level 3 sides for each of those academies, I recon you will find about 60-70% of them are completely lost to footy and not playing anywhere.

That right there is why the competition strength isn't what it should be, as the best talent is frequently lost to the game.

Is it the academies fault? Is it the clubs fault? Not really sure, I used to think all the blame lay with the academies, but I also see clubs spend half their off-season trying to sign blokes from interstate, which probably tells talented young QLD kids that 'we don't think you're good enough'

something needs to change though, as its not a great outcome for anyone.

I think some of it is that these kids are dragged from other sports into the academy with the hopes and dreams of playing AFL because that is what is sold to them.

When they don’t make it they just walk away as they don’t have parents or influences that are AFL ingrained.

That is half the problem, then the other half realise they probably not as dominant or as good at senior level as they were at U18’s so they walk away from challenge.

This will never change no matter how you spin it.

 

[Miller1971]

does the academy really chase athletes from other sports like they used to?

seem to just cherry pick the best kids from clubland these days, with half an eye on the school competitions.

 

[briztoon]

I believe its much worse up here.

If you went through the last 5 QLD u18 sides before it got split into Lions/Suns, and then the most recent 5 Level 3 sides for each of those academies, I recon you will find about 60-70% of them are completely lost to footy and not playing anywhere.

That right there is why the competition strength isn't what it should be, as the best talent is frequently lost to the game.

Is it the academies fault? Is it the clubs fault? Not really sure, I used to think all the blame lay with the academies, but I also see clubs spend half their off-season trying to sign blokes from interstate, which probably tells talented young QLD kids that 'we don't think you're good enough'

something needs to change though, as its not a great outcome for anyone.

Do believe the 70% of TAC Cup/NAB League/CTL that don’t get drafted each year, play at VFL level?

Most would go back to local leagues (granted stronger and still decent pay), or drop out for work or career opportunities.

 

[Miller1971]

Do believe the 70% of TAC Cup/NAB League/CTL that don’t get drafted each year, play at VFL level?

Most would go back to local leagues (granted stronger and still decent pay), or drop out for work or career opportunities.

Definitely wouldn't play VFL, as 70% wouldn't be good enough.

But I'd be staggered if they drop out of footy at the rate they do up here.

Not actually apportioning blame either, I just think its an issue.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

But I'd be staggered if they drop out of footy at the rate they do up here.

Why would you be staggered? Especially as a lot of the kids in Melbourne play most of their footy through private school.

 

[Miller1971]

"staggered' if those that go via the elite pathway, drop out at the rate they do up here *

 

[The Flying Belgian]

"staggered' if those that go via the elite pathway, drop out at the rate they do up here *

I know what you meant. I was wondering what you think the different circumstances are.

 

[Miller1971]

If you google "vic country u18s 2019" or similar, finds the names - from my short testing, about 90% of them are still playing some sort of footy. Either AFL, VFL or in various local leagues. Do the same for Sandringham dragons or similar, and from my small sample size, about 75% of them still playing.

Do the same for QLD u18s 2019 or Lions Academy 2019, and less than 50% are still playing.

Hardly scientific research, but thats what I'm seeing and trying to work out why, and how can it be fixed?

 

[briztoon]

If you google "vic country u18s 2019" or similar, finds the names - from my short testing, about 90% of them are still playing some sort of footy. Either AFL, VFL or in various local leagues. Do the same for Sandringham dragons or similar, and from my small sample size, about 75% of them still playing.

Do the same for QLD u18s 2019 or Lions Academy 2019, and less than 50% are still playing.

Hardly scientific research, but thats what I'm seeing and trying to work out why, and how can it be fixed?

Looking at Vic Country or Metro, and your looking at the best 80 kids from a footy state, where 30-40 will get drafted, and the rest are good enough to play in the various amateur leagues.

Where as comments here in the past have questioned the quality of the lower half of the state u18’s team.

 

[Miller1971]

our state 18's program has been weakened, because with the acadmies its now broken into 2 teams and they weren't that strong to begin with, so there actually isn't a QLD u18 team anymore.

However, thats certainly now improving.

3 years ago, not many Level 3 academy players were even good enough to play Senior QAFL footy, now a majority of them are good enough or pretty close to it.

 

[smy1305]

SMY. Agreed. Do you think that this is ever advised to these young players?

Maybe if the Academies had a KPI of graduating players still being in senior footy (at any level) in 3-4 years later they’d work with the clubs to do so?

It is in the SC academies LB - certainly in the last few years when Dayne Frew has been in charge.

 

[smy1305]

I believe its much worse up here.

If you went through the last 5 QLD u18 sides before it got split into Lions/Suns, and then the most recent 5 Level 3 sides for each of those academies, I recon you will find about 60-70% of them are completely lost to footy and not playing anywhere.

That right there is why the competition strength isn't what it should be, as the best talent is frequently lost to the game.

Is it the academies fault? Is it the clubs fault? Not really sure, I used to think all the blame lay with the academies, but I also see clubs spend half their off-season trying to sign blokes from interstate, which probably tells talented young QLD kids that 'we don't think you're good enough'

something needs to change though, as its not a great outcome for anyone.

Yea think thats a fair analysis without knowing the exact figures either Miller.

 

[smy1305]

I know what you meant. I was wondering what you think the different circumstances are.

Money I think - you can make a damn good living playing 6th tier footy in Vic - not so here.

 

[smy1305]

I think its a good discussion to try and solve though - not necessarily on BF forum but purely from a social issue POV. I think it is indisputable that young men connected with a sporting club in their 20's are far less likely to "stray" and get into trouble with the law than those who aren't. It is why its so important to make all sporting clubs welcoming places - they are doing the community a service tbh!

 

[LaggingBehind]

Looking at Vic Country or Metro, and your looking at the best 80 kids from a footy state, where 30-40 will get drafted, and the rest are good enough to play in the various amateur leagues.

Where as comments here in the past have questioned the quality of the lower half of the state u18’s team.

So they should be playing in clubs more and Academies less. Agreed

 

[smy1305]

So they should be playing in clubs more and Academies less. Agreed

Think you will find any boy who is drafted in the top 20 this year has barely played any club footy. It just doesn't work that way. Harley Reid has played at something like 6 different clubs this year

 

[LaggingBehind]

Think you will find any boy who is drafted in the top 20 this year has barely played any club footy. It just doesn't work that way. Harley Reid has played at something like 6 different clubs this year

Great diversion raising Harley Reid. He would get drafted no matter where he played, and so would the other top 20. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion related to Academy players not drafted still being in club footy a few years post draft age.

 

[briztoon]

So they should be playing in clubs more and Academies less. Agreed

Disagree.

I favour the European soccer model.

Talented kids move up the tiers, and only play for the one team’s academy. If they don’t make the grade at the elite level, they filter back down the grades until they find their level.

Kids are brought in to top tier academies at all ages, from lower leagues every year.

Problem is, with AFL at the lower age groups, there isn’t the funding and competition for the academy teams to play against similarly quality teams each week. Unless the four northern academies play each other 4 times each.

It’s all well and good for the U18’s/level 3 teams to play in the CTL for a third of the season, but they should be playing the whole season in the CTL.

So to the U16’s/level 2 teams, should be playing in the CTL U16 competition.

I find a lot of the discussion and views here very narrow minded at times, and often wonder if “retention” rates are as much to do with the angst from QAFL clubs “losing” players to the academies during the season, and how much QAFL colts and junior coaches negative views of the academies filter through to the kids.

The QAFL clubs and academies should be working hand in hand, with the QAFL clubs pushing their most talented kids to the academies every preseason.


Now a discussion about the quality of the academies themselves is a different matter.

From the outside, it looks like Gold Coast have their academy working very well. I’m not sure about the Lions.

But as we (fans) never hear anything from our club about the academy, none of us would have any idea, if we’re not directly involved with the academy.

 

[noosaboy]

Disagree.

I favour the European soccer model.

Talented kids move up the tiers, and only play for the one team’s academy. If they don’t make the grade at the elite level, they filter back down the grades until they find their level.

Kids are brought in to top tier academies at all ages, from lower leagues every year.

Problem is, with AFL at the lower age groups, there isn’t the funding and competition for the academy teams to play against similarly quality teams each week. Unless the four northern academies play each other 4 times each.

It’s all well and good for the U18’s/level 3 teams to play in the CTL for a third of the season, but they should be playing the whole season in the CTL.

So to the U16’s/level 2 teams, should be playing in the CTL U16 competition.

I find a lot of the discussion and views here very narrow minded at times, and often wonder if “retention” rates are as much to do with the angst from QAFL clubs “losing” players to the academies during the season, and how much QAFL colts and junior coaches negative views of the academies filter through to the kids.

The QAFL clubs and academies should be working hand in hand, with the QAFL clubs pushing their most talented kids to the academies every preseason.


Now a discussion about the quality of the academies themselves is a different matter.

From the outside, it looks like Gold Coast have their academy working very well. I’m not sure about the Lions.

But as we (fans) never hear anything from our club about the academy, none of us would have any idea, if we’re not directly involved with the academy.

Gee that’s far too complicated for this fan!
We can all spot the talent,the academies are a money grab and a flog for idiotic parents to say’my 11 year old is in the lions academy’
Big reason why when they don’t make it they just call it quits!
Back to the old part time talent scouts who report to a full time recruiting officer in designated areas and more will continue playing locally I reckon!

 

[Miller1971]

The QAFL clubs and academies should be working hand in hand, with the QAFL clubs pushing their most talented kids to the academies every preseason.

They most certainly do that, just not sure they are pushed back with any enthusiasm once the academy are done with them.

The issue is not 'losing' the talent to the academy system when they are 17-18, its that 99% of these kids going through the academy aren't getting drafted (could be talent issue, development issue, whatever, not relevant to this discussion on why) but they often don't find their way back.

Is that the academies fault? I used to be certain it was, but I'm not so sure now

Is it the clubs fault? not sure either, I'm actually starting to think they are part of the problem though

why is it happening? How do we fix it? Is anyone in an actual influential footy role thinking about it, analysing it and trying to do anything about it?

Totally agree that the Academy teams should play in the CTL for the full season, the AFL has billions - just bloody fund it.

The problem for these kids is they are kid of having a bet each way. They play a handful of CTL games, play against the other academies and then filter back into clubland mid season.

Whether they then get senior opportunity in clubland or not is often dtermined by where their club is at. Come back in Round 8 and their club is flying, they go back to Colts. Yet their mate at another club, who may actually have inferior talent, he filters back to a club sitting last and plays 10 games in a row of Senior footy.

Stay in the talent system full time in their 18th year, or don't go at all. This half pregnant stuff just doesn't work.

 

[smy1305]

Great diversion raising Harley Reid. He would get drafted no matter where he played, and so would the other top 20. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion related to Academy players not drafted still being in club footy a few years post draft age.

Not making sense LB - we are talking about boys of draftable age and the connections between club/academy. That's the discussion. The greater the connection with club prior to draft day, between ages 16-18, the greater the likelihood a boy not drafted will continue to play footy at that club. Whether a kid is a certainty to be drafted vs someone on the periphery, the connection with club is important. BTW does anyone point a finger at the AFL clubs and their duty of care to the player when exited after the code's average of 10 AFL games or less or is it just when they are 18 do we worry about?

 

[smy1305]

Gee that’s far too complicated for this fan!
We can all spot the talent,the academies are a money grab and a flog for idiotic parents to say’my 11 year old is in the lions academy’
Big reason why when they don’t make it they just call it quits!
Back to the old part time talent scouts who report to a full time recruiting officer in designated areas and more will continue playing locally I reckon!

Think of it like the old U19 system in Victoria where kids were cherry picked from about age 15 to be in a club's U19 system. if they played they did, if they didn't then they played club footy. Briztoon advocating (I think) that there would be an equivalent comp for U16, U14 teams. Issue is obviously tyranny of distance here in Australia - much easier in countries like the UK - and Euro soccer works on a different level again to AFL business.

 

[smy1305]

They most certainly do that, just not sure they are pushed back with any enthusiasm once the academy are done with them.

The issue is not 'losing' the talent to the academy system when they are 17-18, its that 99% of these kids going through the academy aren't getting drafted (could be talent issue, development issue, whatever, not relevant to this discussion on why) but they often don't find their way back.

Is that the academies fault? I used to be certain it was, but I'm not so sure now

Is it the clubs fault? not sure either, I'm actually starting to think they are part of the problem though

why is it happening? How do we fix it? Is anyone in an actual influential footy role thinking about it, analysing it and trying to do anything about it?

Totally agree that the Academy teams should play in the CTL for the full season, the AFL has billions - just bloody fund it.

The problem for these kids is they are kid of having a bet each way. They play a handful of CTL games, play against the other academies and then filter back into clubland mid season.

Whether they then get senior opportunity in clubland or not is often dtermined by where their club is at. Come back in Round 8 and their club is flying, they go back to Colts. Yet their mate at another club, who may actually have inferior talent, he filters back to a club sitting last and plays 10 games in a row of Senior footy.

Stay in the talent system full time in their 18th year, or don't go at all. This half pregnant stuff just doesn't work.

Really good analysis imo Miller - Maroochydore had a kid come back from playing Allies FFS and spent the first few weeks kicking the dew off with the Colts. That was ridiculous. Bottom line though is that just because you are playing in an Academy side at 18 means diddly squat as to whether you are state league football quality but you would like to think that it means you are possibly better than the 17yr olds back at your club.
It's not always the club or the academy issue either - sometimes the kid themselves just isn't motivated, never loved the game but just played for a possible grab at some fame and fortune. When that doesn't arrive then hang the boots up bc it is a hard game.

 

[LaggingBehind]

Not making sense LB - we are talking about boys of draftable age and the connections between club/academy. That's the discussion. The greater the connection with club prior to draft day, between ages 16-18, the greater the likelihood a boy not drafted will continue to play footy at that club. Whether a kid is a certainty to be drafted vs someone on the periphery, the connection with club is important. BTW does anyone point a finger at the AFL clubs and their duty of care to the player when exited after the code's average of 10 AFL games or less or is it just when they are 18 do we worry about?

SMY, apologies for my lack of clarity. Maybe I’m just being short sighted as BrizToon suggests.

In response:
(1) Absolutely the discussion is the players making up the numbers in the Academy, not dead certain draftees (because they’re getting drafted). Absolutely each player in the Academy should have a red hot crack at getting drafted (and their QAFL club should 100% support them to doing so). And absolutely the greater the connection with club prior to draft day the greater likelihood of them continuing with the club. That is actually the precise point being made now, and previously. I simply suggest that there could be some better balance. If you suggest otherwise then we can agree to disagree.

(2) You mention players at AFL clubs with only a few games. I don’t profess to be an expert in any way shape or form however my understanding is that these AFL listed players do have a players association and support groups, player managers etc for assistance and guidance for the players exiting the AFL club. I think the big difference here is they’ve now got a personal brand. The classic example is a player in QFA Div 1 list at Beenleigh, for example, can command sound $ at the lower levels because he has the experience of a handful of AFL games and VFL/ NEAFL games.

 

[goalkicker11]

SMY, apologies for my lack of clarity. Maybe I’m just being short sighted as BrizToon suggests.

In response:
(1) Absolutely the discussion is the players making up the numbers in the Academy, not dead certain draftees (because they’re getting drafted). Absolutely each player in the Academy should have a red hot crack at getting drafted (and their QAFL club should 100% support them to doing so). And absolutely the greater the connection with club prior to draft day the greater likelihood of them continuing with the club. That is actually the precise point being made now, and previously. I simply suggest that there could be some better balance. If you suggest otherwise then we can agree to disagree.

(2) You mention players at AFL clubs with only a few games. I don’t profess to be an expert in any way shape or form however my understanding is that these AFL listed players do have a players association and support groups, player managers etc for assistance and guidance for the players exiting the AFL club. I think the big difference here is they’ve now got a personal brand. The classic example is a player in QFA Div 1 list at Beenleigh, for example, can command sound $ at the lower levels because he has the experience of a handful of AFL games and VFL/ NEAFL games.

Are you saying it’s not good recruitment from Beenleigh and what about Coorparoo getting Suckling?