Preview R12: Changes v Wet Toast @ AO

[Sanders]

Surely every single person in the entire world could see we didn't draft Murphy as a forward, he hasn't got a single forwards bone in his body.

If we didn't draft Murphy as a midfielder where did we think he was going to play.

He is just another in a long list of midfielders we draft but end up playing as forwards because we don't believe in rolling a squad of 6 or 7 mids in a game, unfortunately we stick to the same Stacked Four every bloody week.

Our diabolical state of affairs is due to poor drafting AND poor development/selection/gameplan.

I guess there is also some room for word interpretation here

It seems we drafted him “to be” a forward, but not “as a” forward because he never played as one and didn’t know how

Even he didn’t know why they thought he could play forward.

What he was when drafted was a midfielder, also playing out of defence.

The intention was to use him as a forward.

 

[SellarStardom]

I think keays stays but i would have him set up as a negating role on the oppo best mid. Then let our younger mids go head to head with the second third snd fourth best mids the opposition have

That's the ideal plan that the club won't do.

Worrell, Borlase or Frampton, my pick would be Worrell but you know they are scared to make any reasonable changes down back, they would have probably opted to play Brown on Kennedy.

Was at the Eagles game last week and most say Kennedy looked slow and short of a run

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Surely every single person in the entire world could see we didn't draft Murphy as a forward, he hasn't got a single forwards bone in his body.

If we didn't draft Murphy as a midfielder where did we think he was going to play.

He is just another in a long list of midfielders we draft but end up playing as forwards because we don't believe in rolling a squad of 6 or 7 mids in a game, unfortunately we stick to the same Stacked Four every bloody week.

Our diabolical state of affairs is due to poor drafting AND poor development/selection/gameplan.

Sorry but you need to watch this, he's right...

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Murphy himself states he's was picked up to be a small forward by Pyke. I think most likely Pyke was just hoping to bring a bit of Richmond with more pressure from our forward line. Trouble is Murphy doesn't have much forward craft, we've seen more from him around the ground than up forward.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

To be honest I don't believe any change in personnel will help, much unless it is to bring in Youth
What will help, is to change where certain Players are Playing,
I am Agreeing with Rowie on 5AA, our midfield in it current form is Shit,
We need to move Laird and Keays out of the midfield, Laird to Defence where he still gets 25+ disposal and more time time to make them effective,
And Keay to high Forward role, and he will still get 20+. and more time to make them more effective,
Let's just run with Crouch, Hatley, Berry, Schoenberg, Peddlar, Jones, Soligo, etc running thru the middle.

Then at the end of the year, we will have a better understanding of where we are.

I would just like to see deeper midfield rotations.

Why can't Laird & Jones rotate through the midfield & defence?

All the others can rotate through the midfield & forward line, including our small forwards like McHenry, Rachele, Rowe & Murphy.

 

[CrowBloke]

There’s no evidence to that but plenty to the contrary.

I agree. In my reply I was answering a question, but only speculating about what might be.
There's so much that the Coaches do that I (and many others in here) do not understand. No point listing them all; posters who are up-to-date with current threads are well aware of them.
My two biggest complaints are:
--- Berry is clearly a more effective mid than Crouch, yet Crouch is preferred for no good reason that I can see. Nicks et al trust seniority above actual performance. It's infuriating. Imagine if Sloane was fit enough to play! We'd have the Sloane/Laird/Keays/Crouch combo spudding it up on a weekly basis with no experimentation or trust in younger players.
--- the Crows' poor kicking skills. The 2022 Crows are the worst @ kicking that I can remember.

 

[arsene wenger1]

Yeah, they appear in full tank mode.

They would be looking to win home game or 2 towards the end of the year to give their fans some hope... if it doesn't impact on their draft order.

Watch them finish bottom 2 as a one off season and pick up that next gun midfielder

 

[Mego Red]

Surely it's pointless playing an injured Doedee. Give him the week off & the bye to get his hand right.

Perfect opportunity to bring in Worrell to play on Darling.

Milera isn't anywhere near AFL level at the moment.

Yep, happy with the Doedee decision if he's genuinely injured. I've not heard anything official about that.

Not sure it's Worrall though. Probably Frampton, as Darling would destroy Worrall. Though I guess we COULD try Hinge.

I don't agree with dropping a player after one week. I'd give Milera another.

 

[BRL121]

I agree. In my reply I was answering a question, but only speculating about what might be.
There's so much that the Coaches do that I (and many others in here) do not understand. No point listing them all; posters who are up-to-date with current threads are well aware of them.
My two biggest complaints are:
--- Berry is clearly a more effective mid than Crouch, yet Crouch is preferred for no good reason that I can see. Nicks et al trust seniority above actual performance. It's infuriating. Imagine if Sloane was fit enough to play! We'd have the Sloane/Laird/Keays/Crouch combo spudding it up on a weekly basis with no experimentation or trust in younger players.
--- the Crows' poor kicking skills. The 2022 Crows are the worst @ kicking that I can remember.

I reckon that the handballing skills are much worse than the kicking skills.
Most of the oppositions that I watch handball quickly and deftly to their teammates, who then do likewise, leading to smooth attacking chains. Also, I'm amazed that the tackled oppo, after doing a 180 or so, manage to give strong and long handballs to their teamates who then run off with it.
In our case, none of this happens. Many of our handballs are of the hospital variety, and, when tackled, we surrender and handball to the ground, with no ability to fight through the tackle and hit our man. Doedee, in the last match, provided the epitome of this.

There is the odd exception, e.g., Tex. Also, in the SANFL, we have shown the intention and ability to set up attacking handball chains, but not in the AFL, probably due to pressure and lack of skill.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Surely every single person in the entire world could see we didn't draft Murphy as a forward, he hasn't got a single forwards bone in his body.

If we didn't draft Murphy as a midfielder where did we think he was going to play.

I think you may have blown your load a tad early Rocketman.

“Every single person in the entire world could see we didn’t draft Murphy as a FORWARD”…..well except for Don Pyke the coach of the AFC who “phoned me after I was drafted to say we drafted you as a FORWARD” to quote none other than ……………. Lachie Murphy .

The other clue is that he has played his entire career in the AFL as a FORWARD.

The argument wasn’t whether he SHOULD be playing as a FORWARD but the FACT that Don Pyke and the AFC drafted him to play as a forward following the hasty exit by Charlie Cameron.

As for you Sanders, a simple apology should suffice. Along the lines that “I regret suggesting that you made this up Jack, I was WRONG and you were RIGHT.

Finally, regarding my historical quote, do you know how that ended? With another famous quote…..
“This was the sweetest victory of all”

 

[Scorpus]

Surely every single person in the entire world could see we didn't draft Murphy as a forward, he hasn't got a single forwards bone in his body.

If we didn't draft Murphy as a midfielder where did we think he was going to play.

He is just another in a long list of midfielders we draft but end up playing as forwards because we don't believe in rolling a squad of 6 or 7 mids in a game, unfortunately we stick to the same Stacked Four every bloody week.

Our diabolical state of affairs is due to poor drafting AND poor development/selection/gameplan.

We did draft Murphy to play forward (it's where he has almost exclusively played), our talent ID is just bad and we didn't realize he sucks as a forward

 

[Its not the coach]

Anyone else catch the vision of Milera looking like an 8 year old about to burst into tears when the half time siren went and he knew he was worst on ground by a street?

He’s completely broken. Wouldn’t be surprised if he retired before next season tbh.

Haha are you serious? He's got 3 years to go on an AFL contract, He could spend that time playing SANFL and still get the cash. He won't be retiring and either would I.

 

[MRB37]

We did draft Murphy to play forward (it's where he has almost exclusively played), our talent ID is just bad and we didn't realize he sucks as a forward

I mean, he has "traits" that you'd probably would hope/assume would translate to him learning the role, but he lacks the forward sense and then we've compounded the problem by throwing McHenry and a Berry/Pedlar/Hately mish-mash in the half-forward/pressure role

In terms of "filling a niche role" we were correct to use the rookie draft to stop-gap it with Murphy, and the same with the Stengle trade (he cost us pick 68), and Ben Crocker (rookie draft again) so low cost fill-ins who had some potential, the problem is now we've got more pressing needs, but then also used Ned McHenry (pick 16) and Jimmy Rowe (pick 38) to add to it, not mentioning the young mids we run through there who are all top 25 picks too.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

I watched the West Coast game last week and it is difficult to explain why they are playing so poorly. Yes, they have a lot of talent on the injury list but they still have an older and more experienced than the Crows. Last week they had 9 of their 2018 premiership team playing plus Gaff, Witherden, SPP and Kelly.

This week they will probably add Hurn. This is a lot more experience and talent than our 8-10 fifty plus game players.

If they refused to fire a shot on their home deck in front of their adoring fans against the Bulldogs then it’s hard to see them grinding out a win on a cold, wet Adelaide Oval on Saturday.

 

[MRB37]

I watched the West Coast game last week and it is difficult to explain why they are playing so poorly. Yes, they have a lot of talent on the injury list but they still have an older and more experienced than the Crows. Last week they had 9 of their 2018 premiership team playing plus Gaff, Witherden, SPP and Kelly.

This week they will probably add Hurn. This is a lot more experience and talent than our 8-10 fifty plus game players.

If they refused to fire a shot on their home deck in front of their adoring fans against the Bulldogs then it’s hard to see them grinding out a win on a cold, wet Adelaide Oval on Saturday.

I think their experience is like a lot of ours was in 2019. Cooked and not at the level they were in the past. With that being said I expect they'll be able to find a bit of form this week.

 

[jackster83]

I watched the West Coast game last week and it is difficult to explain why they are playing so poorly. Yes, they have a lot of talent on the injury list but they still have an older and more experienced than the Crows. Last week they had 9 of their 2018 premiership team playing plus Gaff, Witherden, SPP and Kelly.

This week they will probably add Hurn. This is a lot more experience and talent than our 8-10 fifty plus game players.

If they refused to fire a shot on their home deck in front of their adoring fans against the Bulldogs then it’s hard to see them grinding out a win on a cold, wet Adelaide Oval on Saturday.

Well at least we'll have someone to kick to.

 

[Sanders]

I think you may have blown your load a tad early Rocketman.

“Every single person in the entire world could see we didn’t draft Murphy as a FORWARD”…..well except for Don Pyke the coach of the AFC who “phoned me after I was drafted to say we drafted you as a FORWARD” to quote none other than ……………. Lachie Murphy .

We’ll ignore your claims about Pyke ringing him before he was drafted and asking…

And instead point something out to your tiny mind:

He wasn’t drafted as a forward, because by his own admission he’d never played there.

We drafted him with the intention of trying to make him a forward. To be a forward.

Surely a trivial, unserious pedant like yourself shouldn’t have missed that difference

The other clue is that he has played his entire career in the AFL as a FORWARD.

And there we are, it doesn’t take too long for the foot to go back in the mouth.

Only played forward must be like all the times you’ve imagined Dawson on a wing.

The argument wasn’t whether he SHOULD be playing as a FORWARD but the FACT that Don Pyke and the AFC drafted him to play as a forward following the hasty exit by Charlie Cameron.

It does appear to be correct in that we didn’t draft a forward, but that we intended to turn him into a forward.

As for you Sanders, a simple apology should suffice. Along the lines that “I regret suggesting that you made this up Jack, I was WRONG and you were RIGHT.

I was thinking you ought to thank the bloke who found what you couldn’t?

Finally, regarding my historical quote, do you know how that ended? With another famous quote…..
“This was the sweetest victory of all”

Yeah, not weird at all

 

[Sanders]

We did draft Murphy to play forward (it's where he has almost exclusively played), our talent ID is just bad and we didn't realize he sucks as a forward

How could we realise he sucks as a forward when he had never played as a forward?

In his own words he didn’t know why they wanted to try him as a forward

 

[jamesclean]

man the amount of boring af arguments on this thing MURPHY WAS DRAFTED AS A CHF

 

[crows dude]

Unavailable - Butts, Sloane, Brown, Seedsman

AFL 23

F mcAdam Thilthorpe Soligo
HF Keays Walker Rowe
C Hinge Crouch Dawson
HB Hamill Frampton Laird
B Smith Murray Doedee
R O.Brien Hately Berry
I Cook Milera Fogarty Worrell Sholl



SANFL 22 following the AFL match at Adelaide Oval

F Gollant McAsey Nankervis
HF Rachele Himmelberg McHenry
C Schoenberg Jones Newchurch
HB Davis Borlase Parnell
B Brown mcKenzie mcPherson
R Strachan Murphy Pedlar
I Wright, Boyle, Sharrad, Smithson

 

[CrowBloke]

I note that Brown is out on H&S protocols.

So, as with Sloane, Brown's being replaced will not be because of his extended poor form.
His replacement will play better than he has.
His replacement will be bounced when Brown has recovered, especially if it's a promising junior player.

It's the Nicks way.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I note that Brown is out on H&S protocols.

So, as with Sloane, Brown's being replaced will not be because of his extended poor form.
His replacement will play better than he has.
His replacement will be shifted to a half forward flank where he’ll struggle and then bounced when Brown has recovered, especially if it's a promising junior player.

It's the Nicks way.

FTFY

 

[CrowBloke]

In another thread, this was posted:

The problem is you’re trying to prove what you want to be true, not trying to find out what is true

That happens a lot, in BF. I've done it, myself.

With respect because I mean no personal negativity, the extended to-and-fro between Sanders and Ciao Giacomo has boiled down to the difference between:
"Murphy was recruited as a forward",
and
"Murphy was recruited to be a forward". This strikes me as unnecessary hair-splitting.

I'd like to ask, what does it matter now? Aren't you both just digging in, to be right, "to prove what you want to be true"?

None of us will never know exactly what Pyke said to Murphy. Even Murphy's recollections will not be exact, distorted by the failures of memory over time. No doubt Murphy jumped at the chance, keen to play AFL footy; he might even have said "YEAH Don, I'd love to play forward! " (translation: "I'd love to play AFL").

What matters most is that Murphy is not a forward; he does not have the instincts/positioning of a forward, nor the goalsneak skills of a forward. Pyke tried to turn a silk purse (a keen, tough mid, at the time) into a sow's ear, which is what Murphy has become.
The extended problem from that is that Nicks has continued with this trend of playing draftees out of their preferred (or developed) positions. There are many examples and most BF posters would be aware of them.
eg Frampton has shown some promise as a floating sweeper. I hope never to see him selected again, but given our outs/needs I can see a use for him on a wing, drifting back, for this WCE game. If Nicks must select him, let him roam. Frampton is useless, one-on-one.
Dawson's a much better, more skilful player than Frampton, but his best seems to be from a wing drifitng between HF and HB. Nicks might well wreck Dawson by using Dawson's sublime skills as a Chicken Man ("He's everywhere! He's everywhere!") hole-plugger. Oppo Coaches are a wake-up to when Dawson drifts (or is sent) back and instruct their forwards to drag him deeper back, where he is less effective.

Back to Murphy, for the WCE game --- maybe try him at HB (not HF) but give him some mid time, or rotate him off the bench as a tough little nugget livewire to aggravate oppo mids, which McHenry would also do well (he's another who is not a forward, ffs).

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Well, I guess that is as close as it gets to Sanders ever admitting he was WRONG.

I could point out some of the inconsistencies in his attempt to squirm out of this but I will just take the W and move on .

 

[Sanders]

In another thread, this was posted:

That happens a lot, in BF. I've done it, myself.

With respect because I mean no personal negativity, the extended to-and-fro between Sanders and Ciao Giacomo has boiled down to the difference between:
"Murphy was recruited as a forward",
and
"Murphy was recruited to be a forward". This strikes me as unnecessary hair-splitting.

Nah, what it amounted to was a noted & known peevish little sniper jumping out of the shadows trying to land a gotcha on someone who doesn’t care

If it matters depends on how you want to use or interpret the information.

When or if complaining about his perceived shortcomings as a forward, I’d say it does matter whether he was drafted as a forward, or if he had ever played forward in his life

trying to turn someone into something they’re not (or at least hadn’t been) is a more extreme version of the common refrain about playing someone out of position

Murphy is an inside stoppage midfielder, he’s quite a neat one, with clean hands and efficient movement.

Saying Pyke wanted to turn him into a forward at senior AFL level post drafting, gives a very different picture to implying he was a forward when drafting and trying to make sense of his forward play

I'd like to ask, what does it matter now? Aren't you both just digging in, to be right, "to prove what you want to be true"?

Does it matter? Does anything?

And no it doesn’t matter, except in the context of certain, specific questions

Usually when talking about why a player isn’t succeeding, a reference to their history, background at junior level and at time of drafting is often relevant

McHenry & Jones were both midfielders, neither plays there now. The question of usage and background has something to say in terms of drafting or development issues.

None of us will never know exactly what Pyke said to Murphy. Even Murphy's recollections will not be exact, distorted by the failures of memory over time. No doubt Murphy jumped at the chance, keen to play AFL footy; he might even have said "YEAH Don, I'd love to play forward! " (translation: "I'd love to play AFL").

I think he’d remember whether he was asked or not how he felt about playing forward before he was drafted.

He said in that interview Pyke told him after he was drafted (not sure how long after) that he intended to use him as a forward

None of that sounds like something you wouldn’t remember.

He also said that when Pyke told him that he was surprised and didn’t know why they thought that as he’d never played forward before

Again, when debating his performance as a forward, that seems to have some relevance

 

[Crow-eater]