Review R19: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. Essendon

[MarcusP2]

Typical selfish Laird telling the coaches he wouldn't be any good playing midfield.

 

[Mostyn]

He was soft at the contest at least twice last night. There has been no improvement in that area of his game.

No, that's not true.

Rachele goes exactly as he should. Calling him a coward - which is what is meant when calling someone soft - is ridiculous.

If anything, the one obvious time he withdrew from contact and stopped himself from bumping probably saved him a suspension.

 

[mick500]

Take the umpires out of the game in their f50 and the first 10 minutes, we flogged em all night.

Genuine question, how did we flog them all night? Looking at the stats, we lost in literally every single metric on the AFL website except for efficiency for goals inside 50's and the scoreboard. They also kicked 8 goals to 2 in the 3rd QTR.

 

[Mostyn]

Typical selfish Laird telling the coaches he wouldn't be any good playing midfield.

Lol, you should do a "/s" for those who don't get the joke

 

[CrowBloke]

I owe Bovo an apology: he challenged me (which was fair enough)

Nicks my hero?

and I replied with:
"I did not say that. Not once, nor did I imply it." <== that's demonstrably wrong,
because,
well, actually I did ; in my previous post:
"We win last night, and Nicks is your hero? ".

I couldn't let it slide without apologising, unreservedly.

 

[cleanhands]

No, that's not true.

Rachele goes exactly as he should. Calling him a coward - which is what is meant when calling someone soft - is ridiculous.

If anything, the one obvious time he withdrew from contact and stopped himself from bumping probably saved him a suspension.

A coward and being soft are not the same

 

[Bearded Clam]

Our No 1 goal for the rest of the season is to find a role for Murphy

He can go and “lead” in the SANFL..

Its one of life’s great mysteries that this absolute fraud of a footballer is still being given game after game at the top level..

How many wasted games that could’ve been given to a younger player with more talent and nouse..

Shit like this is what stunts the development and growth of your youth.

 

[Mostyn]

A coward and being soft are not the same

When people say someone is soft, they're saying that they choose to not do the hard and physically risky team things.

They're not saying they're outside. They say soft when they mean weak.

 

[cleanhands]

When people say someone is soft, they're saying that they choose to not do the hard and physically risky team things.

They're not saying they're outside. They say soft when they mean weak.

So where does the coward come in?

 

[John Who]

Firstly, I loved the win vs GWS (on the back of that brilliant 7-goal second quarter ).
I'm happy they beat the dour, boring Saints.
I loved that they won last night, I loved the footy they played to kick those 9 goals and I really, really loved the comeback for 15 points down to win a close one , for which Nicks has Fog and Keays to thank.
I was ecstatic.
I love when they win well, win hard. I think Fog and Keays are playing the kind of footy we've always wanted from them and I hope like Hell they continue. To win Away like that without Tex or Rankine was exceptional.
Yippee! Hot-diggety, dog-diggety!!

As happy as I am about those wins, I am more unhappy about what's happened this year in total.

John, I know what I saw and heard.
A Crow was interviewed after the game. He (whomever it was, Fog? Keays?) said clearly that Nicks had sent them out at the start of the game to play defensively. He didn't elaborate, but that would account for the 3-goals-down start.
It's bad Coaching. Defensive mindset = "After the opposition gets the ball, we defend".
It's garbage.
After quarter time if you think it was Nicks put them onto the 9-goal spree, you're dreamin'.
It's NOT in Nicks' DNA.
After 1/4 time, I'd say Hombsch, or Hombsch and VB, or Hombsch + VB + Dawson/Keays/Soligo suggested they go all-out attack.

Furthermore, I heard Nicks say in his presser that they often lose those close ones but they've practised ways to counter them (= "I, The Great Nickso, have now shown them how to win those close ones") and I'm calling bullshit.
Essendon had three clear and clean chances to goal in those last 5 minutes.
1) Did Nicks Coach our bloke to give Merritt room to stream out of centre but fluff his delivery?? Some more practice-scenarios are needed, there! Merrett could have bounced at least once and had a shot, or kicked to a teammate about 30m out, but kicked wildly from the 50m line, inexplicably.
2) Did Nicks Coach Draper to miss that easy shot at goal (hit the post). No, that was Draper's own poor execution and serves him right, the flog.
3) Did Nicks Coach that frosty-haired putz to attempt a checkside from 30m out with a teammate free 20m away straight in front? That's right, NO he didn't .

When they play badly Nicks blames the list, or he needs better Assistants, or it's the players' fault (not doing what Nicks wants), or injuries, or Global Warming, or Inflation, or a hangnail or the Stars etc, anything but Nicks' fault, and I call bullshit on that too.
Have you ever heard Nicks take responsibility for a selection that was poor, or a defensive chip-chip, slow game plan that went awry, or say directly that he was accountable for any shit error/decision/loss?

i have not.

When they play well (the second and fourth quarters were outstanding), Nicks wants to soak up the credit which you starry-eyed Nicks-lovers shower on him.

I suspect Dawson took it on himself to go back in the last before he went off dizzy, as he has done often before, as he has license to do by Nicks' own admission. If that was Nicks' initiative, woop, I'm not gonna get excited if he does something he's paid hugely to do.
I gave Nicks credit for moving Keays to the midfield in the fourth. in my original post.
THAT was a good Coach's move, so maybe he's learning... and ... it's about ****ing time!!

Fellas, I am holding Nicks accountable for what he has done this year, not getting all giddy about what he m-i-g-h-t do by the end of the Season.
Let's speculate that the Crows storm home and win their last 5 games (including Geelong @ Great Hash Brown Shithole and Sydney away).
I will be delighted.
I will never be so happy to be so wrong.

I honestly don’t think we’re that far off on the thinking other than the fact you use the phrase “you starry-eyed Nicks-lovers shower on him”.

A “starry-eyed-Nicks lover” to me is a supporter that doesn’t see the bad in the coach. I believe this kind of supporter doesn’t exist on here but a mere figment of the echo chamber’s fantasies. If such a supporter does exist, wins OR losses, they’d sing praises of Nicks on a perpetual daily basis. I don’t do that, and I don’t see anyone here do that.

Now Nicks might have told them to be “defensive-minded”, which would be hardly anything shocking, but this doesn’t equate to him saying “just defend boys!” A 9-goal spree of course you need some talent in the players, but you can’t bypass the coach’s involvement in setting up the structures to allow such a spree to happen.

I’m not arguing with your general sentiments because I’m also gutted that we’re not closer to the top 8 than we are now, just the thing I want to point out is that Nicks had a good coach’s game the other night and that the team played at the right kind of intensity. You can’t focus on all the other components of the game and ignore the fact we had more scoring shots and the umpires were favouring the other team. Not to mention no key forwards in Tex and Rankine, and Thilthorpe is only in his second game back.

We played well, and it’s ok to say the coach had a decent game. It’s also ok to hate our season, but don’t conflate the season highlights and the individual game highlights.

 

[feenix67]

He can go and “lead” in the SANFL..

Its one of life’s great mysteries that this absolute fraud of a footballer is still being given game after game at the top level..

How many wasted games that could’ve been given to a younger player with more talent and nouse..

Shit like this is what stunts the development and growth of your youth.

Mutineer you disliked this post. I'm really interested to hear your counterpoint.

 

[cleanhands]

Mutineer you disliked this post. I'm really interested to hear your counterpoint.

 

[rabidcrow]

No, that's not true.

Rachele goes exactly as he should. Calling him a coward - which is what is meant when calling someone soft - is ridiculous.

If anything, the one obvious time he withdrew from contact and stopped himself from bumping probably saved him a suspension.

Several of his tackle/pressure efforts created goals


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Mutineer]

Mutineer you disliked this post. I'm really interested to hear your counterpoint.

This

"absolute fraud of a footballer"

Yet he's 99.99% better than almost everyone on Big Footy and without a doubt that particular poster..

Go read some of his Ben Keays references.

 

[Captain Furious]

Good: my American partner knows nothing about footy but half watches the games with me. Her favorite player is Keays because she thinks he's performing in a musical while everyone else is playing sport. She also likes Fog because he has 'the biggest dump truck I've ever seen on a human'. Having both of them blitz made for a fun watch.

Max playing a like a 10 year veteran in his 2nd year, especially in the closing stages. Reminds me of Ben Hart

Ben Hart

Age

50

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

0.8

3star

so much. Looks like he'll fill out a bit more and play up the ground though.

Hinge's kick to Fog. Football as art.

Bonus good: watched the SANFL highlights and Toby Murray looks like a player.

Bad: Seeing the wasted opportunity in this season; our best football is as good as anyone's but with our inconsistency, we're a 6th-10th side. Thing is, 2-14 on the ladder are 6-10 sides. Carlton must be the weakest 2nd place side we've seen at this stage of a season, average teams like Port and Essendon are right in it for top 4. Seems crazy to talk about flags when we're bottom 5 but whichever of 11 teams that hit form over the next 8 weeks are a shot. Any of them will fancy their chances against a young Swans side at the G on grand final day. A couple more very attainable wins early this year and we'd be in that mix.

Ugly: Huge sigh of relief with Murray but Butts likely season over. Those lisfrancs can be career threatening when they reoccur. He's still young and an important part of our team, the best tall we have at stopping the opposition. Hoping he gets back and can have a decent career.

 

[Southerntakeover]

This

"absolute fraud of a footballer"

Yet he's 99.99% better than almost everyone on Big Footy and without a doubt that particular poster..

Go read some of his Ben Keays references.

You had no problem declaring that Darcy Fogarty had no athletic traits back in the day, and had no position at the top level. We don't need to deal with whether he's better than you: he's a better footballer than any of your favourites players.

Is being harsh ok when its you on talented youngsters, and disgraceful when its your untalented effort faves?

 

[Southerntakeover]

By the way, on the 'we're totally making progress in the rebuild because we're learning how to win close games!' school of thought: I don't buy it.

Essendon had easy chances at the end, should have won, didn't take them. Carlton fluffed the match winner.

The difference between those games and Collingwood is that Collingwood don't miss those. We're making the same mistakes.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

By the way, on the 'we're totally making progress in the rebuild because we're learning how to win close games!' school of thought: I don't buy it.

Essendon had easy chances at the end, should have won, didn't take them. Carlton fluffed the match winner.

The difference between those games and Collingwood is that Collingwood don't miss those. We're making the same mistakes.

Draper was this round's Owies.

 

[CrowBloke]

I honestly don’t think we’re that far off on the thinking other than the fact you use the phrase “you starry-eyed Nicks-lovers shower on him”.

A “starry-eyed-Nicks lover” to me is a supporter that doesn’t see the bad in the coach. I believe this kind of supporter doesn’t exist on here but a mere figment of the echo chamber’s fantasies. If such a supporter does exist, wins OR losses, they’d sing praises of Nicks on a perpetual daily basis. I don’t do that, and I don’t see anyone here do that.

John, mate, you've taken what I said far too seriously. I was being facetious.
Hyperbole-for-effect. I repeat: I loved the win, but please consider the following...
When does Nicks make the changes that we've suggested in here, some of which in fact we've been screaming for him to do, for weeks?
I can answer that, ie when he's forced to, by injury or circumstance --- not by insight, or any concept of player development, or innovation/instinct/flair.
Nicks had been forced to replace Murray, Thilthorpe, Crouch, Milera, then later Rankine (sus.) and the rested Tex.

I know that all reasonable Coaches are forced on Game Day to make changes due to a player injury, or some player getting soundly beaten, but the good Coaches experiment, dabble, and get games into developing players so that they are ready to play AFL. By doing that, they find the best players to build the best team.
We're finding out now, too late, what Dowling, Bond, Taylor and Cook are capable of. and please don't reply with the better-late-than-never platitude, because without senior/preferred player injuries, their younger substitutes would still be under-developed in the SANFL.
Imagine this --- a team without the above players, but also with Murray and Butts injured and Dawson concussed, was able to come back against a Top-6 side (potentially Top-4,had they won) from 15 points down with under 7 minutes to play.
VB said the Coaches' box was very busy having to deal with the Murray/Butts/Dawson losses. VB admitted they put Bond and Taylor and Keays in the middle out of necessity, guessing correctly that Bond and Keays had elite fitness (Kudos to Burgess!) and Taylor some footy nous (but Taylor admitted after the game he was gassed).
They tried it and --- guess what? --- it worked! How about that?
Without those injuries and forced changes, Nicks would never know what they could do because they'd be in the SANFL.
Last Friday night Keays had what will surely be regarded as his break-out game, finally, where he pushed himself to doing what we've all hoped he would do and be BOG, with Fog and Hinge close seconds.

Keays/Taylor/Bond in the middle, ROB with a killer last 10 minutes on the back of Keays and Fog and Hinge driving us all game, for the win.
WHODA THUNK IT, John? Not Nicks, who would have stuck with his preferred 23 if he had the choice.

Now Nicks might have told them to be “defensive-minded”, which would be hardly anything shocking, but this doesn’t equate to him saying “just defend boys!” A 9-goal spree of course you need some talent in the players, but you can’t bypass the coach’s involvement in setting up the structures to allow such a spree to happen.

I'd have to watch the player interview again; 2 days have passed and I'm old.
It was Laird who revealed the info, btw.

I’m not arguing with your general sentiments because I’m also gutted that we’re not closer to the top 8 than we are now, just the thing I want to point out is that Nicks had a good coach’s game the other night and that the team played at the right kind of intensity.

Intensity, yes .
Fitness, for sure ; the boys have finished a few games strongly. Yay, Burgess!

You can’t focus on all the other components of the game and ignore the fact we had more scoring shots and the umpires were favouring the other team. Not to mention no key forwards in Tex and Rankine, and Thilthorpe is only in his second game back.

2 more scoring shots, mate, is no big deal. 3 or 4 would have been rushed.
Yes, Umpires deffo favored Essendon wrt htb and tackling frees were bewildering (eg tackle on Berry, NO FREE, wtf?)

We played well, and it’s ok to say the coach had a decent game.

OK, ok, the CoachES had a decent game due to changes forced upon them, REactively. They filled gaps and plugged holes well.
I concede .
BUT
What'd Nicks do to slow/end their run of 8 goals? For that matter, what does he ever do to stop goal-runs??
(I'm really having trouble getting past Nicks' tactical ineptitude )

It’s also ok to hate our season,

I do, true .

but don’t conflate the season highlights and the individual game highlights.

I have no idea what that means, but thanks for a very reasonable reply, cheers .

 

[CrowBloke]

POST OF THE THREAD:

Good: my American partner knows nothing about footy but half watches the games with me. Her favorite player is Keays because she thinks he's performing in a musical while everyone else is playing sport. She also likes Fog because he has 'the biggest dump truck I've ever seen on a human'. Having both of them blitz made for a fun watch.

Great Post! (AmericanCrow)
I love that Ben Keays is always in Fast Forward mode, even when he doesn't need to be (although he could use a little more composure when not under pressure ).
The Keays/Fog/Hinge Show was a rare treat!

Max playing a like a 10 year veteran in his 2nd year, especially in the closing stages. Reminds me of Ben Hart so much. Looks like he'll fill out a bit more and play up the ground though.

He'll be a Club Champion and AA in 2-3 years.

Hinge's kick to Fog. Football as art.

Yes.
Beautiful goal.

Bonus good: watched the SANFL highlights and Toby Murray looks like a player.

Good enough to be promoted next week? We might need him in in the Ones.

Bad: Seeing the wasted opportunity in this season; our best football is as good as anyone's but with our inconsistency, we're a 6th-10th side. Thing is, 2-14 on the ladder are 6-10 sides. Carlton must be the weakest 2nd place side we've seen at this stage of a season, average teams like Port and Essendon are right in it for top 4. Seems crazy to talk about flags when we're bottom 5 but whichever of 11 teams that hit form over the next 8 weeks are a shot. Any of them will fancy their chances against a young Swans side at the G on grand final day. A couple more very attainable wins early this year and we'd be in that mix.

Agree totally.
Sydney look a shoo-in to get to the GF but if they have an off day any one of those 11 teams could steal the 2024 Flag.

Ugly: Huge sigh of relief with Murray but Butts likely season over. Those lisfrancs can be career threatening when they reoccur. He's still young and an important part of our team, the best tall we have at stopping the opposition. Hoping he gets back and can have a decent career.

Yes, it's sad about Butts.

 

[1970crow]

The best thing for me is winning that without Butts and Murray for over a half, without Tex or Rankine and without Dawson for most of the last quarter. That is ****ing huge for this club moving forward knowing it can be done without some key players.

Hopefully the cult of experience and continuity can be laid to rest.

 

[CrowBloke]

Jarman3
Replay's up online:

Match Replay: Essendon v Adelaide

The Bombers and Crows clash in round 19 of the 2024 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

www.afl.com.au

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Let's get back on topic. Great win by the Crows. Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

BOG easily. If he didn't kick the goal chances, are he helped create it.

 

[cleanhands]

Let's get back on topic. Great win by the Crows. Ben Keays BOG easily. If he didn't kick the goal chances, are he help create it.

Spoil sport

 

[Southerntakeover]

This is the best thread on the board since that time the activities of the cartel were exposed