Ramifications for all Australian Football Leagues

[Gunnar Longshanks]

You need to study the case of Adamson vs NSWRL. This isnt something to scoff at.....

Heres a start: http://www.phsolicitor.com.au/documents/Restraint-of-Trade-issues-in-elite-Australian-sports.pdf

And clearly you dont understand law in any capacity. Who cares what the NRL or AFL thinks if this unfolds in an unfortunate way.

Why don't you just outline the important parts for me?

And clearly you dont understand law in any capacity. Who cares what the NRL or AFL thinks if this unfolds in an unfortunate way.

It's true that I'm not a lawyer. Is restraint of trade applied differently in sport than it is in common law?

If you're an expert, why don't you fill in the gaps for me?

 

[Tigersman]

it's not about players working in another competition. it's about a player challenging the SC as a restraint of trade.......limiting earning capacity.

fair enough. was commenting more on the fact that any player who did would have an x on his forehead. would be a brave move by any player I reckon. I dont see the aflpa backing them down that path.

 

[weevil]

From what I remember the prevailing view a few years ago was that the cap would not actually stand up in court if someone challenged it. Would not put my house on it but I am pretty sure that was the vibe.

Guaranteed we are going to be hearing a hell of a lot more about this over the next few days/weeks/months.

 

[akazie]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24092832-5007132,00.html

Rugby league stars urged to quit for cash
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

By Paul Kent and Phil Rothfield

July 29, 2008 12:00am

A TEXT message urging league stars to abandon their clubs and accept lucrative international contracts confirms the NRL is under siege from player managers desperate to sign players with French rugby.

As the Sonny Bill Williams' saga continued to unfold, senior players - including Penrith star Frank Pritchard - admitted they wanted to break their contracts and join Williams in France.

The Daily Telegraph has obtained an SMS sent by Greg Keenan, the manager of star player Willie Mason, telling players he is working from London and offering them big money if they sign with rugby and take him on exclusively as their manager.

"G'day Nigel, it's Greg Keenan mate. I'm working out of my London office and have been doing a number of union deals in France," Keenan wrote to former Kiwi Test star Nigel Vagana.

"I'd be interested in putting you forward for a gig if you're keen but only if you'll sign an exclusive contract with me.

"Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, Greg."

Keenan is believed to be the conduit between French rugby club Toulon, where Sonny Bill Williams is headed, and Khoder Nasser, the architect of Williams' deal.

Neither Keenan nor Nasser are accredited by the NRL.

Some players Keenan is approaching are represented by other agents.

Their treachery comes as NRL chief executive David Gallop warned of a bitter battle ahead: "The consequences of breaching an injunction are he is liable to contempt of court proceedings. That can involve everything from arrest to seizure of assets. We're taking this very seriously."

The NRL was struck another blow with accredited player manager Steve Gillis revealing he has fielded calls from at least six players looking to go to France since Williams' defection on Saturday.

Yesterday Pritchard revealed he would be happy to quit the NRL and his club for French rugby.

Pritchard, who spoke with several French clubs at the start of the season, expected the huge cash on offer to lure many more NRL stars to Europe in the coming years.

But Keenan's actions have stunned many.

He is in Europe trying to induce more players to break their contracts - even as he has an application before the NRL to become an accredited player manager.

Vagana's manager Chris Orr slammed Keenan as "unethical" and said he texted Keenan directly back.

"I don't expect I will hear back from him," Orr said.

Keenan and Nasser have drawn widespread criticism over their double-dealings.

As well as being unaccredited by the NRL, Keenan is currently under investigation by the Rugby Union Players Association over third party payments.

Keenan's highest profile client is Sydney Roosters forward Mason, who just yesterday declared:, "Never say never" when the proposition of taking a French contract was put to him.

Strangely, Keenan has since emailed Gallop.

"You don't need to be alarmed as Willie and I understand what a contract is," he wrote

Damn cretins

 

[Van Queen]

Why don't you fill in the gaps for me?

Heres what I posted on League Unlimited regarding this issue, it does a better job of summing it up. From a 2002 SMH article

The leading case on the legality of salary caps is the 1991 Federal Court decision of Adamson v NSWRL. Because the case centred around a challenge to the system of trading players, the plaintiffs agreed that they would not challenge the validity of the salary cap.
But the Federal Court did note in passing that a salary cap could only be legal if it could be shown that it was in the interests of the players and the general public. If not, it would be an unfair restraint of trade, and hence illegal.

If Sonny Bill can make a case for this, then theres no reason why it cant unravel and happen. Hell, I agree with you that its unlikely to happen, but the sporting bodies have no real say in this. If they come under trade laws, they've got no option. Once again, Im not saying this is done and dusted - far from it - but it shouldnt be disregarded straight away.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

If Sonny Bill can make a case for this, then theres no reason why it cant unravel and happen. Hell, I agree with you that its unlikely to happen, but the sporting bodies have no real say in this. If they come under trade laws, they've got no option. Once again, Im not saying this is done and dusted - far from it - but it shouldnt be disregarded straight away.

He's a long way off making that case.

Why has it taken 17 years for someone to decide to do this?

I just wonder how many courts would be prepared to rule that the salary cap is in fact illegal.

 

[Van Queen]

He's a long way off making that case.

Why has it taken 17 years for someone to decide to do this?

I just wonder how many courts would be prepared to rule that the salary cap is in fact illegal.

Until now, there really has been no reason why a sports player would be in a position to argue the validity of salary caps. Players associations and players across all codes have been content with the money and structure in place, there was no reason to challenge it.

Sonny Bill wanted to leave, the NRL reacted, and now hes taking it up. It takes a special circumstance to create such a problem, but its finally arrived.

We can only hope that this is rubbished straight away, but its not good news that this course is being taken.

 

[Furn]

I dont get his argument that the Bulldogs could pay him more if there was no salary cap.

Aren't most NRL clubs in financial difficulty?

If there was no SC NRL salaries wouldn't suddenly go up would they ?

 

[Van Queen]

Furn - If there was no salary cap in rugby league, some salaries would go up as bidding wars take place for the best players. Sonny Bill would also be able to earn more money from endorsements and sponsors which he currently isnt able to do so under salary cap restrictions.

But yes, without private investors, a lot of clubs would be on the verge of collapsing

 

[akazie]

Some clubs would find it hard, but others would have the money to take on French Union clubs.

I'm wondering how much rusty would spend on his rabbitohs.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Until now, there really has been no reason why a sports player would be in a position to argue the validity of salary caps. Players associations and players across all codes have been content with the money and structure in place, there was no reason to challenge it.

Sonny Bill wanted to leave, the NRL reacted, and now hes taking it up. It takes a special circumstance to create such a problem, but its finally arrived.

We can only hope that this is rubbished straight away, but its not good news that this course is being taken.

But to what extent is the salary cap the issue here?

It would be one thing for a rich club to argue that they should have no limit on player payments, but how can an individual make the case that a salary cap of $8m a year limits his earning power?

Ultimately, his salary is decided by the club, according to how much they think he is worth relative to the rest of their list. It is Willaims' employer that places the limits on what he can earn.

Is Williams going to argue that he could earn more than $8m if there was no salary cap in place?

 

[Van Queen]

But to what extent is the salary cap the issue here?

It would be one thing for a rich club to argue that they should have no limit on player payments, but how can an individual make the case that a salary cap of $8m a year limits his earning power?

Ultimately, his salary is decided by the club, according to how much they think he is worth relative to the rest of their list. It is Willaims' employer that places the limits on what he can earn.

Is Williams going to argue that he could earn more than $8m if there was no salary cap in place?

It seems stupid doesn't it? Sports shouldn't be completely changed for one player. But hell, look at Jean-Marc Bosman, his case completely changed world soccer - for the worse a lot will argue.

I have no idea what Williams will argue ultimately, his lawyers will be a lot more knowledgeable one would think, but they would have to prove the salary cap doesn't serve its purpose, it limits the earning power (especially from things like sponsors), and basically that its not legal. Why has it taken so long? Because these things need a catalyst. As I said theres never been a reason to try and exploit this, until now really.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

It seems stupid doesn't it? Sports shouldn't be completely changed for one player. But hell, look at Jean-Marc Bosman, his case completely changed world soccer - for the worse a lot will argue.

I have no idea what Williams will argue ultimately, his lawyers will be a lot more knowledgeable one would think, but they would have to prove the salary cap doesn't serve its purpose, it limits the earning power (especially from things like sponsors), and basically that its not legal. Why has it taken so long? Because these things need a catalyst. As I said theres never been a reason to try and exploit this, until now really.

I can't imagine a judge ruling in Williams' favour.

Ultimately, the clubs determine what players earn, not the league.

 

[Van Queen]

I can't imagine a judge ruling in Williams' favour.

Ultimately, the clubs determine what players earn, not the league.

Not sure what you mean by that. I dont see how the clubs or the league have any say in this. Its up to the player to prove that the salary cap is illegal. Thats all they have to prove really...after that, its a snowball effect.

 

[Divado]

Surely a judge would tell $BW that he signed a cotract and he has to fulfill his obligations.

 

[Van Queen]

Surely a judge would tell $BW that he signed a cotract and he has to fulfill his obligations.

Toulon can buy out his contract. He doesn't have to fulfill his obligations.

Salary cap is a different issue though.

 

[m0nty]

European and Australian legal situations are very different. The Europeans have had case after case that destroyed restraints of trade set up by sporting organisations as their funding structures... soccer, rugby, horse racing, all have had to throw their old business practices up in the air and start again. There hasn't been anything so radical happen in Australia along those lines.

My feeling is that the local courts, if it ever got that far (BIG IF), would rule in favour of the sports. Cosy closed monopolies are the Australian way, it's a tradition. You just never know with all this globalisation and aligning of global legal environments though, with free trade agreements and whatnot there's no telling how powerful Europe's laws will end up being with their favoured trading partners.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Not sure what you mean by that. I dont see how the clubs or the league have any say in this. Its up to the player to prove that the salary cap is illegal. Thats all they have to prove really...after that, its a snowball effect.

I'm saying that the salary cap, in isolation, is not what limits a player's earning power.

Hence, it is not really illegal in its alleged restraint of trade.

 

[AngelEyes]

I think it is mere puff by Sonny Bill Williams.

I could understand if he was out of contract and a club was prepared to offer him more money than what they could fit in the salary cap. A salary cap does potentially limit what a club can pay and hence what a player can get paid.

However, Sonny Bill is signed up for another 4 years. I don't see how the salary cap effects him at this stage.

Surely, anyone cannot just challenge something because they want to cause some pay back?

 

[The Passenger]

I don't think it's going to cause the problems some are thinking it will in regards to the salary cap, but you never know.

the AFL without a salary cap would be a disaster....

i'm more concerned with the fact that he was just able to up and leave a contract in the manner that he did. jamie lyon's set a precedent some years ago in the NRL but he just went back to his home-town, did a bit of bar work and played some country rugby league then sorted out a deal in england. sonny bill has obviousbly had this lined up for weeks or months now.

If Sonny Bills is allowed to just walk out on his contract, what's to stop an AFL footballer challenging the trade and draft system as restraint of trade because it could possibly be construed that way. In the future, what's to stop an AFL player just upping from the Crows and going back to Sydney and saying i'm playing for the Swans and i'm signing a contract with them.... Sure the AFL can try de-registered him but that could surely be taken as restraint of trade then....

I don't know about this, it's not a good situation, and SBW should've done it the right way.

In all occupations an employee has a right to get out of a contract and there are methods about doing that, but he hasn't done it the right way and it could have far reaching consequences...

In saying that, if common sense prevails, the Bulldogs will just stop paying him (which i assume they already have), they then free up some salary cap space for some other footballers to bolster their squad, and SBW just pisses off to France, collect his money and Australian never hears of him again.

 

[markr]

The opinion pdf Van Queen linked to on the first page is worth a read, or at least skimming through. It basically says that reasonable restraint of trade is allowed in Australia but it must be reasonable for the two parties (the AFL and the player) and reasonable to the public. Now it's pretty easy to argue that salary caps are reasonable for the AFL and the public since they help the evenness and on-going survivability of the compeition, but is it reasonable with reference to the interests of the players? He doesn't clearly state an opinion. But seems to imply that you could atleast mount a defence.

On the other hand he doesn't seem to think that the draft would stand up, particularly if it was challenged in conjunction with the salary cap (basically, if the salary cap ensures competition eveness, then why do we need the draft?).

 

[jim boy]

I'd say the validity of the draft is possibly a less robust legal entity. Every other nomral occupation allows you to work in a geographic location of your choosing should there be a good match between you and the employer.

NRL - No Relevant Legalities

 

[Rik E Boy]

Sonny Bill Williams vs. The Salary Cap

Sonny Bill Williams will respond in the courtroom to the impending legal action by the Canterbury Bulldogs to his breach of contract by challenging the validity of the salary cap in the NRL.

This battle, also to be fought out in the courtroom could have massive implications for not only the NRL, but the AFL as well. If Sonny Bill, a 22 year old who is being led by the nose by a manager and a lawyer gets his way, this turn back the clock to the days prior to the introduction of the salary cap and drafting and in essence turn the AFL into Australian Premier League where the size of the bank account determines who wins the flag and not who is the best at managing their list.

I believe that if the salary cap where to go that it could cause irrepairable damage to our great game and would eventually lead to clubs shutting their doors permanently. I also believe that the NRL and the AFL shoud join fiscal forces here and hire the best legal team on the planet to defeat Sonny Bill's posse.

But do you even care? Perhaps your club would do better without the salary cap. Well, I do care and I would be against open market forces determining who wins the premiership. Sonny Bill must not be allowed to drag the AFL down with the ailing NRL and I believe both codes have a shared interest on this one.

regards,

REB

 

[Womble]

If you wanted to draw a long bow this is what could happen

SBW argues and wins a case saying the NRL salary cap is a restraint of trade - fair enough you'd think as it limits what he can earn.

NRL players all start pushing for pay rises in the new world of cap free NRL

A handfull of NRL clubs, 5 or 6 maybe, decide they can't survive in the new environment and merge or fold - the others and the newly merged entities go to war with each other with high profile backers to sign the best available players - players wages sky rocket to levels higher than during Super League (remember the problems BIG $'s caused back then)

What would happen to the AFL? Would players start thinking about playing league?? unlikely as it's a very different skill set - would kids/parents start thinking about their kids playing league where the BIG money is??? Has to be a possibility doesn't it? Joe is a champion athlete, could play any sport he wanted to - why would he pay AFL where he wages are capped???

Cap goes, clubs fold etc etc etc

A very long shot scenario but ......

 

[PrideOf]

If you wanted to draw a long bow this is what could happen

SBW argues and wins a case saying the NRL salary cap is a restraint of trade - fair enough you'd think as it limits what he can earn.

NRL players all start pushing for pay rises in the new world of cap free NRL

A handfull of NRL clubs, 5 or 6 maybe, decide they can't survive in the new environment and merge or fold - the others and the newly merged entities go to war with each other with high profile backers to sign the best available players - players wages sky rocket to levels higher than during Super League (remember the problems BIG $'s caused back then)

What would happen to the AFL? Would players start thinking about playing league?? unlikely as it's a very different skill set - would kids/parents start thinking about their kids playing league where the BIG money is??? Has to be a possibility doesn't it? Joe is a champion athlete, could play any sport he wanted to - why would he pay AFL where he wages are capped???

Cap goes, clubs fold etc etc etc

A very long shot scenario but ......

I would have thought that the AFL is interested in this case not necessarily because of the salary cap ramifications, but because they're about to pour millions into two key Rugby League centres.

Vlad and his henchmen have declared West Sydney and Gold Coast will happen regardless, but if SBW wins this, it changes the landscape significantly - both positively and negatively for the AFL.