Rating our list in terms of hardness, intensity & grunt.

[le dominateur]

Carlton has been exposed over the last 5 weeks, the opposition know how to beat Carlton, even GWS kids cracked in harder. We have been smashed in contested possession & clearances. GWS kids look bigger than 10 year players on our list. We have far too many soft, lightly built footballers, we aren’t going anywhere.

Tough, hard footballers – those who will block, sheppard for a teammate, run back with the flight of the ball, put their body on the line etc.
Duigan
Judd
Laidler
Simpson
Scotland
Robinson
Ellard

Soft – those that get pushed off the contest too easily, stand back and wait for a teammate to get the ball, don’t go when it is your turn, look for an easy out, wait for their opponent to get the ball, no intensity etc.
Gibbs
Betts
Yarran
Garlett
Russell
Lucas
Watson
Bower

The rest of our list is in between these 2 categories.

While Essendon & Adelaide were in the gym over summer putting on 5kg of muscle mass, we were running around the Middle East in 40deg heat losing 5kg of muscle mass to improve our endurance, yet we are failing to run games out.

 

[blues4flag]

Simpson is as courageous as they come.

 

[mediumsizered]

Simpson is as courageous as they come.

He can't be, he has no muscle on him.

 

[le dominateur]

cheers, think I forgot Scotland as well.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Carlton has been exposed over the last 5 weeks, the opposition know how to beat Carlton, even GWS kids cracked in harder. We have been smashed in contested possession & clearances. GWS kids look bigger than 10 year players on our list. We have far too many soft, lightly built footballers, we aren’t going anywhere.

Tough, hard footballers – those who will block, sheppard for a teammate, run back with the flight of the ball, put their body on the line etc.
Duigan
Judd
Laidler
Simpson
Scotland
Robinson
Ellard

Soft – those that get pushed off the contest too easily, stand back and wait for a teammate to get the ball, don’t go when it is your turn, look for an easy out, wait for their opponent to get the ball, no intensity etc.
Gibbs
Betts
Yarran
Garlett
Russell
Lucas
Watson
Bower

The rest of our list is in between these 2 categories.

While Essendon & Adelaide were in the gym over summer putting on 5kg of muscle mass, we were running around the Middle East in 40deg heat losing 5kg of muscle mass to improve our endurance, yet we are failing to run games out.

Actually, in the rare times when Betts is in the midfield he is very good in the clearance and excellent in traffic. Bower's dumb at times but not so much soft. Watson is more about a lack of confidence at this level more so than soft. Not unusual for a 19yo KP player. Time will tell there.

There's other's there that deserve to be in the soft category though.

 

[gbatman]

You only have to take a quick glance at the saints/WCE/Cats of last year/bombers/crows and then a look at us and can see the difference before a ball is bounced. They are bigger, they are stronger, they are much more powerful than us. We have recruited too many inbetween role/sized players and too many skinny weak blokes.

Guys have not physically developed all that well at Carlton. I was dissapointed when I saw us in the preseason, players are ment to have excess bulk and muscle at this stage of the season so that when they lose a bit as they always do when they resume playing, they aren't too light on.

Our strength and conditioning people should be sacked. We have world class facilities and a list of players built like marathon runners who get pushed around and smashed physically week in week out. Key position players who can't old their own and a midfield that gets pushed around from the word go. It's easy to beat us, just remove the space and stop us running.

We'd kill for dangerfield, sloan, thompson, lenny hayes types in our team but we have stuff all. Skinny kids on a list is fine but skinny mature players is crap.

Judd's lacking strength this year, Curnow has trimmed down far too much, Henderson's cooked against any decent playere one on one, Waite is miles away from being considered a big strong forward, Walker gets pushed around at ease, Simpson tries hard and throws himself around but not always to the best effect, we will wreck him and shorten his career if we have to have him getting smashed in the middle all the time, Robbo is strong but he's no Dangerfield etc, Kreuzer's lost a heap of muscle, Armfield and Ellard are fleas but they are tough, Bower folds under physical contact and gets pushed or held out too easily, Garlett is at risk of being taken away by a strong gust of wind, Gibbs is far too light and is always stopped at contests and lacks strength, Lucas is built like simpson but is soft and weak at the contest, Warnock is a stick figure and Collins could blow away with a strong breeze.

Now look at our stronger players. Carrazzo is injured, Duigan hasn't been going that well but is improving and doesn't lose contests, Jamison is coming into form, can win a contest, Laidler is injured, Mclean is a poor player with no intensity, despiration or pace, Murphy gets tagged hard and gets no help, also injured, Robinson tries hard but gets tired and lacks polish, Russell is a big strong guy with no idea how to use his size and strenght, is soft, has no footy brain and poor skills, Scotland is a good honest player but shouldn't be playing an inside role, it's not his thing, Thornton is just honest, Watson is developing, Yarran lacks maturity and hardness and a big of guts, Touhy is the goods.

Our recruiting and our strength and conditioning department have created a list that's poor at physical football. Not big enough. Not strong enough. Not hard enough at the contest but because of our physical limitations it can make it appear we aren't trying when all that is happening is we are getting beaten by bigger and stronger opponants. We are easily tackles, pushed off our line and beaten in contests. We have only a couple full of players who regularly win a 1on1 marking contest. When we tackle to opposition seem to be getting the ball away leagally. We just aren't up to speed on the other clubs in this area.

The bad news is there is no quick fix. Get the list on a decent weights program preseason and chase strong bodies onballers in the coming drafts.

 

[le dominateur]

That's depressing reading gbatman but I agree 100%, seems liked we have gambled the house on football turning into a running competition, not contested possession & clearances.

 

[Eddies Gurl]

Where is Carrots?

 

[le dominateur]

Where is Carrots?

He is in the middle group, used to be soft but has a harder edge these days, not convinced he is the saviour a lot on the board make out but at least he accumulates lots of ball and uses it fairly well.
Where would you place him?

 

[rolemodel133]

heros, people who say afl players are soft.. great topic this one

 

[Eddies Gurl]

He is in the middle group, used to be soft but has a harder edge these days, not convinced he is the saviour a lot on the board make out but at least he accumulates lots of ball and uses it fairly well.
Where would you place him?

If you have Duigan in the tough group you have to have Carrots there as well.

 

[Big_Luch]

Agree with most of the above..but what about the mental side of being tough and putting as much physical hurt and pressure on the opposition. Why is it when we make a mistake three opposition players run over to him and bump into him to let him know...yet when its the other way around our players just plod back to there position not letting the other guy we know you F'ed up and we are going to get into you.

Today murphy was being man handled at every stoppage by van berlo...did we send some one over to be the enforcer....NO....(these guys need to watch the bash brothers from the mighty ducks (haha i know)) but why do we tolerate our stars being treated like this?

Someone bumps or takes someone high on our team and none of our players bat an eyelid about it. Bloody hell go over there and lay some hurt.

Its time we started playing some un-sociable footy for gods sake.

 

[Azzurri Blue2]

Beside new franchuse clubs we are probably in the bottom four in regards to toughness and physicality...

 

[RedFury]

Was looking for the right place to post my comments and this is probably the thread.

I agree with a lot of others have said - is it just me or are we looking lighter than last year? Even guys like Murphy who were starting to bulk up a bit and look like contested tanks last year look lighter and fleeter this year.

Could it be that we've deliberately trimmed down in order to enhance our running game-plan and in the process completely underestimated the importance of grunt and contested footy?

I mean it .. we looked bigger and tougher last year. We looked, and were, more physically intimidating. Our run and carry was one important facet of our game but we could also be hard and tough when required. This year it looks like that aspect has been sacrificed and we're all about the fancy-prancy running game.

Contrasting this, a number of other teams who are being successful this year (Essendon, Adelaide) seem to have bulked up for some serious contested footy.

A serious miscalculation about the direction the game is going and what was going to cut it in 2012, perhaps?

 

[Krooooze]

Yes, teams have figured out how to beat us.

Unfortunately we don't have the coaching staff who can figure out an alternative game plan.

To say that our physicality is an embarrassment is an understatement.

Maybe instead of getting the players ringing unrenewed members they should have spent those valuable hours in the gym.

 

[95blues]

Agree with most of the above..but what about the mental side of being tough and putting as much physical hurt and pressure on the opposition. Why is it when we make a mistake three opposition players run over to him and bump into him to let him know...yet when its the other way around our players just plod back to there position not letting the other guy we know you F'ed up and we are going to get into you.

Today murphy was being man handled at every stoppage by van berlo...did we send some one over to be the enforcer....NO....(these guys need to watch the bash brothers from the mighty ducks (haha i know)) but why do we tolerate our stars being treated like this?

Someone bumps or takes someone high on our team and none of our players bat an eyelid about it. Bloody hell go over there and lay some hurt.

Its time we started playing some un-sociable footy for gods sake.

I was thinking the same... but you gotta have the bodies to dish it out first. Mitch wouldnt look like such a loony if there were other players in the side going as hard. I certainly wouldnt be too keen on getting "unsociable" with Gibbs and crew behind me.

they just need to be smarter, stop trying to break tackles, use your first option and attack the footy instead of being a seagull.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

You only have to take a quick glance at the saints/WCE/Cats of last year/bombers/crows and then a look at us and can see the difference before a ball is bounced. They are bigger, they are stronger, they are much more powerful than us. We have recruited too many inbetween role/sized players and too many skinny weak blokes.

Guys have not physically developed all that well at Carlton. I was dissapointed when I saw us in the preseason, players are ment to have excess bulk and muscle at this stage of the season so that when they lose a bit as they always do when they resume playing, they aren't too light on.

Our strength and conditioning people should be sacked. We have world class facilities and a list of players built like marathon runners who get pushed around and smashed physically week in week out. Key position players who can't old their own and a midfield that gets pushed around from the word go. It's easy to beat us, just remove the space and stop us running.

We'd kill for dangerfield, sloan, thompson, lenny hayes types in our team but we have stuff all. Skinny kids on a list is fine but skinny mature players is crap.

Judd's lacking strength this year, Curnow has trimmed down far too much, Henderson's cooked against any decent playere one on one, Waite is miles away from being considered a big strong forward, Walker gets pushed around at ease, Simpson tries hard and throws himself around but not always to the best effect, we will wreck him and shorten his career if we have to have him getting smashed in the middle all the time, Robbo is strong but he's no Dangerfield etc, Kreuzer's lost a heap of muscle, Armfield and Ellard are fleas but they are tough, Bower folds under physical contact and gets pushed or held out too easily, Garlett is at risk of being taken away by a strong gust of wind, Gibbs is far too light and is always stopped at contests and lacks strength, Lucas is built like simpson but is soft and weak at the contest, Warnock is a stick figure and Collins could blow away with a strong breeze.

Now look at our stronger players. Carrazzo is injured, Duigan hasn't been going that well but is improving and doesn't lose contests, Jamison is coming into form, can win a contest, Laidler is injured, Mclean is a poor player with no intensity, despiration or pace, Murphy gets tagged hard and gets no help, also injured, Robinson tries hard but gets tired and lacks polish, Russell is a big strong guy with no idea how to use his size and strenght, is soft, has no footy brain and poor skills, Scotland is a good honest player but shouldn't be playing an inside role, it's not his thing, Thornton is just honest, Watson is developing, Yarran lacks maturity and hardness and a big of guts, Touhy is the goods.

Our recruiting and our strength and conditioning department have created a list that's poor at physical football. Not big enough. Not strong enough. Not hard enough at the contest but because of our physical limitations it can make it appear we aren't trying when all that is happening is we are getting beaten by bigger and stronger opponants. We are easily tackles, pushed off our line and beaten in contests. We have only a couple full of players who regularly win a 1on1 marking contest. When we tackle to opposition seem to be getting the ball away leagally. We just aren't up to speed on the other clubs in this area.

The bad news is there is no quick fix. Get the list on a decent weights program preseason and chase strong bodies onballers in the coming drafts.

 

[mike ockerts]

Agree with most of the above..but what about the mental side of being tough and putting as much physical hurt and pressure on the opposition. Why is it when we make a mistake three opposition players run over to him and bump into him to let him know...yet when its the other way around our players just plod back to there position not letting the other guy we know you F'ed up and we are going to get into you.

Today murphy was being man handled at every stoppage by van berlo...did we send some one over to be the enforcer....NO....(these guys need to watch the bash brothers from the mighty ducks (haha i know)) but why do we tolerate our stars being treated like this?

Someone bumps or takes someone high on our team and none of our players bat an eyelid about it. Bloody hell go over there and lay some hurt.

Its time we started playing some un-sociable footy for gods sake.

Or as dermie once said "draw a line in the sand"

 

[woopedazz]

I thought Carlton brought some bite in the 1st quarter. Players going out of their way to run into Crow players and let them know it's going to be a tough game. Just couldn't sustain it. I don't see them being able to sustain it against most teams this season due to the pre-season clearly being directed at skill work and endurance as opposed to strength. If they train the house down in the weights room will their endurance suffer and will they be able to change their game style to suit their bigger bodies (assuming they can bulk up while playing a season)?

The first quarter was a great contest of two teams going hard at it.

 

[thylacine60]

And the first 800 of the Melbourne Cup is interesting as horses sort themselves out. Hardly relevant in the wash-up.

 

[Krooooze]

The first quarter was a great contest of two teams going hard at it.

Yeah it was, but what good is it when you can't sustain it? Typical of our last month. It was absolutely crazy seeing the difference in body size in close. Thompson, Dangerfield and Sloane, whilst all guns, are so much better physically built than any our mids, who are all twirps in comparison.

 

[Peete]

hard to be intense - when the other guy is usually 30% bigger - every week.

thas all I am sayin about it.

 

[smashbox gill]

WE NEED TO POACH THE WEAPON FROM ESSENDON!

look what hes done, he transformed geelong the last few years into huge contested hard at it players. and look whats hes done to essendon in the preseason.

WE NEED THE WEAPON as BT would say. We need him to sharpen our strength and conditioning

 

[thylacine60]

Can't see Prismall making that much difference but worth a look.

 

[ESKIE]

Can't see Prismall making that much difference but worth a look.

Gasp, stop that