Ratten, good bad and indifferent

[Cheech14]

The thoughts expressed in this thread are so reminiscent of what was written on this board about Pagan prior to his depature. Posters basically made him out to be incompetent and having no idea whatsoever about how to coach, same as they are saying about Ratten now. I'm not a big fan of Ratten as coach but are problems run alot deeper than bad coaching. You can't blame poor recruiting and lack of player development entirely on him. I still believe that Pagan was the best coach for this coach and i will continue to believe that no matter how much i am ridiculed or abused on this board. He lost his job due to the whiny and sooky nature of the majority of the membership who cannot handle seeing the club in any position but the powerhouse of the AFL. I remember starting a thread back when there was discussion about what players should go to WC in the Judd deal. Alot of people were concerned about losing Kennedy so I started a thread suggesting we offer Hampson. Of course i was abused, ridiculed and shouted down by the majority of the numbskulls on this board at the time who believed that Hampson was going to be a superstar. Perhaps mediumsizered might feel delving further into the archives and bumping that thread. That would be my ultimate revenge.

Pagan at least had a track record to fall back on.

While I want Ratten to get sacked it's not his fault in a lot of ways because he had little to no credentials to warrant being hired as a senior AFL coach in the first place.

ALL of that blame has to go to those who hired " a mate" for the job instead of someone who offered more in terms of either having a solid record working with other top coaches or in successful programs.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Now listen, if you're going to put one guy on notice for making an out of line comment (which I think is fair enough), then you must also put others on notice for out of line comments. 40yB said this forum is filled with empty headed morons. ODN took a shot at me saying that this place is trying to encourage people to post here and how me saying something like Gibbs shit himself is going to drive people away. Well I would imagine saying the forum is full of empty headed morons is even more off-putting would you not agree? Or is 40yB in the Cadbury Favourites box?

I've said it many times before and I will say it again. Posters do not know what actions we take. Reported posts are actioned. If they are out of line they are usually deleted and often warnings and infractions are handed out. I will say that there are issues with the infraction system at present and some that are issued apparently have not registered. This new site is a learning curve and there are bugs still.

The softer action we take is to PM or fire a shot at someone in-thread to get it on track again. Just because you get an in-thread check and someone else doesn't, it doesn't mean we haven't dealt with the issue, possibly to a higher degree. People assume too much.

40year will be the first to admit he doesn't always see eye to eye with Carlton moderators and I didn't get a xmas card from him so ....

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Let's face it, if we do knock Collingwood off this week, we'll all be carrying on like he's Mandrake.

However, the lack of youth coming through is a concern, and considering we are not a serious threat for the flag, would hope he gets pro-active and plays a few more of the NB boys, not saying gift games to players, but lets face it, that's what got him the job in the first place.

Wouldn't sack him mid-season, but would seriously sit down with him right now and see what direction he wants the club heading, and review at seasons end.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Let's face it, if we do knock Collingwood off this week, we'll all be carrying on like he's Mandrake.

However, the lack of youth coming through is a concern, and considering we are not a serious threat for the flag, would hope he gets pro-active and plays a few more of the NB boys, not saying gift games to players, but lets face it, that's what got him the job in the first place.

Wouldn't sack him mid-season, but would seriously sit down with him right now and see what direction he wants the club heading, and review at seasons end.

Not a question to you specifically but considering many on this board want all the coaches sacked IF we fired Ratts tomorrow or he quit who would we accept as interim coach?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Not a question to you specifically but considering many on this board want all the coaches sacked IF we fired Ratts tomorrow or he quit who would we accept as interim coach?

Well that's the thing isn't it? Same thing happened at Hawthorn a couple of years ago, huge expectations, season ruined by injury, so Clarkson said rightio and played the list, got games into blokes and they came thundering back into town within a couple of years. Reckon we are in a similar position, the young blokes running around in the magoos are high end draft picks, so lets have a look at them. At least it shows Ratten is pro-active.

Don't want to end up with that Essendon situation with Sheedy where every year they scraped into the 8, his ego stayed intact, yet the arse fell out of the club.

 

[RattAttack]

A month back when we were looking ahead to our next 4 game stretch - versus Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn & Collingwood - many predicted that we may lose all 4 games. And if we did it could spell the end for Ratts.

So far we are 3 losses from 3. If Collingwood make it an even 4 losses this week and do so by close to 100 points I think Rattens papers will be stamped.

Player discontent and member backlash is a nasty combination. Not saying its right, but pretty sure history will show that when you have that combination the coach generally will fall on his sword. The Board have to be seen to be doing something and this is generally the easiest thing to do to save face.

Just hope we don't go down the Malthouse/Roos path. If we go for a new coach then I hope it's someone like a Scott Burns, Nathan Bassett, Ken Hinkley or even Peter Sumich.

 

[mike ockerts]

Well that's the thing isn't it? Same thing happened at Hawthorn a couple of years ago, huge expectations, season ruined by injury, so Clarkson said rightio and played the list, got games into blokes and they came thundering back into town within a couple of years. Reckon we are in a similar position, the young blokes running around in the magoos are high end draft picks, so lets have a look at them. At least it shows Ratten is pro-active.

Don't want to end up with that Essendon situation with Sheedy where every year they scraped into the 8, his ego stayed intact, yet the arse fell out of the club.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FRIGGIN THIS!!!!!!!!!!
Well put (enter many thumbs up here)

 

[blue gunslinger]

Well that's the thing isn't it? Same thing happened at Hawthorn a couple of years ago, huge expectations, season ruined by injury, so Clarkson said rightio and played the list, got games into blokes and they came thundering back into town within a couple of years. Reckon we are in a similar position, the young blokes running around in the magoos are high end draft picks, so lets have a look at them. At least it shows Ratten is pro-active.

Don't want to end up with that Essendon situation with Sheedy where every year they scraped into the 8, his ego stayed intact, yet the arse fell out of the club.

Then they would be expected to make big calls on players like Brock Waite Scotland, send Judd Kreuz etc to the hospital and forget about plan B just let the kids play. Will look like tanking but will not be. Would they be willing to look that bad?

I am fine with that idea.
Would that be enough to save his job or just be his out deal?

 

[Red Bull]

The 3 options you have named would seem to be not interested in coaching anymore.

Roos always made it clear he didn't want to be a career coach. Matthews has stated on a number of occasions that he no longer has the coaching bug & as per TG's post above, it would seem Malthouse has probably had enough as well.

On this basis, any coach appointed to replace Ratts would more than likely be a novice. So are you replacing your coach for someone better, or for the unknown?

So we rule out Mathews , Malthouse and Roos as experienced coaching canditates ,
(I dont believe for 1 minute that Roos and Malthouse are out of the equation)
If we dont think any other coaches with senior experience fit the bill that leaves , as you say , novice coaches .

So ... do we flounder along with a coach who is clearly not the answer ??

Or ... do we go through a proper process (which we all know wasnt done last time) and find the right man for the job ??

Every great coach in history started as a novice , we cant be afraid of that , the point is , this time around , whoever that man may be ,the club must go about the selection process the right way !!!

 

[sherb]

I've said it many times before and I will say it again. Posters do not know what actions we take. Reported posts are actioned. If they are out of line they are usually deleted and often warnings and infractions are handed out. I will say that there are issues with the infraction system at present and some that are issued apparently have not registered. This new site is a learning curve and there are bugs still.

The softer action we take is to PM or fire a shot at someone in-thread to get it on track again. Just because you get an in-thread check and someone else doesn't, it doesn't mean we haven't dealt with the issue, possibly to a higher degree. People assume too much.

40year will be the first to admit he doesn't always see eye to eye with Carlton moderators and I didn't get a xmas card from him so ....

I don't agree with the Carlton moderators all the time either, one in particular. I've also had run ins with mods elsewhere on this site.

However, I'll stick up for the job they do. As someone who has moderated on other sites, it's hard work and time consuming. And often you can't win.

Football isn't the only thing on this board that people make judgments about without having any idea of the full story or what is going on behind the scenes.

Some of those who bag the mods should have a go at it one day. That will shut them up. Also, it wouldn't hurt them to familiarize themselves with the sitewide rule - not just a Carlton board one - which prohibits bagging moderators.

 

[blue gunslinger]

So we rule out Mathews , Malthouse and Roos as experienced coaching canditates ,
(I dont believe for 1 minute that Roos and Malthouse are out of the equation)
If we dont think any other coaches with senior experience fit the bill that leaves , as you say , novice coaches .

So ... do we flounder along with a coach who is clearly not the answer ??

Or ... do we go through a proper process (which we all know wasnt done last time) and find the right man for the job ??

Every great coach in history started as a novice , we cant be afraid of that , the point is , this time around , whoever that man may be ,the club must go about the selection process the right way !!!

Rocket Eade still sounds like he would take any gig

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Then they would be expected to make big calls on players like Brock Waite Scotland, send Judd Kreuz etc to the hospital and forget about plan B just let the kids play. Will look like tanking but will not be. Would they be willing to look that bad?

I am fine with that idea.
Would that be enough to save his job or just be his out deal?

Reckon the coaching panel should be accountable, as everyone at the club should be.

Trend I have noticed with coaching panels nowadays, is there are a heap of former coaches as assistants, Thompson, Williams (3 premierships out of those 2), Craig, Laidley, Eade, Harvey, Bailey, etc. It's another set of experienced eyes looking over teams offering a different perspective.

Maybe we should go down that path.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Reckon the coaching panel should be accountable, as everyone at the club should be.

Trend I have noticed with coaching panels nowadays, is there are a heap of former coaches as assistants, Thompson, Williams (3 premierships out of those 2), Craig, Laidley, Eade, Harvey, Bailey, etc. It's another set of experienced eyes looking over teams offering a different perspective.

Maybe we should go down that path.

Not happening at Freo! Not that their example is ideal- just saying as a giggle

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Not happening at Freo! Not that their example is ideal- just saying as a giggle

Too me that whole We are Carlton **** the rest is a bit of an albatross around our neck. I keep going back to the fact that we haven't won 4 weeks in a row in over ten years, yet pre-seaon we are making all sorts of big statements and looking back, the old arrogance had returned, yet we were the same Carlton we had been for years. I got the impression everyone thought it was simply a matter of us turning up, and it would happen automatically.

But the way the game changes tactics wise, which is almost monthly, we seemed to think our pre-season setups were the be all and end all, which it certainly hasn't turned out to be.

 

[mediumsizered]

So we rule out Mathews , Malthouse and Roos as experienced coaching canditates ,
(I dont believe for 1 minute that Roos and Malthouse are out of the equation)
If we dont think any other coaches with senior experience fit the bill that leaves , as you say , novice coaches .

So ... do we flounder along with a coach who is clearly not the answer ??

Or ... do we go through a proper process (which we all know wasnt done last time) and find the right man for the job ??

Every great coach in history started as a novice , we cant be afraid of that , the point is , this time around , whoever that man may be ,the club must go about the selection process the right way !!!

The assumption should not be made that there will be a "this time around". I have never been an advocate for sacking a coach to appease an angry mob.

As I have already posted a number of times, I believe there may be a need for a full review of the club from top to bottom at the end of the season. If the review recommends changes to the coaching panel, then go for gold. This is the only reason any of the coaches should be removed. Knee jerk sacking of coaches is the behaviour of a club with no strategy & who make policy on the run. You don't achieve success that way.

 

[Silvagnis]

The Malthouse interview is on this link...

Malthouse quashes Carlton rumour

"I'm not really interested in going any further than saying never-say-never," Mick said. "But the never-say-never is getting closer to never."

Malthouse said that he is more than capable of managing a football club again, but the more time he spends away from the game, the less likely he is to embark on a comeback.

"I miss coaching, it's part of my DNA, but there comes a time when you need to give it up...Many straining things are involved in a full season of football other than coaching.

"I'll never take on a job if I don't look at the ramifications it has on the whole being," Malthouse said.

Malthouse quashes Carlton rumour

Last thing you want is a coach who is 50-50 about coaching again.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Too me that whole We are Carlton **** the rest is a bit of an albatross around our neck. I keep going back to the fact that we haven't won 4 weeks in a row in over ten years, yet pre-seaon we are making all sorts of big statements and looking back, the old arrogance had returned, yet we were the same Carlton we had been for years. I got the impression everyone thought it was simply a matter of us turning up, and it would happen automatically.

But the way the game changes tactics wise, which is almost monthly, we seemed to think our pre-season setups were the be all and end all, which it certainly hasn't turned out to be.

we are a rather excitable tribe are we not! I guess after so much pain we are eager to be winners again. Unfortunately no such thing as a free lunch. Takes hard work and a degree of luck on and off the field

 

[sherb]

I never knew that Tommy Alvin wore a wig.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

we are a rather exciatable tribe are we not! I guess after so much pain we are eager to be winners again. Unfortunately no such thing as a free lunch. Takes hard work and a degree of luck on and off the field

No doubt about it.

The last week has been pretty low for this famous club, Hyde resigns, we get walloped, now I hear the senior coach wasn't in the mood to front for a press conference. Okay they are cliche riddled wankfests, but surely we can put some other member of the coaching panel out in front of the cameras instead of a total no-show.

You never see Buckley or Hird out the front, it's always Eade or Thompson and honestly, Ratten isn't the most media savvy bloke in the world, the week before the Port game, he's suddenly got his recruiters hat on and is sounding out Travis Boak, and I'm thinking shouldn't you be focused on the game at hand?

 

[Mr.X]

Amazing this thread has gone to 10 pages.

It's fairly simple;

Top 4 was the aim in season 2012

While still a possibility, it's now looking unlikely

As a result, coach must be axed

/end thread

 

[blue gunslinger]

Amazing this thread has gone to 10 pages.

It's fairly simple;

Top 4 was the aim in season 2012

While still a possibility, it's now looking unlikely

As a result, coach must be axed

/end thread

axe him now or at end of season? Who replaces him now/then? What other changes occur at the club?
Who is making those yummy Muffins at Princes Park?
Nothing is ever simple

 

[BROWN20]

The Malthouse interview is on this link...

Malthouse quashes Carlton rumour

Malthouse quashes Carlton rumour

Last thing you want is a coach who is 50-50 about coaching again.

It is very unlikely Malthouse would be open in this type of interview, as he would be fully aware of the impact that it may have on Carlton right now if he openly indicated he was keen to coach again, similar to James Hird last year.

 

[Krooooze]

It is very unlikely Malthouse would be open in this type of interview, as he would be fully aware of the impact that it may have on Carlton right now if he openly indicated he was keen to coach again, similar to James Hird last year.

Couldn't agree more. I think Mick is the king at trying to put a subtle spin on things. I listened to interview on 3aw earlier today and couldn't help but giggle. He will do everything in his power to avoid answering questions directly about coaching again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Malthouse state half way through last year on the footy show and towards the latter end of the season when asked about his future that he "expects to fulfil" his contract at Collingwood in the role of director of coaching? We all know how that ended up, don't we?

If you think that fire doesn't still burn for Mick Malthouse, then I honestly believe you're sadly mistaken.

 

[40yearBLUE]

It is very unlikely Malthouse would be open in this type of interview, as he would be fully aware of the impact that it may have on Carlton right now if he openly indicated he was keen to coach again, similar to James Hird last year.

So when Malthouse says he isnt interested he really is, when Sticks says they havent spoken to Malthouse they really have, when Sticks and Swan say Ratts job is secure it really isnt.......no wonder religions have such an easy time attracting followers.

 

[ESKIE]

So when Malthouse says he isnt interested he really is, when Sticks says they havent spoken to Malthouse they really have, when Sticks and Swan say Ratts job is secure it really isnt.......no wonder religions have such an easy time attracting followers.

One of your better posts 40yb...lol