Ratten, good bad and indifferent

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Go_Blues! said:
This is a fascinating discussion. I watch the games and read the papers like everyone else but for whatever reasons can't get to the same conclusions. I know that this has been a disappointing season - really disappointing but I really am not close enough to conclude that this is because of any particular reason. So we have had a lot of injuries but I can't say if that is because of the training approach or just luck. If we are operating to worlds best practice and guys get injured, I would think that is just bad luck.

Similarly, I have no idea if the coaching staff are at fault. Perhaps our list is not as good as we thought it was. That would be another expaination but not sure about that either because they were pretty good last year but so was the coach.

What I am sure of though, is that the coach has not "lost" the playing group. I played footy for 20 odd years and played under a number of coaches and never found myself in an environment where the players were not playing for the coach or lost confidence in the coach. I don't really even understand what this means. You go out there week after week and follow instructions as best as you can. When you lose games you usually end up reflecting on the things that you could have done better. I never thought about the things that the coach could have done better.

Anyway, I think this season is unacceptable but will be happy for the post-season review by people who are close to the game and the club to really figure out what went wrong. Perhaps I am not as smart or know as much about football as the majority on this board but the conclusions being reached really seem a little baseless.
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Excellent post.

I think what is common to a lot of people is that we have to have an explanation for everything, and for the weak of mind, there has to be someone to blame when things dont go to plan.

I mentioned as an aside in another post, that it is no surprise that religions have so little trouble recruiting new faithful. Part of this is because people search for answers to questions they dont have the answer for and religion pretends to have them. For me, there are just things I dont know and I dont care that I dont know. For things like the footy club, I trust there are people that do know and I trust them to know what to do armed with all the information I dont have. You mentioned worlds best practice and I have no doubt that we employ worlds best (or at least AFL best practice although I know we travel to other places to study other practices, it is where the high altitude bandwagon started (one I dont particularly believe in but then I dont have all the facts). So in a year where everything fell apart, I just chalk it up to bad luck. It happens. In fact, in more lucid moments everyone agrees you need good luck as an ingredient to winning a flag, so why is it any surprise when we have a lot of bad luck that we cant make the top 8? Why is it ok to believe you need it to succeed but not ok to accept that if you have the opposite, the opposite to success happens?

Our coach, our gun players, were plenty good enough last year to suggest that with just a little improvement in luck (not within our control) and the things within our control, like fitness and skill, and execution that a top 4 spot would be the next step. We had a lot of bad luck with injuries. It exposed us in areas we need to improve, which is the positive to take from it, and players we had come to expect would deliver (Judd, Walker, Kruze, Garlett and others) have had down years. There is still nothing evident (plenty of negative posters but no evidence) to suggest that perhaps next year it will all come together for us. The players are capable, the coach is capable, the administration is capable. All we need is some good luck and the will to stick to the plan and put it all together on a consistent basis.
 
40yearBLUE said:
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Empty words to fill empty meaningless posts on a nothing forum filled with peoples opinions and little more than that, ever.
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Of course that is what a football forum is - why do you hate that so much? (you should change that sig or retire gracefully - it is clearly against your principles to be on here)
If you really think it contributes to some sort of media power - start polls to see whether things are vast majorities or whatever :rolleyes:

40yearBLUE said:
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It is for me purely entertainment. About as informative as Big Brother. Totally fake and just for fun. So who in their right mind would want people from this place having any influence whatsoever.
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It is for fun - you have admitted that your fun is going to be righting wrong and showing up people to be morons (cannot be bothered looking for the quote from a couple of weeks ago) that suggests a sick personality.
If this forum is for fun then how are you fostering this by ridiculing people - are you making this place fun for them. You are not alone in doing this (it could be said that I am at fault right now) but you have stated that ridiculing is your 2nd favourite sport. We have all ages on this board, you have no idea who you are talking to nearly all of the time - so just tone it down and try 'nice' if you are going to stay on this 'shite' board (according to your sig)
 

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40yearBLUE said:
If they have genuine insight they would get it right every time. They are guessing just as much as you or I are. Of course there are people with contacts everywhere, but I dont believe for a moment that these people post to forums like this. I saw one "respected" poster know for getting early mail on selections get some wrong and utter surprise that his contact had let him/her down. Or, what is much more likely imo, he/she was pretty well informed and made educated guesses that more often that not turned out to be right, and then, as is the nature of guesstimates, he/she got a few wrong, and belling the cat that it was a guessing game all along. And what is more, the catch22 of this place is that it is so full of rubbish (rubbish posts and therefore rubbish posters) that if you did have an inside link, this would be the last place you would air the information. So no, your argument did not convince me. As much as people would like it to be so, no, there is no-one in here of any consequence.
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genuine insight is getting it right every time?
i never had such ridiculous expectations so i don't share the same disappointment when that happens, but i'm grateful when it does prove right.
i wouldn't go so far as to say you're attempting to sully their reputation, but there's quite a few people here grateful for their presence regardless of your opinion of them.

you make some interesting comments about the state of this forum, compared to what you said earlier about people complaining about the state of the football club board. nomination to be on it, or shutting up about it.
 
The Coach said:
Of course that is what a football forum is - why do you hate that so much? (you should change that sig or retire gracefully - it is clearly against your principles to be on here)
If you really think it contributes to some sort of media power - start polls to see whether things are vast majorities or whatever :rolleyes:


It is for fun - you have admitted that your fun is going to be righting wrong and showing up people to be morons (cannot be bothered looking for the quote from a couple of weeks ago) that suggests a sick personality.
If this forum is for fun then how are you fostering this by ridiculing people - are you making this place fun for them. You are not alone in doing this (it could be said that I am at fault right now) but you have stated that ridiculing is your 2nd favourite sport. We have all ages on this board, you have no idea who you are talking to nearly all of the time - so just tone it down and try 'nice' if you are going to stay on this 'shite' board (according to your sig)
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So start on a poll on a board I believe is full of morons as to whether the majority of the morons are morons?

I hate what this forum is. You are absolutely correct on that score. I hate what it is because of what it could be. Many people believe footy is like religion. Not sure if you have ever been to church, I used to go until I was old enough to think for myself, but at church there is no debate as to whether the pope ought to be the German bloke, or if the Archibishop should be replaced. I would prefer this was a place where we didnt have to defend our club from people professing to be one of us.

As I have pointed out a number of times, the posters that want to wallow in self pity or rage against the club or need scapegoats have plenty of places to go on big footy to feed their inadequacies. I would very much prefer not to have to have these debates with people that clearly have no idea what they are talking about. I understand I am not talking to people that have a real insight. I dont make any judgements about players or coaches performances because I am not in possession of their instructions, their fitness to perform or any of the other variable that go into performances. I can only make guesses. But I make it clear I have no idea and I dont call for anyone to not get a game or to be sacked. Its not why I am here. But I find it is the only discussion in town when we lose or are on a losing streak.

But if this place is just for idiots to feel important with big talk of who should be sacked, who should never represent the club again etc etc then I am here to tear those posters arguments apart. It is not my preferred option. I tongue in cheek called it my second favourite spectator sport. You find a way to keep the talk positve and just see what I can contribute to that. In lieu of that, I will indulge in my second favourite sport. It is for me fun. With all due respect, if you dont like it, you too have the options you offer me.
 
40yearBLUE said:
So start on a poll on a board I believe is full of morons as to whether the majority of the morons are morons?

I hate what this forum is. You are absolutely correct on that score. I hate what it is because of what it could be. Many people believe footy is like religion. Not sure if you have ever been to church, I used to go until I was old enough to think for myself, but at church there is no debate as to whether the pope ought to be the German bloke, or if the Archibishop should be replaced. I would prefer this was a place where we didnt have to defend our club from people professing to be one of us.

As I have pointed out a number of times, the posters that want to wallow in self pity or rage against the club or need scapegoats have plenty of places to go on big footy to feed their inadequacies. I would very much prefer not to have to have these debates with people that clearly have no idea what they are talking about. I understand I am not talking to people that have a real insight. I dont make any judgements about players or coaches performances because I am not in possession of their instructions, their fitness to perform or any of the other variable that go into performances. I can only make guesses. But I make it clear I have no idea and I dont call for anyone to not get a game or to be sacked. Its not why I am here. But I find it is the only discussion in town when we lose or are on a losing streak.

But if this place is just for idiots to feel important with big talk of who should be sacked, who should never represent the club again etc etc then I am here to tear those posters arguments apart. It is not my preferred option. I tongue in cheek called it my second favourite spectator sport. You find a way to keep the talk positve and just see what I can contribute to that. In lieu of that, I will indulge in my second favourite sport. It is for me fun. With all due respect, if you dont like it, you too have the options you offer me.
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just to clarify is number 1 Lingerie Football?
 
dumb said:
genuine insight is getting it right every time?
i never had such ridiculous expectations so i don't share the same disappointment when that happens, but i'm grateful when it does prove right.
i wouldn't go so far as to say you're attempting to sully their reputation, but there's quite a few people here grateful for their presence regardless of your opinion of them.

you make some interesting comments about the state of this forum, compared to what you said earlier about people complaining about the state of the football club board. nomination to be on it, or shutting up about it.
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When I go to the doctor I expect him to know about medical stuff. If I need a lawyer I expect him to know the law. These are real experts in their fields. I dont expect them to be wrong. I dont expect them to be guessing however educated their guesses are. I understand people make mistakes, even experts or people with access to experts or connections. But mistakes are not 50/50 prospects. The mail you get here is. It is guess work. Educated guesswork from some I agree. But guesswork none the less. But lets say for example (silly I know but go with it) that Ratts posted to this board incognito and cared about his on forum rep. Do you think he would ever get it wrong with regard to who was being played this week? Ever? No, I dont think he would, because he would not be guessing.

So if someone has a genuine in, unless that in is the cleaner, they would not be getting it wrong only slightly less than they got it right. That is what happens when one is guessing. When one has a genuine in, then the wrong is very rare. Not the case here. As much as you like to think that we have important or connected people here, it makes us all feel we are in good company, sadly we are not. If we ever were, they long ago realised this was not the place for them and they left.
 
40yearBLUE said:
Such a pile of stinking bullshit it hardly deserves comment. But I am a sucker for punishment.
Do you have the first idea about logic? Any at all, or do you just spew the thoughts out in random order and hope they somehow make some sense?

You whine that Essendon cleaned house and got a dream team coaching panel and look at them now and mention we smashed them last year......with the bloke coaching that you now want to sack.

You whine about players such as Walker and Garlett that lead our goal kicking last year and I can only assume you blame the coach? You are aggrieved that they have proven they can play and are having a poor year, if you apply the same logic you apply to the coach (except you are loathe to admit he has proved he can coach, despite taking us from finishing bottom 4 five out of six years previous to him taking over to finishing top 8 3 out of 4 years since) then they ought to be delisted or traded along with all the others on your list that have underachieved this year. Judd, Murph, Kruze, Gibbs you even find a way to be critical of Eddie.........you are so full of hate that your posts are bordering on the lunatic now.

Larfing my arse off that you can even find a way to criticize Robbo for soccering a goal....I can only imagine the kind of whinging he would have got had he let it bounce and it didnt bounce through only to have a defender tap it through......yep, as I thought, you have so much bile inside you it has reached all the way to what is left of your common sense. Soccering it through was the percentage play. It does not matter in a team game where everyone is playing for each other not themselves who's boot the goal comes off, but somehow you can construe this action as being selfish....the mind just boggles at your lack of clear thinking.
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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH


3636_picture_of_an_angry_old_man_waving_his_cane.png
 
40yearBLUE said:
So start on a poll on a board I believe is full of morons as to whether the majority of the morons are morons?

I hate what this forum is. You are absolutely correct on that score. I hate what it is because of what it could be. Many people believe footy is like religion. Not sure if you have ever been to church, I used to go until I was old enough to think for myself, but at church there is no debate as to whether the pope ought to be the German bloke, or if the Archibishop should be replaced. I would prefer this was a place where we didnt have to defend our club from people professing to be one of us.

...........................

But if this place is just for idiots to feel important with big talk of who should be sacked, who should never represent the club again etc etc then I am here to tear those posters arguments apart. It is not my preferred option. I tongue in cheek called it my second favourite spectator sport. You find a way to keep the talk positve and just see what I can contribute to that. In lieu of that, I will indulge in my second favourite sport. It is for me fun. With all due respect, if you dont like it, you too have the options you offer me.
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You hate it - you are the one who should go

Nothing wrong with you arguing points with others but you are abusive. Your opening sentence once again proves that. Tell me again, then again you have told me once, why you should be able to ridicule people and make it a less fun place for them - make sure you INCLUDE THIS in any reply

I am sure religion would not have been for you - you would have had to be the infallible Pope :D
 
blue gunslinger said:
top 4
OK is there a person who has a gig at the Olympics who does not strive to win gold but is there just to make up the numbers,,.you set loft goals and then try to reach them. It was a message to say we have progressed from wanting to not win a spoon, to making finals , to winning finals and then now we push to win a flag. Did we believe we had a flag gifted to us-no. It was what the team and fans looked fwd to.
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That top 4 talk is embarrassing to look back on. Teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Collingwood let their actions do the talking. Kieran Jack today said their form during the year means nothing come the end of the year...ie he isn't talking big on where he expects the Swans to finish. It is a different mentality. Carlton did their talking before they did their walking. These other teams never said "top four", "top four" "top four" etc.

I would hope Carlton can still sneak into the top 8. That would make the season redeemable in some way...but I hope anytime they are asked about their ladder position they just say "we are taking it one game at a time". No TALK, no "we expect to play finals" stuff.

It starts with good team selection. 3 ruckmen in a team is madness. Get some leg speed back in eg Lucas.
 

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Strange how some people are allowed to spray a much derogatory BS about posters AND the forum a they like - but seem to have an immunity pin?

Maybe instead of playing and coaching for 20 years - I should have been a pom pom waving tea and scone chear leader ?? - and hence have earned immunity.
Very Funny 40 yr wot-ever - seriously - you know jack S.... about what it takes to win in a man on man game.
 
Tanks_Alot said:
I'm surprised you haven't been carded with the way you speak to people on this forum. You have to realise that not everyone is going to have the same opinion and when there's something they've said that you don't agree with, then make an argument against what they said but don't attack them saying things like they're idiots or empty headed morons. It just makes you come across as a keyboard warrior.



In this day and age, you can't blame journalists for turning to forums to get the general idea on how supporters feel about where their club is going. How else will they get this type of info? Take calls? Well they do that too, many radio stations take calls and there are angry supporters that ring up and say the same stuff that angry supporters say on here. At the end of the day, the club wants to keep the supporters happy because that is where they will get their revenue from, so if supporters aren't happy and are voicing their opinion on the forums, then I don't really blame the Journalist for using that to spark discussions.



Well ericpascoe has always had good inside info, and he also believes Ratt's time is up.

And saying that we have no idea so we shouldn't express our opinion is just stupid, what do we have a forum for?
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Agree totally, 40 YO needs to take a chill pill and relax, can see this post being closed down again shortly for the exact same reasons as the previous Ratten discussion was, and we all know why.
 
Reckon 40YO adds a shitload to this forum. He is an indefatigable debater and puts a lot of time into his contributions. Unfortunately he - like myself - tends to slip down the cranky slope whenever we suffer a losing phase. I have looked back on comments I have made with some horror, noting my writing mood often swings with the team's performances and the arrival of the arseclownes consequently attracted by the club's misfortunes. He might deny it but it's clear to see.
 
I think the Ratten (mega thread) was a more respectful and all encompassing thread and only hit the last page of this thread out of boredom. I had/have no intention to read a whole thread about whether the coach should be sacked and I guess it was stupid to reply to 40yo. I can imagine 40yo telling a publican how little he thought of his establishment - sorry just day dreaming

murbysbouncer.jpg
 
blue gunslinger said:
would love to re-read some of those threads. You remember all the furore when so and so had been seen arriving at somebody's door and this guy had it in the bag. It is going to be another circus
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Have had a bit of a look back. Apparently Vossie was signed, sealed & all but delivered, as was Roos.

Interesting to see which posters started threads calling for the removal of Pagan & who nominated Ratts as the replacement.
 
thylacine60 said:
Reckon 40YO adds a shitload to this forum. He is an indefatigable debater and puts a lot of time into his contributions. Unfortunately he - like myself - tends to slip down the cranky slope whenever we suffer a losing phase. I have looked back on comments I have made with some horror, noting my writing mood often swings with the team's performances and the arrival of the arseclownes consequently attracted by the club's misfortunes. He might deny it but it's clear to see.
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The day you have a sig like his and still stay around then you know you are addicted to cranky.

Mods will want to close this thread - fair enough but we will always have new coach threads (maybe ones with more tasteful titles?)
 
mediumsizered said:
Have had a bit of a look back. Apparently Vossie was signed, sealed & all but delivered, as was Roos.

Interesting to see which posters started threads calling for the removal of Pagan & who nominated Ratts as the replacement.
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crickey - hope there is no egg on my face. Have chilled out a lot since then.
 
Stig O'Hara said:
As i recall, through all the herbal haze, that was the mysterious week the threads vanished.
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the sorry thing MSR probably just did actually drag out all those threads and posts so he can be accurate. Was bad enough going through it once. Tell me MSR the general standard of posts and posters then to now. Have we progressed in quality>?celtic pride would have been in the house
 
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