Ratten, good bad and indifferent

[40yearBLUE]

Your point is so flawed. Why on earth do you think Jeanne Pratt is on our board?

Read. Think. Write.

You definitely skipped one of those those three steps old timer.

No I have not skipped one of the processes at all. Jeannie Pratt does not get any more say than I do. If she wants to be on the board she has to nominate and face the members just as I do. If she was to say to members, vote me onto the board or I would take my money elsewhere I would never vote for her. But if my peers (the rest of the members do) I will still be a member and cop it sweet. That's how democractic organisations work. You are free to leave, you are even entitled to whinge as the door swings closed behind you, but we dont have to cop your whine without telling to to GTFO. What the other poster said was that he would downgrade his membership if certain changes were not made. He equated his level of membership continuance with some form of getting his way and if not then he would withdraw. It is exactly the same as saying I put more money in so I get my way. It does not work that way, it did once and look where that got us.

So perhaps you might want to rethink your posting after first reading the entire thread, thinking about the ramifications of what is being suggested, argue it out to its logical conclusions then post?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Right, but lets see what happens for the rest of the season first. If the season ended today, I think Ratten would find it tough to justify his role, but the season still has 9 or 10 matches to go. If we won all of them (and I know that is not going to happen), I think we would probably keep him.

I dont think Ratts would have any trouble justifying this season at all. If we had no injuries to speak of then he might, but even on a cursory glance at the circumstances of the season so far (and to come) then he has nothing to fear imo. And I have absolutely no doubt at all he will see out his contract. What I cant yet tell is if he will get another extension. We will see who is living in fairyland.

 

[blue gunslinger]

after next week we may go a decent run and win 6 to 8 games - definately a possiblility. Will make things interesting. Big test for individuals, the team unit, the depth brigade and the coaches. I am sure the board will also be of the mind to lets see how they react.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Was one of the very vocal calling for Pagan's head, and after he got sacked we pretty much had no takers for the job, Voss knocked it back and Ratten as interim was in the right place.

He's done a terrific job to get the list up to scratch, but the way we have been hammered in games, and I mean over by half-time, that can't be fitness.

Realise there is a defence coach, forward coach and plenty of other blokes with clipboards and stern faces, but the malaise is pretty much across the board.

I recall after we got hammered during the pre-season, Ratten said something along the lines of playing as many of the younger players to see if they were up to it. Since then I think we have played one first season player, Bootsma.

The whole bloody thing has gone pearshaped.

 

[gbatman]

I wouldn't chase Malthouse as a coach, becuase that would be like getting Pagan, we don't need some old has been, despite his 'past success'..THIS is the problem with Carlton ALWAYS DWELLING ON OUR PAST!! Ratten is a perfect example, KERNAHAN another, those guys won flags 20 years ago and the game has changed radically since then, they still think they are heroes from the 90s!

Ratten has been an OK coach, not a great one, people like him because he is a nice guy, down to earth, not a JohnElliot/Kernahan style arrogant nob. Ratten never had a long term VISION for Carlton that went beyond, 'I've got Chris Judd and I will build a team around him', we are still Judd centric, even more so.

No. Pagan had a pathetic list and might have got somewhere if we stuck with him, also Malthouse has the record behind him to suggest not chasing him would be a poor choice.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Was one of the very vocal calling for Pagan's head, and after he got sacked we pretty much had no takers for the job, Voss knocked it back and Ratten as interim was in the right place.

He's done a terrific job to get the list up to scratch, but the way we have been hammered in games, and I mean over by half-time, that can't be fitness.

Realise there is a defence coach, forward coach and plenty of other blokes with clipboards and stern faces, but the malaise is pretty much across the board.

I recall after we got hammered during the pre-season, Ratten said something along the lines of playing as many of the younger players to see if they were up to it. Since then I think we have played one first season player, Bootsma.

The whole bloody thing has gone pearshaped.

Who was the last contender? Was it Bluey Mckenna? I doubt he would have done any better in development. Knowing us we may end up with Sumich or Whiskers Hocking

 

[JG38]

We ave enough ex Colingwood people running amock - do we really need more?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Who was the last contender? Was it Bluey Mckenna? I doubt he would have done any better in development. Knowing us we may end up with Sumich or Whiskers Hocking

Would be head-hunting Nathan Bassett as a Development Coach.

 

[Big_Luch]

Gina Rinehart just called, said she would buy 10000 memberships, all she wants is a place on the board for her and her daughter and she insists we appoint Terry Wallace coach. What do you say Luch? Is the club for sale depending on the level of membership?

I heard Nathan Tinkler has always wanted to play, how bout if he poured in a couple of mil, can we fit him onto our list and play him at Full Forward? He knows he is a bit out of condition but he swears that for every game he plays he will chuck in another wad. How about it Luchy, you seem to think that if you pour in enough money you get a say in things....(JEANNIE PRATT SAYS HI)...

Sorry im not going to give money to the club who piss it up against the wall on trips to Qatar, stoppages coach (stoppages have gone backwards), panel of coaches not getting it done etc.

When the club makes positive moves and changes i will once again up my membership as i would see it moving in the right direction. Also you talk about me thinking if i pour money in the club i should get a say.....what on earth are you on about? we are talking about a $600 membership here for gods sake.

Also on your terrible 'voting rights' arguement....this isnt a government election. This is a football club with members, supporters, employees, board etc etc. I can vote and i can withdraw my support if i do not like what they are doing. Both of those actions 'speak' to the board, instead of ignorant people like yourself who are happy to just keep giving the club cash.

You lambast me and call me a disgrace for being a fair weather supporter (even though all i said id do is reduce my membership) yet you dig into a fellow supporter of the same club. Im sorry but that is much worse and looks much worse when you have supporters from the same club having a go at each other...we are supposed to be rooting for the same team. But you feel the need to get on your high horse and proclaim people this n that on your shakey social ideals. Out of interest what elevel of membership do you have? does it really matter what level anyone has anyway??????? by your logic people with the standard membership are fair weather supporters because they purchase the affordable option.

 

[cookie monster]

No I have not skipped one of the processes at all. Jeannie Pratt does not get any more say than I do. If she wants to be on the board she has to nominate and face the members just as I do. If she was to say to members, vote me onto the board or I would take my money elsewhere I would never vote for her. But if my peers (the rest of the members do) I will still be a member and cop it sweet. That's how democractic organisations work. You are free to leave, you are even entitled to whinge as the door swings closed behind you, but we dont have to cop your whine without telling to to GTFO. What the other poster said was that he would downgrade his membership if certain changes were not made. He equated his level of membership continuance with some form of getting his way and if not then he would withdraw. It is exactly the same as saying I put more money in so I get my way. It does not work that way, it did once and look where that got us.

So perhaps you might want to rethink your posting after first reading the entire thread, thinking about the ramifications of what is being suggested, argue it out to its logical conclusions then post?

Do you think that the more words you write, the more likely you are to be believed? God almighty.

Do you think it's just a coincidence that Raph Geminder and Jeannie Pratt are both on our board? The board was coerced into voting them in given their contributions. Our board operates under the false pretense of 'democracy'.

And forget about what Luch said, you tried using a piss poor argument to have a crack at him. I called you out for it and you're getting all upset.

FWIW, Ratten will probably not be there in 2013. You are a looney tune if you think he categorically cannot be removed. But hey, wouldn't be the first time one of your steadfast opinions goes to water (Essendon supporters may know what I'm talking about)

 

[blue gunslinger]

Sorry im not going to give money to the club who piss it up against the wall on trips to Qatar, stoppages coach (stoppages have gone backwards), panel of coaches not getting it done etc.

When the club makes positive moves and changes i will once again up my membership as i would see it moving in the right direction. Also you talk about me thinking if i pour money in the club i should get a say.....what on earth are you on about? we are talking about a $600 membership here for gods sake.

Also on your terrible 'voting rights' arguement....this isnt a government election. This is a football club with members, supporters, employees, board etc etc. I can vote and i can withdraw my support if i do not like what they are doing. Both of those actions 'speak' to the board, instead of ignorant people like yourself who are happy to just keep giving the club cash.

You lambast me and call me a disgrace for being a fair weather supporter (even though all i said id do is reduce my membership) yet you dig into a fellow supporter of the same club. Im sorry but that is much worse and looks much worse when you have supporters from the same club having a go at each other...we are supposed to be rooting for the same team. But you feel the need to get on your high horse and proclaim people this n that on your shakey social ideals. Out of interest what elevel of membership do you have? does it really matter what level anyone has anyway??????? by your logic people with the standard membership are fair weather supporters because they purchase the affordable option.

by all reports that Qatar trip to an elite training facility was a great success for fitness and for team solidarity. Got them out of their comfort zone. Players have raved about it.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Sorry im not going to give money to the club who piss it up against the wall on trips to Qatar, stoppages coach (stoppages have gone backwards), panel of coaches not getting it done etc.

When the club makes positive moves and changes i will once again up my membership as i would see it moving in the right direction. Also you talk about me thinking if i pour money in the club i should get a say.....what on earth are you on about? we are talking about a $600 membership here for gods sake. So in other words, when we start winning again. Some call it fair weather, I call it pissweak.

Also on your terrible 'voting rights' arguement....this isnt a government election. This is a football club with members, supporters, employees, board etc etc. I can vote and i can withdraw my support if i do not like what they are doing. Both of those actions 'speak' to the board, instead of ignorant people like yourself who are happy to just keep giving the club cash. So go, the sooner the better imo, we ought to be weeding out the shit supporters that have preconditions attached to their loyalty, if I have a criticism of the club, it is that they dont have a suitability test instead of just a fee to be paid. Perhaps then we might not have the quantity but we would at least have quality supporters. Off you go, I would encourage you to go sooner rather than later. It is after all your right.

You lambast me and call me a disgrace for being a fair weather supporter (even though all i said id do is reduce my membership) yet you dig into a fellow supporter of the same club. Im sorry but that is much worse and looks much worse when you have supporters from the same club having a go at each other...we are supposed to be rooting for the same team. But you feel the need to get on your high horse and proclaim people this n that on your shakey social ideals. Out of interest what elevel of membership do you have? does it really matter what level anyone has anyway??????? by your logic people with the standard membership are fair weather supporters because they purchase the affordable option.

So you dont like members having a go at other members but you have no trouble having a go at Member 1018372, or the president and other board members that offered him a 2 year (as far as I know, not conditional) contract just 8 months ago. You find it quite reasonable to bag the club and threaten to withdraw some of your support if you dont get your way. I say go, take your money with you and hopefully do not come back when we are winning again. I would prefer you just left as quickly and quietly as possible. But I realise that is highly unlikely, whiners like you prefer to kick and scream and hold your breath until you get the outcome your tantrums call for.

 

[Go_Blues!]

I dont think Ratts would have any trouble justifying this season at all. If we had no injuries to speak of then he might, but even on a cursory glance at the circumstances of the season so far (and to come) then he has nothing to fear imo. And I have absolutely no doubt at all he will see out his contract. What I cant yet tell is if he will get another extension. We will see who is living in fairyland.

So that is just silly. The injuries have been a major issue but you need to look at that with balance. Why I said that we need to wait for the end of the season is that many of those injured will be back by then and we need to see the impact of that. However, more players will miss weeks and the coaches performance needs to be considered in the context of may aspects. To say he has nothing to fear is plainly wrong. If he stays or if he goes, there is no doubt that right now he would be feeling pretty uncomfortable.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Do you think that the more words you write, the more likely you are to be believed? God almighty.

Do you think it's just a coincidence that Raph Geminder and Jeannie Pratt are both on our board? The board was coerced into voting them in given their contributions. Our board operates under the false pretense of 'democracy'.

And forget about what Luch said, you tried using a piss poor argument to have a crack at him. I called you out for it and you're getting all upset.

FWIW, Ratten will probably not be there in 2013. You are a looney tune if you think he categorically cannot be removed. But hey, wouldn't be the first time one of your steadfast opinions goes to water (Essendon supporters may know what I'm talking about)

If you didnt vote for the current board, vote again next time, if you dont get what you want, suck it up or GTFO, its a pretty simple equation. Or better yet, nominate for the board yourself? No? I didnt think so. ALL whine no action.

 

[40yearBLUE]

So that is just silly. The injuries have been a major issue but you need to look at that with balance. Why I said that we need to wait for the end of the season is that many of those injured will be back by then and we need to see the impact of that. However, more players will miss weeks and the coaches performance needs to be considered in the context of may aspects. To say he has nothing to fear is plainly wrong. If he stays or if he goes, there is no doubt that right now he would be feeling pretty uncomfortable.

I have no doubt he would be feeling uncomfortable because like most of us he likes to, plans to, tries to win. But I doubt very much he would be scanning seek.com on a regular basis. He would be very comfortable in the value of the contract he has and the word of the president and the board. I am sure he fronts them on a regular basis to report and that would be true win or lose. I have no doubt in the integrity of the club now. None whatsoever. I do however doubt the courage of our pea hearted fans.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Maybe it's just me, but the impression I get is that if Ratten goes, Kernahan would probably step down.

There's a lot of vindictive, sneaky buggers in those back rooms at Carlton, who are quite happy to stick a knife in from the shadows.

The old joke used to be 200k gets you on the board at Carlton.

 

[BROWN20]

I dont think Ratts would have any trouble justifying this season at all. If we had no injuries to speak of then he might, but even on a cursory glance at the circumstances of the season so far (and to come) then he has nothing to fear imo. And I have absolutely no doubt at all he will see out his contract. What I cant yet tell is if he will get another extension. We will see who is living in fairyland.

A very simplistic view, yes we have won 3 out of our last 11 for a supposed top 4 list, yes why not just blame our injuries no other issues at all, glad you are not running my business, at what point would you have a degree of concern about what exactly is going on at Carlton.

 

[Go_Blues!]

If you didnt vote for the current board, vote again next time, if you dont get what you want, suck it up or GTFO, its a pretty simple equation. Or better yet, nominate for the board yourself? No? I didnt think so. ALL whine no action.

So this again is a pretty silly post. You really drive your agenda. I am mostly aligned with your views and am happy for the club to decide what to do next but seriously, nominating for the board is not really an option for most of us. The make-up of the board is mostly the "big end of town" which is proper. To say that some random dude on the internet should run for the board is like saying, "if you don't like the performance of the players you should nominate for the draft". I understand your point but most of us know that a role like that is beyond us. We pay memberships to get the best people for the roles the club needs to fill.

I have issues with the way this country treats boat-people. I complain but I am not going to run for prime minister because I don't have the skills to do the job.

I do agree with the first part of your post though - we, as members, collectively, have full control over this club. Democracy is wonderful and we get to exercise that privilege once a year.

 

[40yearBLUE]

A very simplistic view, yes we have won 3 out of our last 11 for a supposed top 4 list, yes why not just blame our injuries no other issues at all, glad you are not running my business, at what point would you have a degree of concern about what exactly is going on at Carlton.

If I were running your business I am sure you would thank me for not listening to a bunch of airheads on a forum that have no idea (actually less than no idea) what is actually happening.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

So just to be clear, you are saying that you think this guy should be a caretaker coach based on a radio interview? Look, I am not sure what will happen to Ratten at seasons end but I think we should use a bit more than radio interviews to determine who coaches us.....What I think is important is that we try to salvage what we can from the year. I think it probably is time to start planning for next year. I think if Ratten is coaching next year or not, we should start working on structure and get some games into kids. If Ratten or someone else is coaching then, it will benefit the club either way.

Maybe you should learn to read. I said caretaker coach and also said in my post that merely being able to speak well in interviews doesn't make a coach but that Richardson had been talked up as a good developer of talent - so don't appreciate your smart-ass response !

My quote
" I know being able to speak well does not make the coach but he comes across as a decisive and firm personality as opposed to Rattens (as EP described it) garbled, cliche ridden style. Prior to coming to Carlton he was talked up as a good developer of talent."



You then go onto say that to salvage something from the year 'we should start working on structure and get some games into kids' - gee, going out on a limb there with that radical plan . If Ratten was able to impose some 'structure' we wouldn't be in this bloody mess.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

How many people do you have to argue with 40yb? Seriously do you have nothing better to do?

We're not the only team predicted to finish top 4 to suffer from key injuries, the Eagles and Pies have as well and yet they have still performed well enough to win most of their games. otoh, we have been bullied and we've been too soft to step up. That is Ratten's fault. The players need to bleed for the jumper and continuously Gibbs, Garlett and others were in poor form and not putting their head over the ball and they still got selected regardless.

 

[Blue Flame]

I bet you backed Denis Pagan to the hilt as well until the day he was sacked.

Pagan did a lot wrong, and it is OK to not like him, but surely we shouldn't be criticizing a football supporter for supporting the coach of his team given most of us have no inside information.
I don't know if he supported him or not, but even if he did, I don't think we should criticize.

Duigan is nothing special, has great courage but is slow thinking and reckless at times. Serviceable at best.

He's been pretty handy, and battled manfully last night. We would kill for half our list to be "reckless at times." You can criticize the fails, sure, but the successes should not be turned into failures for the purpose of making one's point.

 

[Red Bull]

i was in gosford recently and saw a very strange thing .
i was driving down a certain street and every house in that street bar one had a 4 sale sign in the front yard ....
??????????????????

 

[40yearBLUE]

So this again is a pretty silly post. You really drive your agenda. I am mostly aligned with your views and am happy for the club to decide what to do next but seriously, nominating for the board is not really an option for most of us. The make-up of the board is mostly the "big end of town" which is proper. To say that some random dude on the internet should run for the board is like saying, "if you don't like the performance of the players you should nominate for the draft". I understand your point but most of us know that a role like that is beyond us. We pay memberships to get the best people for the roles the club needs to fill.

I have issues with the way this country treats boat-people. I complain but I am not going to run for prime minister because I don't have the skills to do the job.

I do agree with the first part of your post though - we, as members, collectively, have full control over this club. Democracy is wonderful and we get to exercise that privilege once a year.

Thats a fairly lame post brother member. If you seriously dont like the way the club is being run you absolutely can nominate. In fact if you feel strongly enough and think you can muster the support (I think you only need 150 members signatures) you can call for an extraordinary general meeting. I mean, why wait, right? But regardless of what you might feel about anything you will need to be able to carry a majority with your views, whether in the club of the country, if you want to see things go your way. And thank whoever you call your god for that. Otherwise we would have about 3 players on our list and have had 10 coaches in the last couple of years.

 

[40yearBLUE]

i was in gosford recently and saw a very strange thing .
i was driving down a certain street and every house in that street bar one had a 4 sale sign in the front yard ....
??????????????????

Bwa ha ha, are you a professional stand up? did you hear the one about the total douche on the internet forum?