Rd 5 West Coast v Sydney Preview and Match Thread

[Eagle87]

THIS, it is going to take time( read 50 games) under our young midfielders belts before we know how good this team can be.

Might be handy if we played our young mids, in there proper roles, in the midfield ....

Unfortunately Wooshas innate conservatism is hurting us at present ... You have to have an offense or the other team wins ... Our Kerr-less midfield today had no hurt factor and Sydney just ran forward all day ... Our talentless hard workers congested the play but eventually, Sydney got it into space and just ran forward completely free ... That's because they aren't worried about us going the other way...

This requires a change in midfield strategy that our coaches refuse to countenance, that's caused by one of two things - too conservative OR no faith in the kids ...

Either way, it's not helping us long term to get more game time into Priddis, a Selwood, McGInnity and Dalziell

 

[Underrated]

So your position is that we weren't too bad today and let's just hang in there and it will all come together with experience. That's summarizing what little actual content is in your posts.

The reality is that we have a completely and utterly inept midfield and our players seem to be regressing.

That's cause for concern. Our coaches believe we are a top 8 side. So in that sense they disagree with you.

If we were getting belted because we were exposing our kids for the future then fine, but we aren't, we are getting belted because we have a terrible on ball/midfield division (rucks aside) and the coaches response is to restructure the forward line, to restructure the back line and to keep rolling on with the same talentless, slow hacks ....

The concern is that we aren't just playing kids and losing, we aren't playing them (where they are needed)...

There are sound reasons for concern at present and today was nothing but a huge negative. Cox getting better is meaning less time for NN, a player who thrives when he is involved ... So even that's a meh outcome ... Waters was a positive today, as was Hams, Schofield was good but none of these help as we have done zero to address our primary weakness, the midfield ...

The coaching staff has addressed this weakness recruiting midfielders in the last 3 drafts, its just that the young guys have no support from the experienced players at the moment.
Look at Sydney. (Kirk,O'Keefe,Bolton,Goodes,McVeigh,Kennedy.)
These mature GOOD footballers make it alot easyier for Jetta,Jack and Hannabery to play footy as they have great support from their experianced teammates.

 

[Eagle87]

So you suggest dropping Selwood and Priddis and getting Swift and say Sheppard in plus Shuey (when back from injury) into the midfield?

I don't disagree but we will still have to wait it out.

Well, that would at least let us see the future and maybe bring it about more quickly. Would I drop the ones you've mentioned? Maybe. Would I shift them to support roles (at most)? Absolutely.

We need to find another 100 minutes a week for the kids in the centre square.

 

[bodazoka]

The concern is that we aren't just playing kids and losing, we aren't playing them (where they are needed)....

I dont think we have the cattle on the list to have a premiership winning midfield in 2-3-4-5 years even if we do play them. I think we need another trip down the bottom of the ladder this year and also seriously look at trading Kerr.

As good as he is he just cant compete, its like having a Wells or a Tambling on the list. Not to mention he is obviously injury prone recently and theres still a chance that he could return to his suspension days.

Would you consider trading Kerr to the GC for a top 5 pick + something?

 

[Kama6]

I think Woosha sends the boys out to, not lose by too much.
Lets kick some goals get the boys patting each other on the back etc.
Have we stopped running? I mean gut running.

 

[Eagle87]

The coaching staff has addressed this weakness recruiting midfielders in the last 3 drafts, its just that the young guys have no support from the experienced players at the moment.
Look at Sydney. (Kirk,O'Keefe,Bolton,Goodes,McVeigh,Kennedy.)
These mature GOOD footballers make it alot easyier for Jetta,Jack and Hannabery to play footy as they have great support from their experianced teammates.

But Jetta (wing), Hannabery and Jack (inside) get to play prolonged minutes in their preferred roles too.

Our experienced mids are getting all the time - why?

 

[Underrated]

But Jetta (wing), Hannabery and Jack (inside) get to play prolonged minutes in their preferred roles too.

Our experienced mids are getting all the time - why?

Fair enough, For some reason we are reluctent to play Masten in the midfield, he seems a little hesitant to me when in the guts, Hannabery plays mostly outside mid which suits with Kirk and Bolton winning the hard ball, Basically Sydney have the core of their 05,06 team in the midfield still playing good footy,
making their youngsters transition alot easier. Ours are at Richmond and Carlton

 

[materamagic]

Not as many turnovers as previous weeks but our kicking efficiency is getting worse. Midfield was absolutely slaughtered and as expected Swan's half backs tore us apart.

 

[footballfreak]

Happy that we are steadily improving with the skills. We were slightly more efficient today, Waters was the star today and did everything that was asked of him. Kennedy also played well and Hams was the only bloke on the whole team who knew how to deliver the ball in to the forward 50. There were some questionable moves by Woosha today

eg
Schofield as a forward
Masten as a forward
Brown as a defender ???
Keeping Spangher on the team

Spangher was awful today the quicker he gets dropped the better off our team would be. Today he was at times matched up on Adam Goodes and we all know what result occurred

I really do think we should kick Selwood and Priddis out of the midfield. It's been 5 games now and they can't seem to influence any of the games. Sure they get high numbers but they aren't damaging and you know they are more likely to turn the ball over. Woosha needs to keep faith with the young blokes just leave Masten, Ebert, Shuey, Swift, S Selwood in the centre. Like he did during the end of year. We all know Masten is a genuine midfielder and he was a star in the pre-season when he was playing there. He is being wasted in his position. Our young midfielders will learn a lot during the whole season. He just needs to have faith in them, which he doesn't seem to have. I think A selwood is better off as a half-back flanker.

 

[The Passenger]

oooo man what a bitterly disappointing game. that was a horrible horrible horrible performance. can't win games of football when you can't get your hands on the ball. we were just completely decimated through the midfield.

our ball use again was ordinary. i'd love to see the stats this year on what % of our kicks are marked by the opposition. i can't imagine we wouldn't be in the bottom 2 or 3 clubs. and today our ball handling was horrible - andrew embley being the main culprit fumbling easy ball at least half a dozen times.

unfortunately, today was a day which had far more negatives than positives. losing wasn't unexpected, but losing the way we did, which could've/should've been far worse from a scoreboard perspective, was just not good enough.

we were absolutely blitzed in the midfield. 12 of the top 14 disposal-getter's were swans players - you simply can't win games of football when that happens.

I don't know what more to say. that was just awful and the scoreboard was bad enough but would've looked a lot worse had the swans been able to execute in front of goals.

a few individual questions have to be asked this week

Matt Spanger - he's gonna cop it on this board and the rightly so. what is his actual positive role in the team?? defensively he's not bad, but he's not spectacular. offensively he's horrible. ineffective rebounding and effective rebounding are two vastly different things, and really a team is better off with a defensive player who doesn't try to rebound (like McKenzie) than a defensive player who constantly turns it over in his attempts to rebound (like Spangher)... it's all well and good applauding blokes for giving it a go, and he is still not even 30 games into his career, but as it stands these constant turnovers are killing us. the intent is there, but the execution is ordinary at best.

andrew embley and adam selwood. whilst they aren't neccesarilly playing badly, they aren't playing to the level we need them at to help the young fellas around them. it's frustrating when you see a guy like Ryan O'Keefe who has matured and is now a genuine top line player in the competition... whilst embley, who was basically on a par with o'keefe (or not far behind) during the premiership years, has gone backwards.

chris matsen - what is going on here?? something is up. it's just bizaare that he is getting next to no game time in the midfield. he's a runner, he's still got a long way to go in getting his fitness up to the level required to be a top line AFL midfielder, but he's only gonna get that by getting in the midfield and showing his wares. but if we were being honest, he is actual contributions when he gets the ball haven't been great this year at all.

mitch brown - not quite in dire straights yet, but he needs to stand up and start making an impact. has been pretty quiet this year. he looks fit and raring to go, but to be fair what AFL player doesn't. This is his fourth year in the system (admittedly after losing a year), and he is now starting to get to the point where we can no longer continue to say, "in 3 years time he is going to dominate"... he's not at that point yet, but it's getting close. we all know that the talent is there.

anyway, as a team we just aren't gelling at all. Kennedy and LeCras don't seem to have the same chemistry they did last year, but on the positive side we've got 24 games out of the two of them so far and there is a lot of immediate upside in these two. on the averages so far this year that is 100+, and given the improvement i think there is in these two that could end up around the 120 mark by seasons end.

the midfield is clearly not working. how many times to the swans players just go streaming through the middle, at times seemingly unopposed.

the only part of our team that is working ok is the defence, but when they are just under the pump the whole game through then there is not much they can do.

ashton hams was good again. he's got good use of the ball, and he's a goer. it's just a shame he's so bloody small. there's still no reason why he can't make it as a footballer, but just his sheer lack of height will mean he's always facing a battle. even still, there are plenty of footballers his height and shorter who have made it, so the opportunity is there for him now. the big thing at the moment is just trying to get his hands on the ball more, but on today's performance you can't single out any individuals for this - it was just a complete team problem.

lewis stevenson looks pretty solid. he's got nice poise for a youngster - didn't panic in a few situations that were a bit tricky to deal with. kicking's not too bad either.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Observations from the top deck of the Trumper stand:

A few players we rely on heavily had pretty woeful games. LeCras, Glass, Hurn were well below their best and it hurt.

To be fair to Glassy, a couple of Bradshaw's goals came when he was on someone else (Spangher I think), and one was complete arse. But to be completely fair, if Bradshaw had his kicking boots on in the first half he could have finished with 9.

Saw Glassy heading to the team bus later and he was limping pretty heavily on his right foot. He said it was nothing, hopefully he's right because he's got a big job on Pav next week.

Woosha abruptly decided mid-match that the experiment with Brown as a forward was over. Fair enough, but I'm not sure Schofield was the best replacement. Our forward line is completely disfunctional, there's no blocking and helping out on leads etc. Doesn't help when the ball is continually bombed in.

Positives - I thought both Hams and Stevo acquitted themselves pretty well. Umm, not much else to take out of that game.

 

[Avalor]

Positives - I thought both Hams and Stevo acquitted themselves pretty well. Umm, not much else to take out of that game.

Nik Nat's goal at the 50 metre mark was a positive - who said he couldn't kick?

 

[bali-dog]

NN's kicking and ruck skills have improved heaps since last season when other teams and commentators were snidely saying he's raw talent,but has a long way to go learning footy..had intensive work over preseason..just looks lanky+shanky at the mo..but seems to nail them..

ooooh what a depressing rabble today...
we need a midfield,a forward structure,a crumber(act.hams is good), a centre spine, and a semi trailer load of footy smarts..(we need a footy team)(and a coach?)

is it time for conspiracy theories yet..i guess 'sack the coach' posts pretty much cut to the chase..

 

[Hap Hapablap]

build a bridge small child.

small child? thats laughable. the way you act here your iq is probably below a 6 year old.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Nik Nat's goal at the 50 metre mark was a positive - who said he couldn't kick?

I said to my dad when he got that free kick that he wouldn't make the distance. Now can he do that on the run from 55m?

 

[ytpme]

Absolute utter crap

Yea larri...but we are on track, aren't we larri. Tell me larri we are on track, hey larri .larri we are on track, aren't we?

 

[OUT OF BOUNDS]

A glaring issue for me is our inability to apply "ball and all tackles" on the opposition. I lost count the time Sydney were able to release the ball from a tight space to a runner in the open.

Even though our tackle count was high (chasing all day) we very rarely drew a 50/50 or disposal error from our tackles. We seem to tackle at the waist at all costs allowing the opposition to raise the arms and release.

On the other hand we seem to be wrapped up all day thus causing another stoppage and no flow.

This does not solve all our problems but by breaking away from contests at speed the game opens up, forwards lead to more space, players have more time to dispose by foot.

 

[W3llsy]

Agreed OOB.

Tackling is where it all starts. Look at Melbourne - they are on fire and it stems from them laying more tackles than any other team. Think about St Kilda, Geelong, even Freo year to date - their tackling has been awesome yet Melbourne are even better at it.

My issue is not holding tackles - too many runners from Sydney broke tackles and kept running. The ones where we at least held a jumper, forced a handball and stopped the run, whilst creating a turnover opportunity.

Agree we need to get to the point where blokes cannot dispose of the ball when we do hit them, but short term, we at least need to put more pressure on the man and stop the run and carry.

Some names that people are wanting dropped - Both Selwoods, Priddis, Embley, Masten - though all are in our top 8 for tackles and have 35% of our team's tackles between them. Sure there are questions over disposal by all of them, but you take away this tackling power and opposition teams will have it even easier against us.

Some players that have played all/most games need to massively improve here:

Glass - 7
Rosa - 7
Brown - 8
Spangher - 9
Bones - 10
McGinnity - 10
Dalziell - 12