Preview Rd 8 Geelong v Melbourne Sat May 4th 730pm @ MCG

[iameviljez]

Goal kicking.
No reason this early we can't have both for Hawk, the eggs will be ready.

… eggs?

 

[Mangy Carl]

I know there’s hopefully more noise outside of cats fans on Hawkins impact this season. But despite not having as much influence this year he’s still playing a really big role in the forward line. There’s a lot of off ball work he’s doing both physically on defenders and opening space for others plus taking the best key defender away from the play.
He’ll have some games this year where he plays against weaker opponents and finds his form with the ball. Last week he could’ve taken a couple of marks that came his way which may have resulted in scores. They’ll come, Neale has improved a lot this season but we’d see a drop in impact at the moment if he replaced Hawkins.

I re-watched the Carlton game and Hawkins could have easily had 3-4 goals, but seemed to be ignored by teammates on multiple occasions.
Its possible he was actually playing a 'dummy' role, drawing Weitering out of the play and opening holes for other teammates, either way, the forward line efficiency was pretty incredible.

 

[Mr Meow]

My point is more so that at this point - being 7 and 0 - if we drop an H and A game, even against a fellow contender, it’s not the end of the world.

In 2011 and 2022, we used our jump on the H and A seasons to rest and rotate, and have our players cherry ripe by September.

Hawkins does look really poor at the moment. If he’s out of form, or in decline, then I agree that he is still better than Neale. But if he is creaking and sore - week off, no matter who we play.

All out for a win tomorrow and resting a troop or two against Port makes more sense to me. Give Hawkins one last chance at the very least. He may have just hit a dry spell.

 

[Johanpetro]

I re-watched the Carlton game and Hawkins could have easily had 3-4 goals, but seemed to be ignored by teammates on multiple occasions.
Its possible he was actually playing a 'dummy' role, drawing Weitering out of the play and opening holes for other teammates, either way, the forward line efficiency was pretty incredible.

If he could’ve easily had 3-4 goals then wouldn’t we just have given him those easy 3-4 goals?

 

[Mr Meow]

If he could’ve easily had 3-4 goals then wouldn’t we just have given him those easy 3-4 goals?

Easily is an exaggeration but we could've looked for him 8-10 times instead of 4 (Curnow was targeted 18 times, so despite getting 3 goals wasn't that influential really). It's still lower risk going to Cameron/Young or Henry/whoever than Hawkins/Weitering.

Although the one where Henry blazed away with Hawkins 25m out by himself was fairly baffling.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Rohan ‘IN’

Team looks great, an even spread in all areas

Is Cuthrie playing the same position as last week?

 

[Play it Sam]

Rohan ‘IN’

Team looks great, an even spread in all areas

Is Cuthrie playing the same position as last week?

Worth another trot. Ewe love to see it.

 

[PzBlinky]

Not the best game to bring him in for a debut

I think he'd have more impact than Clark in a game like this. I get they're pumping games into him but taking out Danger and Parfitt and bringing him in is a tall ask. Feels like we're conceding the midfield battle before the first siren.

That said, I'm bullish on Clark and from a developmental POV, these kinds of games are great experience for him.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

I re-watched the Carlton game and Hawkins could have easily had 3-4 goals, but seemed to be ignored by teammates on multiple occasions.
Its possible he was actually playing a 'dummy' role, drawing Weitering out of the play and opening holes for other teammates, either way, the forward line efficiency was pretty incredible.

Cameron Ling spoke about this on the Cats podcast actually, where he was sitting watching him from the goal end - Hawk worked Weitering over all night and drew him away from other players as Weitering was worried what Hawkins could do if he came me off his man.

Ling said if it was Neale, Weitering would've been more comfortable coming off his man, which I don't agree with really.

He's obviously playing the team role but it would be nice to see him playing that role whilst bagging two or three. But our team efficiency has been so good up forward so maybe that role is working well.

If there's something we've learned in the past , you can never write off Hawk.

I do get a feeling however that we NEED to play Neale more or he'll leave us. Why not give him a shot down back or in the ruck if he can't play forward yet? Absolutely he's part of our future. We need to fast track and play him.

A bit disappointed Conway can't go up against Gawn too given the 7-0 position we are in.

 

[Smurph18]

Tipping Dempsey to be the sub here. Managing his game time a little bit and give Clark a full game (or until he is subbed off)

 

[Zouz Kitty]

MOC out, i can finally rest.

Also not sure what Mannagh did to get in the Chris Scott bad books, we didnt draft him to sit in the VFL.

Not doing a good enough job, washing Scotty’s car?

 

[supahoops]

Port Adelaide looked hopeless tonight. And Rozee, Georgiardies, Marshall injured. Good chance next week at GMHBA stadium for Geelong to try some of the players burning up the VFL.

I love seeing our VFL boys step up but I’m more than happy to keep our foot on the throat.

Cameron Ling spoke about this on the Cats podcast actually, where he was sitting watching him from the goal end - Hawk worked Weitering over all night and drew him away from other players as Weitering was worried what Hawkins could do if he came me off his man.

Ling said if it was Neale, Weitering would've been more comfortable coming off his man, which I don't agree with really.

He's obviously playing the team role but it would be nice to see him playing that role whilst bagging two or three. But our team efficiency has been so good up forward so maybe that role is working well.

If there's something we've learned in the past , you can never write off Hawk.

I do get a feeling however that we NEED to play Neale more or he'll leave us. Why not give him a shot down back or in the ruck if he can't play forward yet? Absolutely he's part of our future. We need to fast track and play him.

A bit disappointed Conway can't go up against Gawn too given the 7-0 position we are in.

If Neale was consistently kicking 4,5,6 in the Magoos you could understand him wanting to leave. But he’s not. Still learning the caper, building his body and has two future hall of famers ahead of him who are both closer to the end than the middle, let alone the start. Clear path for him, our game style suits him to a tee and he’d be mad to leave if he had any sense.

 

[Mangy Carl]

If he could’ve easily had 3-4 goals then wouldn’t we just have given him those easy 3-4 goals?

Hence the "being ignored by teammates" part..

On multiple occasions he had several yards on Weitering and could have been a very easy 20m hit up, but was ignored, or had the clear back position and 20-30m behind him and was ignored.
On days when Hawkins bags 3-4, Duncan/Miers/Danger etc hit him up when these opportunities arise. It didn't happen on Saturday.

I reckon that the team, knowing Hawkins has had a few quiet ones, will look to gift him an easy one or two tomorrow night. Just as Hawkins has done for teammates in the past..

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

I love seeing our VFL boys step up but I’m more than happy to keep our foot on the throat.

If Neale was consistently kicking 4,5,6 in the Magoos you could understand him wanting to leave. But he’s not. Still learning the caper, building his body and has two future hall of famers ahead of him who are both closer to the end than the middle, let alone the start. Clear path for him, our game style suits him to a tee and he’d be mad to leave if he had any sense.

We play Neale in the firsts he will absolutely be kicking 2-3 goals a game straight up with the quality of entries inside 50 though. He already kicked three in his first game this season.

 

[Play it Sam]

I love seeing our VFL boys step up but I’m more than happy to keep our foot on the throat.

If Neale was consistently kicking 4,5,6 in the Magoos you could understand him wanting to leave. But he’s not. Still learning the caper, building his body and has two future hall of famers ahead of him who are both closer to the end than the middle, let alone the start. Clear path for him, our game style suits him to a tee and he’d be mad to leave if he had any sense.

The Club manage development game time and expectations of players splendidly, are now famous for it.

I can't remember someone with so much potential leaving, Kelly who had personal issues maybe. Lincoln Mc Carthy (as it turns out) who had mad injury issues we were patient with. A few premature exits debatable, maybe Menzel, Motlop, Chapman, Johnson. Historically one or two, going back to Wade, All who had plenty of game time.
A few that didn't proceed from the VFL, maybe Aarron Black, you can name others.

Neale would have been given every reassurance he'll get his moments in the sun.

I'm gagging to see Hawk do well against Melbourne, the team who came seriously sniffing around Hawk when contract talks appeared to have stalled last year. Hope he Sticks it up em for another time in 12 months.

 

[supahoops]

We play Neale in the firsts he will absolutely be kicking 2-3 goals a game straight up with the quality of entries inside 50 though. He already kicked three in his first game this season.

I’d be a chance of kicking 3 against North. His time will come.

 

[cats_09]

I do get a feeling however that we NEED to play Neale more or he'll leave us. Why not give him a shot down back or in the ruck if he can't play forward yet? Absolutely he's part of our future. We need to fast track and play him.

If Neale is struggling to break into the forward line with our currently available players, who exactly would he be pushing out of our defensive unit to get a game?

If anything, our defensive is even more solid than our forward line

And as for a spot in the ruck - if it's not Conway it'll be Stanley or Blicavs. Only if depleted in that area would we likely see Neale get a gig as a starting ruck, but not sure it's really something we'd want

 

[Hamingja]

My point is more so that at this point - being 7 and 0 - if we drop an H and A game, even against a fellow contender, it’s not the end of the world.

In 2011 and 2022, we used our jump on the H and A seasons to rest and rotate, and have our players cherry ripe by September.

Hawkins does look really poor at the moment. If he’s out of form, or in decline, then I agree that he is still better than Neale. But if he is creaking and sore - week off, no matter who we play.

These next two games are pretty big against Melbourne and Port. If we win both we would effectively be 3 matches and percentage inside the top 4. Mess around with the team from there.

 

[moond0g]

I'm not having a go at Tomahawk, I'm just suggesting he is down on form. I greatly admire Hawkins for his stellar career. However, I am having a go at the people who think it is all part of a master plan where his primary goal is to be a decoy so others can kick goals. And you are right, I was being sarcastic.

100%

I don't know why you can't say 'he's not in great form currently' AND that 'he's been a great of the competition and will likely play a large part in any premiership push we have this year'. The idea that he's playing decoy seems very strange. You wouldn't get Danger to tag someone.

It's not dire straits. The Brisbane game was particularly hard for key forwards, and he has struggled against Carlton previously. But I think everyone would be hoping he lifts his output in the weeks ahead.

 

[iameviljez]

These next two games are pretty big against Melbourne and Port. If we win both we would effectively be 3 matches and percentage inside the top 4. Mess around with the team from there.

From 7-0, if we go anything less than 9-6 as required to get a top four spot, we have bigger issues.

 

[moond0g]

My point is more so that at this point - being 7 and 0 - if we drop an H and A game, even against a fellow contender, it’s not the end of the world.

In 2011 and 2022, we used our jump on the H and A seasons to rest and rotate, and have our players cherry ripe by September.

Hawkins does look really poor at the moment. If he’s out of form, or in decline, then I agree that he is still better than Neale. But if he is creaking and sore - week off, no matter who we play.

To me the obvious comparison is 2019 vs. 2022.

In 2019 we started fantastic and were 11-1 at the bye. But then ran out of gas and didn't win consecutive games for the rest of the year. Still ended up finishing top, but got knocked out in the prelim.

in 2022 we were 5-4 after round 9, but then went undefeated for the rest of the year and importantly were proactively managing/resting players throughout the second half of the year. We were willing to lose a game here or there to make sure we were cherry ripe for September (we just happened to be good enough to win every game while resting players)

As Chris Scott says, it's not who you play, it's when you play them. It's about being in the best form possible at the right time of year (i.e., September). We're in the fortunate position of being able to spend more time focusing on the end of the year because we've banked wins early. It would be silly to not use that as an advantage.

 

[Play it Sam]

To me the obvious comparison is 2019 vs. 2022.

In 2019 we started fantastic and were 11-1 at the bye. But then ran out of gas and didn't win consecutive games for the rest of the year. Still ended up finishing top, but got knocked out in the prelim.

in 2022 we were 5-4 after round 9, but then went undefeated for the rest of the year and importantly were proactively managing/resting players throughout the second half of the year. We were willing to lose a game here or there to make sure we were cherry ripe for September (we just happened to be good enough to win every game while resting players)

As Chris Scott says, it's not who you play, it's when you play them. It's about being in the best form possible at the right time of year (i.e., September). We're in the fortunate position of being able to spend more time focusing on the end of the year because we've banked wins early. It would be silly to not use that as an advantage.

All true, and something all other teams now attempt.
That it's not just form, but injured players who affect that form, and subsequent wins, goes without saying.
Have a gander at Mr Meow's excellent thread tracking past and current injuries.

Cause for 2024 optimism: (Unsurprising) correlation between injury number and win rate in season 2023

I was going to continue to post this in the trade/FA thread to follow up on my week by week tabulation. But it somewhat spams the thread from its central topics. There is a bit of debate around to what degree accumulation of injuries (including those game-breaking in-game injuries) derailed...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[dazbroncos]

This word " Managed " I don't understand.. as the 2 players who are Managed are listed as Emergencies... Wouldn't you not list them at all to give them a rest/Managed

I think Managed is giving them.a week off

i think Kingy said it effects their pay structure for match payments etc.
Being dropped is treated differently to managed and rested.

GO Catters

 

[Lana]

i think Kingy said it effects their pay structure for match payments etc.
Being dropped is treated differently to managed and rested.

GO Catters

I'm not sure how it works now but there used to be a very favourable cap allowance for players getting match payments when being injured, which in hindsight was manipulatable to fill out your list structure so long as you can lure the players.

 

[Chinacats]

Haven’t read the discussion about the teams, so sorry if I’m repeating, but the management of Parfit is an interesting one since Paddy will be out. Scotty really backing in the young bulls in bruhn, Bowes and Clark…against their mids…… I’m backing them in!