NFL Relocations and League Expansion

[Exe Gesis]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

Which parts the NFL should borrow...

Unlimited Motion at the snap.
No fair catch rule.
Kicking team advancing the ball rule.
Open field kicking.
The Rouge.

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

I have often wondered if the CFL and NFL would ever consider rules harmonization. I wonder which parts of the respective games would be adopted.

Without knowing much about CFL, I am sure I'd prefer to keep four downs. I reckon I'd prefer to keep the narrower field (thought perhaps a compromise would be ok). I'd probably prefer to keep the players in motion limited a la the American game.

But which parts of CFL does the NFL "absolutely need to have"?

This is a hard thing to answer. In my view the NFL is players playing at 50-60% trying not to get injured so as to risk shortening their careers & hence their earning potential. Coaches are conservative & the overall mood is of being professional. The CFL on the other hand is still a game. Players are earning $CDN 40-300000, so it is still a game to them. They try things & stuff up. Kicks at goal miss. Players get intercepted. It is so much more fun to watch as a result.

I found this on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League#CFL.E2.80.93NFL_comparisons

Currently, the difference in average salaries between the CFL and NFL is significant, with only a handful of CFL players making more than the NFL minimum.

There is a significant difference in talent between the two leagues due to style of play, CFL teams often recruit skilled players who would be considered undersized by NFL standards. For this reason, there are few players who have played in both leagues, and even fewer who have achieved success in both leagues.

This sums things up nicely I think.

You will get people (Torontonians who want to think they are Americans after all & 'want to play with the big boys') saying Canada should scrap the 3 downs & play American football. Then Canada would lose what is idiosyncratically theirs & the CFL would suddenly become a poorer quality imitation on the NFL.

The fact that the CFL has the 3 downs,the bigger football, the 1 points after kicks into the endzone, the massive endzones etc etc makes it different to the NFL. And in my view makes it way way way more fun to watch.

It is very sad we never get to see it on Australian TV. Because I think if people were explained that it was different to American football, they would start to like it & see it for what it really is, a cult league with cult fans.

As a former Montréal resident & regular on les Gradins du Sud at Stade Molson all I can say is "Vive le LCF!"

JF

 

[Marklar_33]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

Can you explain the last 2 GG? Not aware of what they are...

 

[drd23]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

Can you explain the last 2 GG? Not aware of what they are...

Without looking either of them up, I assume 'open field kicking' is the ability to kick a drop goal at any time

The 'rouge' is a single point gained/earned for kicking the ball out of the back of the EZ

I'm sure someone who actually knows the rules will correct me if Im wrong

 

[drd23]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

It would kill the Argos & the cult competition that is the CFL, which as a former resident of Canada I am steadfastly against.

The average Torontonian thinks they are above the CFL & the Argos in any case. But with the Rogers Centre only able to hold 50000 it is still way way smaller than Rich Stadium.

This is the impression I get when I read opinions from people from Toronto about the potential for the Bills to move there full time.

AFAIC recall the argument is basically that Toronto isnt really big on the CFL, and while a move to Toronto would kill the Argos, it wouldn't kill the CFL because its heartland is further north and central.

We'll see what happens when Ralph Wilson dies because he has no succession plan and has said that the team will be sold to the highest bidder upon his death. The group out in LA (AEG) might buy it and relocate them (although it would be a little odd), they might move to Toronto or a rich upstate NY person might buy them and keep them in Buffalo (although I think the last is the least likely)

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

You saw a bunch of open-field kicks in that youtube video linked above and again below...
It also can be drop-kicks for a FG during a play. Like a 20 yard reception, then they lateral it about, then someone goes for a drop-kick for a FG.

[youtube]d5BFaykcxGg[/youtube]


A rouge is earned from kicking the ball into the endzone and the other team not advancing it out of there, or if the ball is kicked dead out the back of the endzone. Only time you can't score a rouge is from a kick-off, or from a FG attempt if the ball hits the posts.

Again in that video above, the offense missed the FG needing only 1 pt to win the game. The defense had to try to punt the ball out of there or concede a rouge. Then the offense tried to kick it back in there again from open-field play to try to score a rouge after it had been cleared originally.

A rule I'd love NFL to adopt is from the NCAA where a missed 2 PT conversion can be returned for a 'defensive 2 pt conversion'.

 

[drd23]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

A rule I'd love NFL to adopt is from the NCAA where a missed 2 PT conversion can be returned for a 'defensive 2 pt conversion'.

Was that rule removed recently? I vaguely remember reading that Ed Reed had scored on a pick during a 2pt conversion

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

I don't think that rule has ever been in the NFL. Only canada and ncaa.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

We'll see what happens when Ralph Wilson dies because he has no succession plan and has said that the team will be sold to the highest bidder upon his death. The group out in LA (AEG) might buy it and relocate them (although it would be a little odd), they might move to Toronto or a rich upstate NY person might buy them and keep them in Buffalo (although I think the last is the least likely)

Well none of those statements are true. As stated previously, anyone with half a brain has a succession plan in their will. He's a lifetime businessman, and only an abject moron wouldn't have a succession plan in place. He just hasn't made it known to the public. So when the media says "no succession plan" they really mean "we don't know his succession plan."

And again, he never said "sell to highest bidder". All he said was that the team would be sold. His will could say, "sell to highest local bidder." We just don't know. Bottom line is that the media shouldn't speculate on things they have no idea about.

 

[drd23]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

^ Im just taking the word of the senior sports writer for The Buffalo News

When Wilson is gone, all bets are off. If he dies, the Bills would be at or near the top of any list for possible relocation. Wilson has no known succession plan. He plans to have the team auctioned to the highest bidder. It's hard to imagine the top bid coming from someone who intends to keep the Bills in this market.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article459671.ece

 

[manureid]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

That is some crazy shit!!!

 

[ERead]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

Which parts the NFL should borrow...

Unlimited Motion at the snap.
No fair catch rule.
Kicking team advancing the ball rule.
Open field kicking.
The Rouge.

On these points:

1. I'd be worried about losing structure. I like how the field goes relatively still and quiet before the snap.
2. Makes sense if you also get the no yards penalty.
3. Totally right.
4. I'd be worried about losing structure again but it could be ok. There would have to be tactical reasons for it and not just panic or aimless kicking.
5. I can't see the appeal. Perhaps just too accustomed to how NFL games play out.

I wonder if the NFL has ever produced videos justifying each of the rules in place?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

If there was an intent to merge the games, then a genuine attempt would have to be made. Meaning various bunch of Canadian rules would have to fit in, not just one thing, otherwise it'd be a takeover and destruction of a variant form of gridiron.

Those I listed above are the most practical applications of Canadian football that could fit into the American game, not superficial things like the width of the field, 12 players, or 3 downs.

* Unlimited Motion -- the stillness before the snap is fine, but I think this is something that could work in the NFL, bringing another tactical layer which is what unlimited motion does.

* Yes, with the no fair catch you'd tie it in with related sub-clauses like no yards penatly.

* Yep

* Gotta admit it'd be interesting to see some big OLman being able to show off his punting skills. There's a tactical reason for open-field kicking which is the Rouge.

* Rouges add an extra scoring element, both tactical and entertaining. Much better than the bore of touchbacks, plus coupled with the no fair catch rule.

Plus, I'd add the defensive 2 pt conversion too.

I'm not sure about the NFL videos justifying rules. American football itself has always had one set of fundamental rules followed thruout high school to college to professional levels. There are little variations from level to level, but the essence is the same. Same with Canadian football. Where the two games differ in the idea of merging them is where you'd look for things that could fit into the NFL game as is. It's a lot easier to port the Canadian game into the American game, than it would be to merge the American game into the Canadian game.

The Canadian game for instance is established on smaller faster players, smaller OL/DL/LBs etc, far less about blocking, blitzing, and the trenches. This is due to...

- In Canada, the LOS distance is a full 1 yard apart whereas in American football it's the length of the ball. That shorter distance predicates a whole different style of game, bigger trenchmen needed and that 3 yards and a cloud of dust basis, defensive ends and blitzing pressure. A perfect example of this is how in America the Tight-End position came to be, and how it came to be so important, whilst in Canada the extra slot-back (the 12th player) came to be and became so important, tight-ends rare and unimportant.
- The unlimited motion + players able to move forwards at the snap, having a running start.
- There's only a 1 yard buffer for defensive players to make contact, unlike american football's 5 yards buffer.
- The wider field.
- The three downs.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: Los Angeles - Bid for an NFL Team

^ Im just taking the word of the senior sports writer for The Buffalo News

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article459671.ece

Yeah that's what the media does when they don't know something....they speculate. Ralph Wilson has said a million times the team will be sold because his family doesn't want to take over the running of an NFL franchise. But this whole "highest bidder" thing is media speculation. If Ralph Wilson really said that, how come nobody can come up with a quote of him saying it? Because he never did.

He is extremely concerned with his legacy, and he wouldn't screw over the people of Western NY like that. If there was a gun to my head and I had to predict the exact words of his will/testament, I would guess there would be wording that involved selling to the highest local group.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

Would like to see 1 point scored on its own in American Football, so a score of 1-0 would be possible.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

It looks like the Los Angeles Downtown stadium took its biggest step ever toward becoming a reality. There is sense of doom coming out of San Diego. After sitting on their thumbs for 8 years without making progress on a new stadium, we are most likely seeing the last ever year of the Chargers in San Diego.

 

[Chadwiko]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

It looks like the Los Angeles Downtown stadium took its biggest step ever toward becoming a reality. There is sense of doom coming out of San Diego. After sitting on their thumbs for 8 years without making progress on a new stadium, we are most likely seeing the last ever year of the Chargers in San Diego.

haha. No. The Chargers won't be going anywhere.

If any team is going to relocate to LA it will more than likely be the Bills. Vikings are an outside chance too.

 

[drd23]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

Dont be so quick to dismiss Chadwiko.

Citing "informed knowledgeable people," ESPN's Adam Schefter says the #Chargers & #Raiders are the most likely NFLteams to move to L.A.

http://twitter.com/evansilva/status/101323769863348224

People in the States, and LA in particular, think that the Chargers are certainly possible. Especially so given that they can't even get the government to consider a new stadium in SD, let alone vote on it. Couple that with the fact that the Chargers have an out in Feb 2012 from their current stadium deal and its certainly a possibility

 

[ERead]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

And yet, don't the majority of LA people actually want the Rams back?

 

[drd23]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

There are plenty of Chargers fans in LA as their games are regularly shown there.

The Rams arent likely to go back to LA (even though I would love to see the old school Rams uni back full time which would probably happen if they did) because of their new ownership (at least thats what Rams fans say, even those that were originally LA Rams fans)

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

was watching the niners-saints preseason game, and they made mention of how the santa clara stadium seems to be moving ahead.

seems the nfl cba has made mention they will help fund one norcal stadium, so if that's the case, raiders odds of moving back to los angeles rise....tho davis will not allow a move if he doesn't retain full control

 

[drd23]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

I thought that it was becoming more and more likely that the Raiders and 49ers share a stadium like the Giants/Jets?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

The NFL is suggesting they will only help fund one norcal stadium as part of getting the raiders and niners to share it.

The Raiders want to rebuild the Oakland Coliseum on the existing site as part of getting the Niners and Raiders to share one stadium.

The Niners want to move ahead with the Santa Clara stadium, with or without the Raiders.

Oakland therefore either persists in Oakland, using the old site and stadium and ignores LA. Or they walk with tails between legs to Santa Clara. Or they move to LA where the NFL wants two teams to go, where Davis still believes he 'owns' the right to.

The problem is Davis also knows that leaving Oakland in the first place caused a problem in the Bay Area, and might actually want to avoid leaving and causing another drama.

The Niners were shit at the time, pre-Walsh, and leaving occurred same time as the Niners became a powerhouse. Alienated Raider Bay Area fans took up the Niners as their team, many have never forgiven Davis, many didn't care. But the Bay Area ended up being split 60:40 in favor of the Niners due to that move. And when they returned to Oakland it still didn't heal the wounds...because Davis' attitude at the time was this is my franchise I'll do what i want with it, the fans can shut up, which was the worst thing he ever said.

But if the Niners refuse to go along with the Raiders plan of rebuilding the Coliseum as a shared stadium, then the odds of Davis going to LA do increase. But he will never move if he doesn't have full control of the team, will not accept plans discussed where the LA stadium builders get a share or full ownership of a team.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: L.A., Relocations, & League Expansion

haha. No. The Chargers won't be going anywhere.

If any team is going to relocate to LA it will more than likely be the Bills. Vikings are an outside chance too.

Yeah clearly you aren't keeping up with the news. San Diego needs a miracle at this point to keep their team. San Diegans don't want to publicly fund any stadium, the county can't afford it, the team ownership doesn't want to fully pay for it, and they haven't been able to pick a location for 15 years. Topped off by the fact that it'll only cost $26 to end their lease at Quallcomm Stadium.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Re: 2011 Pre-Season Games - Discussion

With the amount of players that will get released in the next couple of weeks, roughly 40 per team (1280 players), and the amount of back-ups that hardly see time apart from special teams, and a good portion of those players being NFL-caliber, there's enough there to start up a rival league, or, more practically, there's enough there for the NFL to establish another, say, 8 teams.

What do you think? Another division each conference with four teams in each. I reckon there's so much 'good enough' talent going around beyond these 53 cuts, to make for competitive football teams.

If the NFL wants to increase revenue i think they should seriously look at such an expansion. There's certainly plenty of 'good enough' football stadiums around the country to handle them.