Reported On SEN - Blues In More Trouble

[Sin City]

The worst part about the whole culture problem at Carlton is that while the players will be punished in accordance with AFLPA guidelines, behind closed doors the powers that be are telling them that 'we know what you did wasn't that bad, hell we used to do it every weekend'. Unless this WEAK-GUTTED BULLSHIT stops, the Carlton football club will be clinging to 1995 for many many many more years to come.

How would you know what gets said behind closed doors?

Once again making assumptions with no idea of the truth.

 

[40yearBLUE]

How would you know what gets said behind closed doors?

Once again making assumptions with no idea of the truth.

Its a fair assumption to draw. The club would be fully aware of the size of the problem they face and as a poster earlier suggested, it appears they hoped the problem would travel north with Fev.

They would have known about the boat trip and would have/should have discussed it with the leadership group that was also on the trip. Surely, one of the points discussed would have been, you are out as a group and collectively as well as individually you are representatives of the club at all times, behave accordingly?

Do you think if this was addressed properly that this would have happened?

So either we have a management that didnt want to address this issue forcefully enough or worse, we have a group that having been warned how to behave ignored the warning and basically scoffed at the managements authority.

Either way we are damned. Either scenario is a disgrace and a far more serious problem than many here want to acknowledge.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Its a fair assumption to draw. The club would be fully aware of the size of the problem they face and as a poster earlier suggested, it appears they hoped the problem would travel north with Fev.

They would have known about the boat trip and would have/should have discussed it with the leadership group that was also on the trip. Surely, one of the points discussed would have been, you are out as a group and collectively as well as individually you are representatives of the club at all times, behave accordingly?

Do you think if this was addressed properly that this would have happened?

So either we have a management that didnt want to address this issue forcefully enough or worse, we have a group that having been warned how to behave ignored the warning and basically scoffed at the managements authority.

Either way we are damned. Either scenario is a disgrace and a far more serious problem than many here want to acknowledge.

Thumbing your nose at advice suggests that they have no respect for those in charge cos those in charge are soft...

 

[Sin City]

Robertson seems like the bloke who needs to be taken down a peg or two anyway, although people call is ADD

Mitch Robinson is a head case on and off the field, if footy didn't come along he'd be absolutely stuffed, this bloke makes Fev look like Einstein. His mouth matches his ego and more often than not he finds trouble. Whenever he goes back to Tassie there are blokes lining up to take his head off. It has nothing to do with other people being jealous or whatever its got everything to do with Mitch Robinson. There is a reason why he slipped to 40 in the draft when on talent he was top 20, he is a headcase of the highest order.

MR is a headcase.

M.R. Okay he was always a head case and may always be.
I'm not sure what his future holds, but the notion of he pulling his head in, is very much against his nature.

A few good posters on here have been way too quick to judge Mitch given that it now looks like he may be innocent. His brother reads this, how do you guys think Mitch would feel knowing that supporters turn their back ob him so quickly?

 

[Sin City]

Its a fair assumption to draw.

it is not a fair assumption to make because the guy comments as if he sits in on everything that gets said at the club. He has no idea what gets said behind closed doors. His lack of respect towards a premiership captain and current president who has come out in public and said he will come down hard on them is a disgrace.

 

[40yearBLUE]

it is not a fair assumption to make because the guy comments as if he sits in on everything that gets said at the club. He has no idea what gets said behind closed doors. His lack of respect towards a premiership captain and current president who has come out in public and said he will come down hard on them is a disgrace.

I dont know about snoozers posting history, i dont care, this is not about the messengers it is about the message.

I made the same assumptions. I dont think I am disrespectful to the club or management. Hell I cop flack most of the time for being to apologetic for the decisions they make and being too supportive of the club.

We have a serious issue here. So serious that it again threatens our viability as a club. If you think I am overstating the issue, how do you think we will go winning 17 as a pennyless club that sponsors wont come near?

I have called for sackings over this and been assused of heavy handedness and over reaction. Hows that call starting to look now?

If you listen to the tone of the clubs management now it is getting to that. Swann, Ratts, Sticks are talking of "serious consequences" when training resumes. If by serious consequences they mean extra laps in the scorching summer heat, then we have an even bigger problem. If this story keeps rolling out the way it has, it will ramp up the pressure on just how serious those consequences get.

Something has to get serious. Serious men facing serious problems have to make serious decisions, or this will just keep on happening as we slide back into mediocrity, but with no white knight to save us next time.

 

[Sin City]

I dont know about snoozers posting history, i dont care, this is not about the messengers it is about the message.

I made the same assumptions. I dont think I am disrespectful to the club or management. Hell I cop flack most of the time for being to apologetic for the decisions they make and being too supportive of the club.

We have a serious issue here. So serious that it again threatens our viability as a club. If you think I am overstating the issue, how do you think we will go winning 17 as a pennyless club that sponsors wont come near?

I have called for sackings over this and been assused of heavy handedness and over reaction. Hows that call starting to look now?

If you listen to the tone of the clubs management now it is getting to that. Swann, Ratts, Sticks are talking of "serious consequences" when training resumes. If by serious consequences they mean extra laps in the scorching summer heat, then we have an even bigger problem. If this story keeps rolling out the way it has, it will ramp up the pressure on just how serious those consequences get.

Something has to get serious. Serious men facing serious problems have to make serious decisions, or this will just keep on happening as we slide back into mediocrity, but with no white knight to save us next time.

Not denying there is a serious issue, but what I was talking about was Snoozers assumptions of what Kernahan will do.

You say you've come under fire for being too apologetic over club decisions yet this time Snoozer is making assumptions well before Kernahan has even spoken to the group or made any final decisions. It's unfair to judge anyone so early.

As for your heavy handedness, no new facts have come out about Walker or Houlihan, I will admit now that the younger player I was referring to Walker looking after in the other thread has been named, despite Snoozer telling me i didn't have any facts, so once again it looks like walker was trying to do the right thing most of the night and has been very unlucky.

 

[jimsta10]

i dont really care what people think of Mitch, (nor should Mitch) as long as he is professional on and off the field, he is on track of being an asset to the CFC. those who are judging him now, are no better than people writing worthless articles for the papers. he is young, motivated, and needs to be given a chance.

as for the latest heraldsun article, not sure why his picture is still there, no mention of his name anywhere within the article, from what i have read the club has not confirmed that he did anything wrong, so why are people so quick to judge?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Not denying there is a serious issue, but what I was talking about was Snoozers assumptions of what Kernahan will do.

You say you've come under fire for being too apologetic over club decisions yet this time Snoozer is making assumptions well before Kernahan has even spoken to the group or made any final decisions. It's unfair to judge anyone so early.

As for your heavy handedness, no new facts have come out about Walker or Houlihan, I will admit now that the younger player I was referring to Walker looking after in the other thread has been named, despite Snoozer telling me i didn't have any facts, so once again it looks like walker was trying to do the right thing most of the night and has been very unlucky.

Sorry but I dont cop that. Where was Walker when the other players were handcuffing or otherwise restraining Casboult? Where was Walker as they plied him with alcohol even though he was reluctant to drink them? Where was Walker when the bullying and peer pressure was starting?

Evil deeds only occur when good men do nothing. Heard that before? And if you think evil deed is a bit strong, what if young Levi fell into a coma as a result of the massive dose of poison his body was not used to, would it be evil then? Would it be evil if this turned into a manslaughter inquiry? Perhaps only good luck prevented this, because it certainly was not good management.

And if you think I am exaggerating, take a visit to a casualty department and ask some nurses what they see on a regular basis. Have you heard of compartment disease? It is basically blood clots that form from pressure applied to a part of the body, some know it as deep vain thrombosis. This is a common result of drunkeness where drunks pass out so deeply, their head on their arm causes a clot that often results in loss of the arm or nerve damage that reduces the effectiveness of the arm, how would Levis career go with his arm amputated at the elbow? From being forced to participate (either physically or psychologically it is still force) in a stupid drinking game, that he otherwise would not do.

Too much? Time to get hold of the real costs of club culture. And if you think I am angry now, wait until this really does happen to someone on one of these bullsh1t bonding exersizes. ENOUGH!

 

[40yearBLUE]

Not denying there is a serious issue, but what I was talking about was Snoozers assumptions of what Kernahan will do.

You say you've come under fire for being too apologetic over club decisions yet this time Snoozer is making assumptions well before Kernahan has even spoken to the group or made any final decisions. It's unfair to judge anyone so early.

As for your heavy handedness, no new facts have come out about Walker or Houlihan, I will admit now that the younger player I was referring to Walker looking after in the other thread has been named, despite Snoozer telling me i didn't have any facts, so once again it looks like walker was trying to do the right thing most of the night and has been very unlucky.

Sticks, as any senior manager is, will be judged on his effectiveness at solving this issue. So far the results dont look good. But, his test is coming now. Having shown the courage of conviction with the Fev sacking the test is now to follow it through. I think he and the club will do that.

But so far you would have to agree we are a long way from solving the culture problem that has beset the club for some time and on that score the buck stops with Sticks. I wish him luck, he is going to need it, along with a serious dose of courage. I hope we see the results fast.

 

[Sin City]

Sorry but I dont cop that. Where was Walker when the other players were handcuffing or otherwise restraining Casboult? Where was Walker as they plied him with alcohol even though he was reluctant to drink them? Where was Walker when the bullying and peer pressure was starting?

Evil deeds only occur when good men do nothing. Heard that before? And if you think evil deed is a bit strong, what if young Levi fell into a coma as a result of the massive dose of poison his body was not used to, would it be evil then? Would it be evil if this turned into a manslaughter inquiry? Perhaps only good luck prevented this, because it certainly was not good management.

And if you think I am exaggerating, take a visit to a casualty department and ask some nurses what they see on a regular basis. Have you heard of compartment disease? It is basically blood clots that form from pressure applied to a part of the body, some know it as deep vain thrombosis. This is a common result of drunkeness where drunks pass out so deeply, their head on their arm causes a clot that often results in loss of the arm or nerve damage that reduces the effectiveness of the arm, how would Levis career go with his arm amputated at the elbow? From being forced to participate (either physically or psychologically it is still force) in a stupid drinking game, that he otherwise would not do.

Too much? Time to get hold of the real costs of club culture. And if you think I am angry now, wait until this really does happen to someone on one of these bullsh1t bonding exersizes. ENOUGH!

When was the last time an AFL player had compartment disease? Yes you are exagerating, not that i really have a problem with that, most of us can read between the lines in your posts now and weed out most of the crap. You've filled the whole post up with what if's, things that didn't happen at all.

Casboult was not the young player i was talking about, i don't remember reading that he was reluctant to drink with them or anythign about bullying, you are lying.

You can take that crap to the HUN, I don't fall for it. Walker can't be in control of the whole group during something like that, but on the facts we have he's done not a lot wrong at all.

 

[40yearBLUE]

When was the last time an AFL player had compartment disease? Yes you are exagerating, not that i really have a problem with that, most of us can read between the lines in your posts now and weed out most of the crap. You've filled the whole post up with what if's, things that didn't happen at all.

Casboult was not the young player i was talking about, i don't remember reading that he was reluctant to drink with them or anythign about bullying, you are lying.

You can take that crap to the HUN, I don't fall for it. Walker can't be in control of the whole group during something like that, but on the facts we have he's done not a lot wrong at all.

Sorry I must have missed the memo telling us the moment you are recruited to an AFL club, diseases that afflict the normal community you have immunity from.

Compartment disease as a result of alcohol induced coma is a common occurrence, that it has not happened to an AFL player yet so therefore an exaggeration is staggering to read from you. I suggest you go out and educate yourself, you talk about others talking about stuff they dont know about, how about you practice what you preach then. It is real, it happens everyday and will happen to an AFL player if this behavior continues, it is just a matter of time. I dont much care if you want to live your life in denial of the realities but dont for a minute think your accusations of exaggeration or lying will have any truck with me.

And you also seem to have a gross misunderstanding of what peer pressure, informed consent and force mean. The player was handcuffed or otherwise restrained and "forced" to participate in a drinking game. If a person would not otherwise participate and is confronted by 30 new colleagues in vairous levels of "encouragement" some more forcefully then others, this is commonly known as bullying and a lack of informed consent. Your ignorance of such practices speaks to your general lack of understanding of just how serious this issue is and your denial despite your words to the contrary that a serious problem exists, reinforces this view.

But sadly we need a tragedy for you to fully accept and understand the problem. Even sadder is that some of you, perhaps you personally, will still hold out that I am exaggerating.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

So he was sober when got in a brawl with security wearing ONLY underpants

Yeah, apparently we had a Red Hot Chilli Peppers appreciation day at Optus Oval earlier that day. Again, nothing to see here

 

[mediumsizered]

Its quite possible that the cruise operators refused to serve those already intoxicated any more drinks, in other words they practiced RSA. At the same time, it is also quite possible that these players had drinks brought for them by their 'mates'. The players have no-one to blame but themselves. They organised the cruise and they went to other venues after being kicked off the cruise for being drunk. In the end they are grown men and are responsible for their own actions.

It would have been very easy to cut off the supply of alcohol whilst on board the boat. You cut off the supply & those who are already affected by alcohol can't get any more intoxicated.

If licencees enforced RSA the irresponsible drinkers out there would have to buy packaged alcohol & drink it at home, or at a mate's place.

FWIW, I am not defending the Carlton players involved, although I doubt very much there were handcuffs involved with Levi, I am just sick & tired of licensed venues abusing their licences in the name of making money & then when patrons get out of hand, turning to the police & the media looking for support when it all goes pear-shaped. The sooner the relevant authority starts strictly enforcing RSA, the sooner we will start reducing the amount of anti-social behaviour. Here on the Gold Coast we see all the time the effects of unlimited alcohol being served to patrons, but for some reason it is preferable for the authorities to turn a blind eye to what is going on.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Mitch Robinson slid to our pick 40# because many clubs were scared about his attitude and how it would effect the playing group.

I'm sticking by Mitch and I really hope that he pulls his head in.

 

[Snoozer]

it is not a fair assumption to make because the guy comments as if he sits in on everything that gets said at the club. He has no idea what gets said behind closed doors. His lack of respect towards a premiership captain and current president who has come out in public and said he will come down hard on them is a disgrace.

It's a more than fair assumption because of the situation we find the club in...... AGAIN. I have been involved in footy clubs for as long as I care to remember as a player and coach, I know exactly how these things get handled. When incidents of this nature continue to occur, there is no other assumption to draw... they are not being dealt with properly, which equals an indemic culture problem.

The Carlton powerbrokers are a boys club, led by Sticks. These blokes do not discourage the booze culture, as witnessed personally on interstate trips the night before a match.

To see how good Kernahan's skills are in an administrative role, feel free to check out the press conference after the Fevola shit happened. The guy is a dunce, and the wrong person to be president of a footy club. Worst still, because he was a champion of the club, they are all in awe of him... there is nobody there who will stand up to him and tell him how it is, and we end up becoming a bunch of 'yes' men.

 

[falconeyed]

If the handcuffing of Levi was true, then Carlton would not only have to worry about the AFL but also Worksafe OHS rules around bullying, harassment and voilence, I have added the link about bullying in the workplace

https://fac.dhs.vic.gov.au/home.aspx?TabID=content&type=4&contentID=3384#bullying

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Obviously the AFL will have to step in now and wield the big stick to protect the clean living brand.

Alchohol, gambling, obesity, major issues in todays society that must be tackled head on.

ALL are major corporate sponsors of the AFL.
(CUB, Sportsbet, Betfair, the chokky mob, the burger mob, the pie mob)

As if they will do anything, they know where their bread is buttered.

 

[Jef Costello]

If licencees enforced RSA... \

l dont disagree with you and whilst worthy of discussion surely this is a tangent in this context. As a supporter or member aren't you more concerned with what the Carlton players did or didn't do and them taking responsibility for their own actions? And depending on what did happen, the implications regarding your playing group, culture and leadership?

Personally l think it is easy for these things to get blown out of proportion (footy player gets drunk etc). But the reported events, most notably the peer pressure element on Casboult, do seem well over the line.

Let alone the poor management in terms of club image and representation given the recent alcohol dramas of Fevvy.

 

[Mister Carlton]

How will the family day go

I can't wait.

 

[Snoozer]

Not denying there is a serious issue, but what I was talking about was Snoozers assumptions of what Kernahan will do.

You say you've come under fire for being too apologetic over club decisions yet this time Snoozer is making assumptions well before Kernahan has even spoken to the group or made any final decisions. It's unfair to judge anyone so early.

It's not about Kernahan making decisions with this current batch of transgressors... anyone can come up with a punishment. The issue clearly hasn't been handled in the 8 weeks or so since Fevola's departure. Don't you think some of these issues should have been addressed?? Sure Fev was sacked... but was the message really driven home?? I think that's more than enough time to address the issues.... clearly this wasn't done. Ask yourself this; if the media hadn't been all over Fevola like chicken pox, would he have been sacked?? Your answer - No, or course not. The underlying message here from the board is that, as I posted earlier, 'that we know what you did wasn't that bad, hell we used to do it every weekend'. He probably would have been given kudos from within the club, and from his mates, for acting up on TV.

As for your heavy handedness, no new facts have come out about Walker or Houlihan, I will admit now that the younger player I was referring to Walker looking after in the other thread has been named, despite Snoozer telling me i didn't have any facts, so once again it looks like walker was trying to do the right thing most of the night and has been very unlucky.

Hahaha... you're making this up as you go along. Are you sure you don't work for the Herald-Sun?? The facts we do know about Walker were that he was involved in an incident, kicked out of Crown and BANNED!! Sorry, this doesn't happen to innocent parties. How many people do you know have received similar sanctions, for doing nothing wrong? Not many... none? He was pissed up, could not adequately diffuse the situation, got himself involved over his head and paid the price. An error in judgement... that happens to some people when they're drunk. This all happened at 3am the morning after a christmas party which begun at 12noon the day before.

That's 15 hours of solid drinking... Nah.... I'll buy it that Walker did nothing wrong.

 

[Snoozer]

It would have been very easy to cut off the supply of alcohol whilst on board the boat. You cut off the supply & those who are already affected by alcohol can't get any more intoxicated.

If licencees enforced RSA the irresponsible drinkers out there would have to buy packaged alcohol & drink it at home, or at a mate's place.

FWIW, I am not defending the Carlton players involved, although I doubt very much there were handcuffs involved with Levi, I am just sick & tired of licensed venues abusing their licences in the name of making money & then when patrons get out of hand, turning to the police & the media looking for support when it all goes pear-shaped. The sooner the relevant authority starts strictly enforcing RSA, the sooner we will start reducing the amount of anti-social behaviour. Here on the Gold Coast we see all the time the effects of unlimited alcohol being served to patrons, but for some reason it is preferable for the authorities to turn a blind eye to what is going on.

You are not addressing the real issue. RSA or not, their role in the fiasco is minor. They served grog for 3 hours.... the Betts, Houlihan and Walker incidents occurred 12 hours later. Hardly the fault of the cruise operator.

The fact you are arguing that point ad nauseum shows that you are just looking to blame someone else for the problem. You would have heard before that the first step to addressing a problem, is to admit that the problem exists. Blaming others will only see that problem rear its ugly head again, and again, and again................. which conveniently, is what we find happening with the Carlton FC.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

It's pretty hard to show moderation around alcohol,
when every drink you get is free.

Drink Cards, publicity junkets, appearances, sporties nights.
These blokes have never paid for a drink in their lives.

Is it any wonder that there is a binge drinking problem?

 

[Blueboys11]

Who really cares....

Last time i checked when i went to the footy, what a player did at the pub 4 months beforehand didnt really bother me...

Just enjoy the footy. Who cares if they have a few too many off the field. Doesnt hurt anyone

 

[Gabbatoir]

Who really cares....

Last time i checked when i went to the footy, what a player did at the pub 4 months beforehand didnt really bother me...

Just enjoy the footy. Who cares if they have a few too many off the field. Doesnt hurt anyone

Agreed.